Without taking sides

[admin_exported]

Found some interesting information here regarding hi-end audio cables.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-end_audio_cables 

I see the James Randi foundation is offering one million dollars to anyone who can tell the difference between cheap and really high end stuff.

Would "What hifi" ever take the challenge ?, surely an easy million for the reviewers ?

 

 

[Andrew Everard]

Here we go again...

 

[Tony_R]

Break out the tins of snake oil..........

 

[timwileman]

lock and load ...

 

[Andrew Everard]

 

[fatboyslimfast]

 

[Anonymous]

As an owner of Cyrus kit, I looked at speaker cables and interconnects with their name on them. They quote the electrical values of the cable. I found equivalent cable with the same or better values at, literally, a fraction of the price, which sound great to me. I can see no logical reason why copper used in one brand of cable should have different sonic characteristics to that of copper with a different brand name on it, but with the same electrical values. It is fair to say that you need to understand that for speaker cable, you need to have a guage of cable appropriate to the length of the run, but that's about it; and that calculation is based on scientific principles.

 

[Anonymous]

Regarding the Randi millions, I am gob smacked that no-one has won the money yet, especially reading some of the comments made on here about the differences amongst cables. Surely it should be a walk in the park?

 

[Anonymous]

drumlins4ever:...I see the James Randi foundation is offering one million dollars to anyone who can tell the difference between cheap and really high end stuff.

I suppose it depends on how they define Cheap! If the comparison is between a £50/mtr cable and a £500/metre cable on a low-end system, then I'm sure even the peope on this forum would struggle to notice the difference. But of course, £50/mtr is far from cherap - but it is relative to the £500 one. If it was a straight 'bellwire vs highest-end-cable' fight, then the money would have been won a long time ago.

 

[Terryff]

Fascinating article, as always with wikkipedia should be taken with a pinch of salt as it is usually one persons view expressed (ponders using coat hangers to test my interconnects).ÿ

ÿ

 

[John Duncan]

To be fair, people have accepted the Randi challenge only to be fobbed off at every turn.

But anyway, that's all I'm saying. Am off to my grassy knoll...

 

[professorhat]

Well if someone won, that would kind of ruin their argument...

 

[Clare Newsome]

As JD says, people have tried to take up the challenge, but Randi wriggles out of it. Example here from Stereophile

 

[Anonymous]

I Want Transparent Audio Cables . For those who love Chord, ME! - there is a Chord Indigo Speaker Cable due at the back end I think of next year - Exciting Times!!!

 

[John Duncan]

Clare Newsome:As JD says, people have tried to take up the challenge, but Randi wriggles out of it. Example here from Stereophile

Maybe we could take it up. Would make an interesting article, and we could win a few bucks. Not me, obv, I think Gotham are OK.....

 

[Clare Newsome]

Vinny7:I Want Transparent Audio Cables . For those who love Chord, ME! - there is a Chord Indigo Speaker Cable due at the back end I think of next year - Exciting Times!!!

Chord Indigo Plus is due sooner than that - January, in fact. We've had first review samples in.

What's great to hear is that the company will also allow existing Indigo users to upgrade their cables to the new spec (from March, I believe - once they've fulfilled orders for the new cable).

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Clare, O wow, I know the Chord Indigo Plus Interconnects are out very soon, looking forward to upgrade my existing sets in March [Fantastic Consumer Option!!]. Is the Indigo speaker cable out at the same time however? I know Chord are NOT going to discontinue or supersede the Chord Signature Cable, just bring in new top of the range line at a higher price point. Which again for Chord Signature owners, is great news for a cable thats been around for more than 5 years. Great Value!

 

[Anonymous]

It isÿfascinatingÿthat there is a huge lack of scientific evidence on this issue.ÿ

It seems to be 99.9% subjective.ÿ

You would think that theÿIndustryÿas a whole if they are so sure of what they claim, that the would go ahead ,do the double blind tests and put an end to the matter once and for all.

Responsibilityÿshould really be on the manufactures and the reviewers to do this,ÿClaims should be proven with scientific data otherwise people really can sell expensive snake oil.ÿ

Have i made sense , what say you "what hifi" ?

 

[Anonymous]

Clare Newsome:As JD says, people have tried to take up the challenge, but Randi wriggles out of it. Example here from Stereophile

ÿRandi tells a different story ,

http://www.randi.org/jr/121004science.html#11

ÿWho does one believe ? The burden of proof should rest with those making claims , no?ÿÿ

 

[Anonymous]

Vinny7:I Want Transparent Audio Cables . For those who love Chord, ME! - there is a Chord Indigo Speaker Cable due at the back end I think of next year - Exciting Times!!!

Fortean Times more like - sorry, just adding fuel to the debate.

Bang for buck, diminishing returns, etc.etc.

 

[Anonymous]

drumlins4ever:
It isÿfascinatingÿthat there is a huge lack of scientific evidence on this issue.ÿ

It seems to be 99.9% subjective.ÿ

You would think that theÿIndustryÿas a whole if they are so sure of what they claim, that the would go ahead ,do the double blind tests and put an end to the matter once and for all.

Responsibilityÿshould really be on the manufactures and the reviewers to do this,ÿClaims should be proven with scientific data otherwise people really can sell expensive snake oil.ÿ

Have i made sense , what say you "what hifi" ?

There is no scientific evidence available for performance of analogue cables because no one disputes there can be a difference and there is a difference. Ways in which the WW2 technology of RCA can adapt to mimic newer technologies such as XLR are becoming ever so more apparant though it's down to the manufacturers to make the switch, and hopefully RCA will be on the way out soon.ÿ

ÿ

 

[Anonymous]

I would beg to differ, with regards to audio analogue cables there are many people who believe that there is no discernable difference under scientific conditions, many of whom are well qualified to say so.

What I would like to understand is that the cable companies are effectively taking one common material - copper, an element, generally 99.9999999999% pure. They provide them in different guages. What factors then make one cable sound different from another, given that the conducting metal is almost universal? I just can't see any difference, nor hear it at the dealers. Maybe I have cloth ears? Having said that, I can hear the difference between speakers, amps, CDP's etc., so my hearing can't be that bad.

Cables I would avoid? Those who fail to mention the electrical characteristics of their product.

 

[margetti]

Well, you could take the debate to the atomic level, with terms like "linear crystal", "grain structure" and "grain boundaries" - these are real factors associated with the manufacturing of copper wire. As to their effect on audio quality, well....ÿ

Septicman:

What I would like to understand is that the cable companies are effectively takingÿone common material - copper, an element, generally 99.9999999999% pure.ÿ They provide them in different guages.ÿ What factors then make one cable sound different from another, given that the conducting metal is almost universal?

 

[Anonymous]

Septicman:
What I would like to understand is that the cable companies are effectively takingÿone common material - copper, an element, generally 99.9999999999% pure.ÿ They provide them in different guages.ÿ What factors then make one cable sound different from another, given that the conducting metal is almost universal?ÿ I just can't see any difference, nor hear it at the dealers.ÿ Maybe I have cloth ears?ÿ Having said that, I can hear the difference between speakers, amps, CDP's etc., so my hearing can't be that bad.

There are plenty of other factors than just the conducting metal - shielding, plating, weave, connectors, insulation... ÿDo a blind test on a Chord Crimson and a Chord Anthem with a deserving system and I'll eat my hat if you can't hear the difference.

 

[margetti]

Although it comes from an interconnect manufacturer (and thus some may question the integrity of the article), a good guide to interconnect manufacturing can be found here:ÿhttp://www.thoravinterconnects.co.uk/TECHNICAL/info.html

It is quite a technical article, so only view if you've got nothing better to do, lol!ÿ