Yamaha RX-Z11 or Denon AVC-A1HD

[admin_exported]

No, I am not after one of these units, but I thought I would put this question to all of you. I am assuming most of you out here are from the U.K.

Now, the RRP of the Yamaha DSP-Z11 (on my subject, I have put RX-Z11, as this is the model name assigned to Australia, and I am guessing some other markets, as well) in the UK is 5000GBP, while the Denon AVC-A1HD retails for much less at 3800GBP.

What Hi Fi awarded the award to the Denon AVC-A1HD, I reckon, in part, thanks to its much lower price (although the Yamaha is an 11.2-channel A/V Receiver and part of the extra cost must surely be attributed to the extra amplified channels and processing for those channels).

However, in Australia, after I have converted to GBP, the Yamaha 'Z11 retails for 3288GBP while the Denon AVC-A1HD retailed for 5343GBP but as of 1 January 2009 has now gone up to 6165GBP!

Street price on the Yamaha is somewhere in the 2500GBP region here (after converting from Australian Dollars to GBP), whereas until 31 December 2008, it was possible to get an incredible bargain on the Denon for about 3083GBP. Still, the Denon is significantly more expensive than the Yamaha here, even though the unit retails for a lot more in the UK - and I assume in most other markets.

If you had this type of budget and were after a mega A/V Receiver, and these were your only two options, which would you choose?

Would What Hi Fi have awarded the Yamaha with the award (pardon the pun) instead of the Denon, based on the much cheaper price of the Yamaha?

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Interesting question, I have noticed the same thing here in NZ, that the Z11 is way cheaper than I would expect based on the UK price. Either the UK list price is just a starting point and the street price is much lower, or we are getting a real bargain.

Of course the same thing applies with Japanese cars to some extent, with the Honda Accord priced at BMW levels in the UK. Maybe it's just European protectionism that makes foreign products seem more expensive there.ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Denon products over here are generally way over-priced. It is not just the currency exchange, but it's most likely Audio Product Group's (distributor of Denon in Australia) greed. RRP of Denon products, especially their top-of-the-range products, are absolutely ridiculous.

For example, the Denon AVC-A1HD now retails for AUD$15,000.00.

The flagship Denon AVP-A1HD Surround Processor/Pre-Amplifier now retails for AUD$15,000.00, and the same for the 10-channel POA-A1HD Power Amplifier at AUD$15,000.00 each.

The Yamaha RX-Z11 at a recommended retail price of AUD$7,999.00 is an absolute bargain. Plus, Yamaha is not increasing its RRP on its home theatre range until at least March (its hi-fi gear has had price rises as of 1 January 2009 - like most other brands), meaning that this unit should hopefully sell well.

Honestly, sonically, I am pretty sure the Yamaha has it over the Denon, so for me, it would be one big vote to the Yamaha. Even if the Yamaha retails for the same money, I would pick the Yamaha over the Denon.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

I'd be quite interested in this too...

I bet I can get both cheaper down in Singapore that UK RRP....Just like the Marantz kit.

£2500 for the Z11 is great Dantan ! Where in Aus are you again ?!....I don't really need the amplification though, as we've discussed re 8003 etc...ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I am from Perth, mate, and my friendly retailer (whom I have purchased most of my gear from) will be able to do a really good deal on a 'Z11. If not quite that cheaply, a good price here in Australia wouldn't be more than AUD$6,500.00, anyway.

I would still recommend a dedicated Surround Processor/Pre-Amplifier, although I have been informed that with the Yamaha RX-Z11 (and also the newly-released Z7) that it is possible to completely switch off the Power Amp stage of the Yamaha, when using it only as a Pre-Amp.

SC, I would certainly suggest that you also check out the new Rotel RSP1570 Surround Processor. RRP in Australia is $3,000.00, which appears exceptional value.

Otherwise, NAD is releasing its new HD gear, although pricing is a lot more than its previous non-HD gear. NAD will be releasing the T175HD and M15HD Surround Sound Processors next month, but I don't know when it will eventually lob Down Under.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Hmmmm !

Forgot you were from Perth. My girlfriend is too, and she's overdue a visit....Might be heading that way in the next month or two, depending on work etc....

Will look into some of the other stuff through the day....

How's the Marantz priced there, I presume not as good as Sing ?

ÿ

S

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

The Marantz AV8003 Surround Processor now retails for AUD$5,499.00, while the Marantz MM8003 8-channel Power Amplifier now retails for AUD$4,499.00.

Apparently, it is possible to get from Singapore the Marantz PAIR for less than what we can get for EACH item here in Australia!

I am not particularly impressed with the lack of heft of the MM8003 Power Amplifier, though, that is why I decided to go for the heavy-as-hell NAD M25 Power Amplifier, which has more than enough power for me.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Yep, it's certainly true of the Marantz pair in Sing - I was quoted a price for both equal to the UK RRP of the AV8003 !

ÿ

Sÿ

 

[Anonymous]

It is quite amazing the kind of deals that can be had in Singapore.

Perhaps when my sister and her husband go to Singapore some time this year, I shall get them to check out some shops, and they may end up carting some electronic gear back for me.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Just been looking at the PDF for the Rotel....Looks a good bit of kit, although still a lot of emphasis on video, which I don't really need....

Did you demo the Rotel before you went with the Marantz - wondered how they compared ?

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Same thing with me, that the video side of things don't affect my decision. It's all about sound to me.

Unfortunately not, no, the new Rotel 15-series should be in Australian stores this week some time, so I wasn't able to find one of these when I eventually purchased my Marantz AV8003.

However, being a Rotel, I am sure that the emphasis would have been on musicality, so sonically, I would be very confident of this unit.

I do like the look of these new 15-series Rotel's; a bit Krell-like, their appearance. And that 5 x 250-watt Class D Power Amplifier sure looks the goods. RRP in Australia for the '1575 Power Amplifier is AUD $4,500.00.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

The Yamaha is listed at US$5,499.95 and the Denon is listed at US$7,500.00 on their respective US websites. So, it might look like the Yamaha is overpriced in the UK market? Or that the Denon is underpriced in the UK?

I would be interested to find out from the WHF Review Team whether the Denon whould still win the Award if it were priced the same as the Yamaha. Both were rated 5 Stars by the magazine.

 

[Anonymous]

I think that was Dan's original question also....

Any opinions from the team may have to wait a while, as I think most of them are on a jolly - sorry, working - out in Vegas...!ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

These huge differences in prices really represent a good business opportunity for arbitrage. Anyone here keen to set up a business to take advantage of this?

 

[Andrew Everard]

SC:Any opinions from the team may have to wait a while, as I think most of them are on a jolly - sorry, working - out in Vegas...!

Only some of them - the rest of us are still here.

But regarding the question, it seems pointless to keep doing this 'what would be the result if x actually equalled y rather than z?' exercise - we call it as things stand in the market, not in the world of the hypothetical.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
But regarding the question, it seems pointless to keep doing this 'what would be the result if x actually equalled y rather than z?' exercise - we call it as things stand in the market, not in the world of the hypothetical.

Fair point Andrew, agreed. But in Dantan's market, that IS how things stand, hence the question....I guess the other thing that this highlights, along with the rip-off UK thread, is that the WHFI forums are international by nature, where as the magazine is certainly grounded and references in the UK....

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, I think where this question is coming from is that we are merely making a comparison between the top of the range AV Receivers offered by these manufacturers and would like to know that solely based on performance alone, which is the "better" amp in your opinion. Once price is thrown into the equation, then it becomes impossible to judge performance in isolation.

If price is taken into account, I would assume that an American Review Magazine would have probably picked the Yamaha over the Denon given that it is significantly cheaper but again, that wouldn't answer the question on which is the better performing amp if we ignore price.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Points taken both, although we do of course have a range of magazines out there in various territories addressing just this consideration. Reading the reviews should give you a clear picture of which we consider the better of the two. UK price is always a consideration, and a major one, but it's not really as clear as 'would a £1000 four star product be a five-star one if it was £200 less?'

 

[Anonymous]

There's no Haymarket HiFi mags out in S.E Asia, that I'm aware of - hence me paying about a tenner per issue for a 10 day old UK WHFI !

 

[Andrew Everard]

£10 an issue? Our current subs offer will get you 13 issues for £79 - click here.

Oh, and we do have editions in both Thailand and Indonesia!

 

[Anonymous]

Sadly, myÿexcellentÿtaxi Thai doesn't extend much to reading the script Andrew !

To be honest, I'd rather have the real deal anyway....

But yep, on the shelf it's 545 Baht - which with the £ worth what it is now, equates to £10.45 !....I have asked about international subs before with regards to postage times but never established an answer....Probably easier and cheaper to get the old man to pop one in the post every month !

 

[Anonymous]

Wow, it is great to see some replies here.

Thanks for your response, as well, Andrew.

I think it is pretty clear over here in Australia which unit I would purchase. Fact is, just purely on Australian RRP, there is no way that the Denon AVC-A1HD is worth almost exactly twice as much as the Yamaha RX-Z11. In fact, at the same price, I would still pick the Yamaha over the Denon, based on the reviews I have read from various sources.

In the UK, with the Denon being significantly cheaper (although being a 7.1 instead of 11.2, even though not many people would be taking full advantage of the presence channels of the Yamaha, but then again, the AVC-A1HD has so many features that very few of us are ever going to use the half of them), it might sway my decision that way, if I were considering either of these two units. The 'extra' 1200GBP could, for example, purchase a Cyrus CD 6 SE CD Player and Panasonic DMP-BD35 or '55 Blu-ray Disc Player.

Dan.

 

[Anonymous]

Sorry, Andrew, but what about the similarly-priced Pioneer 'Susano' SC-LX90 vs the Yamaha DSP-Z11?

If there was a shoot-out between these 2 units, which would you have awarded the test victory to?

Dan.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I'm not familiar enough with the two units to answer that question

 

[Anonymous]

How about a 3 way test between these 3 models in the March issue?