Woofer movement

[Reijer]

While enjoying my vinyl I noticed that the woofers of my speakers are moving in another way then the music is playing. They move quite slow and comparing it with a frequentiesweep I think the frequentie is below 35 Hz.

Is this because on vinyl are more frequeties recorded than on CD? (lower than 20 Hz and higher than 20 kHz)

 

[Gray]

What you've described can occur when the record is noticeably warped. Could this be the case for you?

 

[CnoEvil]

What you've described can occur when the record is noticeably warped. Could this be the case for you?

I agree that it sounds like "Rumble".....which is why sealed speakers were so popular back in the day, as they minimized the "woofer flap".

 

[Al ears]

What you've described can occur when the record is noticeably warped. Could this be the case for you?

I agree that it sounds like "Rumble".....which is why sealed speakers were so popular back in the day, as they minimized the "woofer flap".

If there is is flap and a distinct sound coming from woofer when turntable is revolving but not actually playing that rises in volume when volume is cranked up then you have an earthing problem.

Took we a while to resolve mine. ;-)

And no, vinyl does not have a greater frequency range than CD.

 

[daytona600]

And no, vinyl does not have a greater frequency range than CD.

CD is brickwalled @ 20khz analogue like a studer tape deck can reach 122khz

do you have a sub sonic filter on your phono stage/amp if so switch it on & will stop cone movements especially if you have reflex/ported speakers

 

[Al ears]

And no, vinyl does not have a greater frequency range than CD.

CD is brickwalled @ 20khz analogue like a studer tape deck can reach 122khz

do you have a sub sonic filter on your phono stage/amp if so switch it on & will stop cone movements especially if you have reflex/ported speakers

Sub sonic filter is unlikely I'd guess, certainly on an old NAD. These are pretty rare beasts these days just like earth lifts.

I'll put money on it being a grounding problem and nothing to do with warped records.

 

[Oldphrt]

While enjoying my vinyl I noticed that the woofers of my speakers are moving in another way then the music is playing. They move quite slow and comparing it with a frequentiesweep I think the frequentie is below 35 Hz.

Is this because on vinyl are more frequeties recorded than on CD? (lower than 20 Hz and higher than 20 kHz)

It's subsonic noise from the vinyl itself. Some cartridge arm combinations can exaggerate it. If the cone movement is small you can ignore it.

 

[MajorFubar]

^^^^WHS

Subsonic rumble cause by a piece of diamond being dragged through a plastic trough at anything from 18cm/sec near the middle and 52cm/sec near the edge. It's why old amps had switchable rumble filters, which usually lopped off everything below about 30Hz.

 

[Al ears]

^^^^WHS

Subsonic rumble cause by a piece of diamond being dragged through a plastic trough at anything from 18cm/sec near the middle and 52cm/sec near the edge. It's why old amps had switchable rumble filters, which usually lopped off everything below about 30Hz.

If this 'flap' is only happening whilst playing a record then subsonic rumble would be correct diagnosis. If, however, the effects noted in my post #4 are present then it's wrong diagnosis.

Still awaiting OP to get back into this thread with some more observations.

 

[Reijer]

Sorry for the late answering. For some days I had no internet or TV. Something wrong with the router and set top box. Luckely my provider installed a new router and new set top boxes all for free.

@ Grey: For what I've noticed the moving of the woofers is not while playing warped records but that doesn't exclude anything.

@ Al ears: the moving of the woofers is not audible as far as I can hear.

I thought that vinyl had a greater DR than CD.

I use my TEAC and Pro-Ject Phono Box MM to play my vinyl at my main system. The NAD is in my second system. Maybe, when money is not that great of an issue, I buy a DAC and use the NAD in my main system.

@daytona600: No, I have no filter on my Pro-Ject Phono Box MM.

 

[MajorFubar]

I thought that vinyl had a greater DR than CD.

Dynamic range of vinyl is pants and was easily bettered by a cassette deck with Dolby C, let alone a CD. What's wrong with most pop and rock CDs is the mastering engineer smashes the dynamic range to a maxed-out flat line because louder songs sell more copies, apparently. It's nothing to do with any technical limitations of CDs, which potentially have a near 100dB dynamic range. But the lure and enjoyment of records transcend any limitations of their technical specifications. Enjoy.

 

[Oldphrt]

^^^^WHS

Subsonic rumble cause by a piece of diamond being dragged through a plastic trough at anything from 18cm/sec near the middle and 52cm/sec near the edge. It's why old amps had switchable rumble filters, which usually lopped off everything below about 30Hz.

If this 'flap' is only happening whilst playing a record then subsonic rumble would be correct diagnosis. If, however, the effects noted in my post #4 are present then it's wrong diagnosis.

Still awaiting OP to get back into this thread with some more observations.

You don't get cone flap without the arm playing a record. Not ever.

 

[Al ears]

^^^^WHS

Subsonic rumble cause by a piece of diamond being dragged through a plastic trough at anything from 18cm/sec near the middle and 52cm/sec near the edge. It's why old amps had switchable rumble filters, which usually lopped off everything below about 30Hz.

If this 'flap' is only happening whilst playing a record then subsonic rumble would be correct diagnosis. If, however, the effects noted in my post #4 are present then it's wrong diagnosis.

Still awaiting OP to get back into this thread with some more observations.

You don't get cone flap without the arm playing a record. Not ever.

Wrong

However your definition of cone flap may be different to mine. I refer to background hum and large deflections of the woofer than can be brought into being simply by walking past the speaker and becomes more evident when volume control is increased.

 

[Oldphrt]

^^^^WHS

Subsonic rumble cause by a piece of diamond being dragged through a plastic trough at anything from 18cm/sec near the middle and 52cm/sec near the edge. It's why old amps had switchable rumble filters, which usually lopped off everything below about 30Hz.

If this 'flap' is only happening whilst playing a record then subsonic rumble would be correct diagnosis. If, however, the effects noted in my post #4 are present then it's wrong diagnosis.

Still awaiting OP to get back into this thread with some more observations.

You don't get cone flap without the arm playing a record. Not ever.

Wrong

However your definition of cone flap may be different to mine. I refer to background hum and large deflections of the woofer than can be brought into being simply by walking past the speaker and becomes more evident when volume control is increased.

Sounds like you need some decent kit. Is your record player a Dansette?

 

[Reijer]

... some fiddling around I've noticed that with some records I have no signicant movement of the woofer. With other records I do see some movement of the woofer, in another rythm than the music would create. With one record I also noticed that groves were not perfectly round. The tonearm was slightly shifting from left to right while playing.

The groundwire from the player is connected to the phone preamp. According to the salesman was that sufficient enough. Also my TEAC has no groundwire connection.

 

[Oldphrt]

... some fiddling around I've noticed that with some records I have no signicant movement of the woofer. With other records I do see some movement of the woofer, in another rythm than the music would create. With one record I also noticed that groves were not perfectly round. The tonearm was slightly shifting from left to right while playing.

The groundwire from the player is connected to the phone preamp. According to the salesman was that sufficient enough. Also my TEAC has no groundwire connection.

The problem is the vinyl itself. The only thing that might improve it is a lower compliance cartridge which will move the natural resonance of the arm cartridge combination to a higher frequency. If the cone movement isn't excessive you can just ignore it.