XLR vs. RCA

[CodyTARA]

Hello! My name's Cody; I work for TARA Labs. Not here to promote anything, this is just a disclaimer.

It seems that the majority of termination requests we receive at TARA Labs are for balanced (XLR) lines. Personally, I use unbalanced (RCA) interconnects with my Cary system setup, which seems to work quite well. I would be interested in hearing other opinions regarding XLR vs RCA?

(Please note that I have posted this on a few forums. I am not spamming, but rather would like to hear a wider range of opinions. I will make an effort to respond to all appropriate posts.)

 

[Anderson]

XLR if you're running long lengths of cable or working in a highly noisey enviroment where you need to have signal integrity. XLR by its very nature and my understanding rejects noise.

RCA for home audio or short runs.

Another thing to bear in mind is if you're mix and matching consumer and pro audio gear you may well want to use XLR out or a bump box to a pro audio amp in order to get to your 1.4volts (correct me if I'm wrong on that) to properly drive your pro audio gear. Generally I think consumer gear is looking for a 0.7 volt output to get decent volume.

But in essence it doesn't really matter, use whatever you want to, they're intended for different applications but can be mixed if you desire.

 

[CnoEvil]

IME. Some brands that are fully balanced (like Electrcompaniet), can sound better when connected with XLR.

 

[davedotco]

IME. Some brands that are fully balanced (like Electrcompaniet), can sound better when connected with XLR.

That is one situation that is pretty clear cut but otherwise I doubt it makes much difference. There might be some advantage in balancing an otherwise single ended connection if the runs are going to be very long, but in a domestic setup, I doubt it.

XLR connectors are more robust than phono, can be made to latch and are safer due to the 'earth first' connection.

That said they are more expensive and, in hi fi circles at least, no universally accepted convention regarding terminations.

The one thing I usually advise against is using single ended and balanced equipment together, the phono-XLR (and vice versa) cables are very easy to get wrong.

 

[Electro]

IME. Some brands that are fully balanced (like Electrcompaniet), can sound better when connected with XLR.

I can confirm that this is correct , there is a significant improvement when using balanced XLR interconnects with fully balanced equipment like Electrocompaniet imo.

 

[unsleepable]

What about fully balanced gear—in opposition to just adding a balanced output stage? I don't have much experience with that, but I understand it helps keep low the background noise level introduced by the device itself.

 

[Anderson]

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade but I have to take exception to the balanced sounds better argument + its more expensive. You only have to look at the price of pro audio gear to realise that its not more expensive at least not in the pro world. Its cheap. 2nd it won't sound better, why would it? Could it measure better in some situations maybe.. Will it sound better, not unless you're using it in extreme situations. Please don't perpetuate audiophile myths.

 

[steve_1979]

As has already been said: unless you're running exceptionally long lengths of cable unbalanced RCA will work fine.

 

[unsleepable]

What you say makes sense and I don't disagree with it: a balanced output stage shouldn't add so much to the cost, and it only makes sense when running long lengths of cables—so not much of a point in the average home hi-fi setup.

But all that's a different proposition than a fully-balanced device. I just wonder if internal balancing can make a difference, or it's just another type of snake oil. As I said I don't have much experience with fully-balanced gear.

 

[andyjm]

As mentioned above, the whole point of balanced interface is to be able to drive a long interconnect in a noisy environment - a studio or stage for example. Balanced interconnects are not defined by XLR connectors - studios generally use(d) stereo 1/4 inch jacks for balanced signals. There is an EBU standard (which I can't now find) which defines the electrical details.

Balanced connections are impedance matched to the cable (110ohms) to improve frequency response, use differential connections (the signal and its inverse) to increase noise rejection and use a higher signal level than domestic hifi line level to limit the effect of cable attenuation.

All of this is good news if you have a cable running around a studio, and complelety irrelevant if your connection is a foot or two round the back of your CD player.

Generally, most equipment is not balanced internally. So to use a balanced link you have to go from single ended to balanced on the output, then balanced back to single ended on the input. Back in the day, audio centre-tapped transformers were used which were bulky, expensive but had the advantage of not introducing much noise. These days differential amplifier designs are used which (if you were a hifi purist for example) should worry you as it introduce at least two extra gain stages in each link - with attendant noise and linearity issues.

There is a mystique associated with balanced - 'pro equipment uses it, therefore it must be better'. Not so. Balanced is there for a reason, IMO single ended is better for short domestic runs.

Of minor interest, ethernet connections are balanced, with tiny differential transformers 'magnetics' built into them. Remarkable stuff.

 

[El Hefe]

I have been using both in my system. I would not say XLR gives better sound but definitely different.

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade but I have to take exception to the balanced sounds better argument + its more expensive. You only have to look at the price of pro audio gear to realise that its not more expensive at least not in the pro world. Its cheap. 2nd it won't sound better, why would it? Could it measure better in some situations maybe.. Will it sound better, not unless you're using it in extreme situations. Please don't perpetuate audiophile myths.

The previous Linn models had balanced sockets but not fully balanced circuitry and sounded better using RCA....so nothing to do with sounding better because it's more expensive.

 

[Anderson]

Sorry to rain on anyone's parade but I have to take exception to the balanced sounds better argument + its more expensive. You only have to look at the price of pro audio gear to realise that its not more expensive at least not in the pro world. Its cheap. 2nd it won't sound better, why would it? Could it measure better in some situations maybe.. Will it sound better, not unless you're using it in extreme situations. Please don't perpetuate audiophile myths.

The previous Linn models had balanced sockets but not fully balanced circuitry and sounded better using RCA....so nothing to do with sounding better because it's more expensive.

 

If you're having a go at COST = QUALITY argument then yes I agree. If you're saying you like the sound of one particular CD player because it was 'fully balanced' then I don't know.

Merry Christmas though :-]

 

[davedotco]

As mentioned above, the whole point of balanced interface is to be able to drive a long interconnect in a noisy environment - a studio or stage for example. Balanced interconnects are not defined by XLR connectors - studios generally use(d) stereo 1/4 inch jacks for balanced signals. There is an EBU standard (which I can't now find) which defines the electrical details.

Balanced connections are impedance matched to the cable (110ohms) to improve frequency response, use differential connections (the signal and its inverse) to increase noise rejection and use a higher signal level than domestic hifi line level to limit the effect of cable attenuation.

All of this is good news if you have a cable running around a studio, and complelety irrelevant if your connection is a foot or two round the back of your CD player.

Generally, most equipment is not balanced internally. So to use a balanced link you have to go from single ended to balanced on the output, then balanced back to single ended on the input. Back in the day, audio centre-tapped transformers were used which were bulky, expensive but had the advantage of not introducing much noise. These days differential amplifier designs are used which (if you were a hifi purist for example) should worry you as it introduce at least two extra gain stages in each link - with attendant noise and linearity issues.

There is a mystique associated with balanced - 'pro equipment uses it, therefore it must be better'. Not so. Balanced is there for a reason, IMO single ended is better for short domestic runs.

Of minor interest, ethernet connections are balanced, with tiny differential transformers 'magnetics' built into them. Remarkable stuff.

As usual, a very informative and balanced (he, he) view that saves me the bother.

Just to add, fully balanced equipment is very rare, it has two completely separate circuits that are identical and symmetrical, both carry the same signal but in one circuit the phase is reversed, ie + ve and - ve.

Thus, for example, a cd player may split the signal from the dac (or use twin dacs) and provide a balanced output, use balanced connections to connect to a pre-amp which again is fully balanced and contains two separate circuits. The pre-amp connects via balanced cables to the power amp, which eventually combines both + ve and - ve circuits thus reducing noise and distortion.

XLR connectors are more robust, more secure (locking) and safer because they make the ground connection first. There is, as far as I know, no evidence to suggest that they are inherently better sounding than phono plugs.

 

[CnoEvil]

If you're having a go at COST = QUALITY argument then yes I agree. If you're saying you like the sound of one particular CD player because it was 'fully balanced' then I don't know.

Merry Christmas though :-]

I am saying that having XLR sockets is not a guarantee that a piece of kit will sound better through them...ie. it's not to do with cost, but design.

Happy Christmas to you as well

Cynical Cno.

 

[TrevC]

The difference between balanced and unbalanced connections at line levels is zilch, but noticeable on microphone cables because balanced all but eliminates hum and handling wires noise, so if you like karaoke go XLR.

 

[CnoEvil]

The difference between balanced and unbalanced connections at line levels is zilch, but noticeable on microphone cables because balanced all but eliminates hum and handling wires noise, so if you like karaoke go XLR.

Merry Christmas.....I hope it's a very balanced one. *biggrin*

 

[Anderson]

I think you'll find most around here are unbalanced.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think you'll find most around here are unbalanced.

I personally sound better that way!

 

[Anderson]

I think you'll find most around here are unbalanced.

I personally sound better that way!

I haven't heard of any evidence to the contrary so I'm inclined to believe you.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think you'll find most around here are unbalanced.

I personally sound better that way!

I haven't heard of any evidence to the contrary so I'm inclined to believe you.

Maybe I should become balanced....I heard it's more effective when in a noisy environment.

 

[nopiano]

Reverting to the original question, I am not too surprised that custom requests are for balanced. For hifi, that would suggest the user has expensive gear and is seeking to get the best from it. RCA connections are easier to buy ready made, hence requests for XLR.

As it happens, I've always used balanced between my Krell CD and amp, with Transparent cables, recommended when I bought them. But I've never attempted a comparison, which I guess might be interesting one day (though I doubt levels will be identical).

 

[CodyTARA]

Thanks everyone for your responses. Each of us has our own experiences and are entitled to our own opinions.

 

[Anderson]

It would appear we've provided free market research.

 

[Vladimir]

It would appear we've provided free market research.

What do you mean free? I was expecting a cheque on the 1st of the month?????