I am confounded by how bad AV receivers are when you cut the rest of the speakers out and listen to them in stereo. Why is this? I expected that if I paid over a grand I might get something that might be half decent at playing music - WRONG! Comparing a £1800 Denon with a £350 Arcam showed me how wrong I was. And I listened to two of the Onkyo's that everyone is raving about and the sound in stereo was remedial (and that's being kind) making me realise that the units are little more than glorified switching devices!!! Don't manufacturers try or is it just that home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music?
Why do AV receivers sound so bad when playing music?
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Video circuitry plus stereo music = bad news, generally. It's not just AV receivers, but DVD players, too - it's incredibly difficult to get a best-of-both-worlds situation. Timing, particularly, suffers - finding a rhythmic AV product is like discovering the proverbial hen's tooth.
Two answers - either go for a more musical receiver (Arcam's your best bet here, followed by Marantz), which may mean compromising your all-out cinema performance; or keep your stereo amplifier for front L/R duties.
Two answers - either go for a more musical receiver (Arcam's your best bet here, followed by Marantz), which may mean compromising your all-out cinema performance; or keep your stereo amplifier for front L/R duties.
The role of manufacturers is to overcome technical difficulties and produce what people want. My guess is that people who want home cinema MOSTLY don't bother with music all that much. Maybe its all crash bang whallop?
I've listened to Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo and I thought they are all OK at best for music and certainly not good. I'd be wary of exchanging any British amp for a Japanese AV receiever. Of course you could use the British amp for front duties but this means more boxes. I have not tried Arcam so that might me my next demo - that and Cyrus. Not a fan of Marantz though so I'll skip that.
Cheers for the input!
I've listened to Yamaha, Denon and Onkyo and I thought they are all OK at best for music and certainly not good. I'd be wary of exchanging any British amp for a Japanese AV receiever. Of course you could use the British amp for front duties but this means more boxes. I have not tried Arcam so that might me my next demo - that and Cyrus. Not a fan of Marantz though so I'll skip that.
Cheers for the input!
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............
[/quote]
[/quote]
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............
[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[quote user="fr0g"]
*EDIT - Here...
HifiNews Denon 3808 review[/quote]
Written by Richard Stevenson - nice guy, but I really don't feel industry PRs (he represents a range of companies in the AV world) are the most independently placed to be writing product reviews
*EDIT - Here...
HifiNews Denon 3808 review[/quote]
Written by Richard Stevenson - nice guy, but I really don't feel industry PRs (he represents a range of companies in the AV world) are the most independently placed to be writing product reviews
[quote user="Clare Newsome"][quote user="fr0g"]
*EDIT - Here...
HifiNews Denon 3808 review[/quote]
Written by Richard Stevenson - nice guy, but I really don't feel industry PRs (he represents a range of companies in the AV world) are the most independently placed to be writing product reviews
[/quote]
*EDIT - Here...
HifiNews Denon 3808 review[/quote]
Written by Richard Stevenson - nice guy, but I really don't feel industry PRs (he represents a range of companies in the AV world) are the most independently placed to be writing product reviews
[/quote]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............[/quote]
I could get almost as steamed up as Clare about this!
Sure, most AV receivers aren't as good as a dedicated stereo amp. But that doesn't mean those of us who love films hate listening to music. I run an Arcam AVR280 at home with a DV79 DVD player and MA Radius speakers and no, it's not the last word in hi-fi - but it can still produce a pretty decent sound in stereo.
I know the Arcam hasn't got all the latest specs when it comes to HD surround sound, but for now (until I get a Blu-ray player!) it's a compromise I'm happy to accept.
[/quote]I could get almost as steamed up as Clare about this!
Sure, most AV receivers aren't as good as a dedicated stereo amp. But that doesn't mean those of us who love films hate listening to music. I run an Arcam AVR280 at home with a DV79 DVD player and MA Radius speakers and no, it's not the last word in hi-fi - but it can still produce a pretty decent sound in stereo.
I know the Arcam hasn't got all the latest specs when it comes to HD surround sound, but for now (until I get a Blu-ray player!) it's a compromise I'm happy to accept.
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[/quote]
I did try very hard to comprimised, FWIW no AV Integrated amp out there can replay music the way Midrange (and upward) dedicate Hifi gears could. Pre-Power AV setup however come closer but not enough. I have 2 systems, one for each purpose, and trust me that's not by choice.
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............
[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[/quote]
I did try very hard to comprimised, FWIW no AV Integrated amp out there can replay music the way Midrange (and upward) dedicate Hifi gears could. Pre-Power AV setup however come closer but not enough. I have 2 systems, one for each purpose, and trust me that's not by choice.
[quote user="Thaiman"][quote user="Clare Newsome"]
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[/quote]
I did try very hard to comprimised, FWIW no AV Integrated amp out there can replay music the way Midrange (and upward) dedicate Hifi gears could. Pre-Power AV setup however come closer but not enough. I have 2 systems, one for each purpose, and trust me that's not by choice.
[/quote]
I agree totally - me too. (But you can integrate the two systems so you use the same front speakers...)
[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............
[/quote]
[/quote]
Oh, how I love sweeping statements... I'm sitting here listening to superb music on vinyl, via floorstanding front speakers and a corking stereo amp - later on said speakers and amp will be powering the front L/R channels of my 7.1 cinema set-up while it powers through the PCM soundtrack of a Blu-ray disc.
[/quote]
I did try very hard to comprimised, FWIW no AV Integrated amp out there can replay music the way Midrange (and upward) dedicate Hifi gears could. Pre-Power AV setup however come closer but not enough. I have 2 systems, one for each purpose, and trust me that's not by choice.
[/quote]
I agree totally - me too. (But you can integrate the two systems so you use the same front speakers...)
note taken, I'm now using my old stereo amp again, not heard before with my new cd player and I can't believe the difference between this and my AV receiver. Looks like the upgrade was just for the surround experience.
If you have a seperate stereo amplifier, is there a way of using the main speakers with AV and stereo amps, without having to re-connect every time?
Assuming you have an AV receiver with preamp-level outputs for all the channels, and you're not Gerrardasnails, yes.
Connect the front channel left/right preouts from the receiver to a spare line input (Aux, Tape or whatever) on your stereo amp. Select that input and set the level on the stereo amp to a setting you can remember easily - 10 o'clock or so usually works. Now balance up the speakers using the receiver's menus, or its auto set-up, to suit.
You can now use the stereo amp as the power amp for the front left/right channels for surround, simply by selecting the appropriate input on your stereo amp and setting its volume to the position we decided on above. And with your music sources - CD, LP or whatever - still connected to their inputs on the stereo amp, all the surround gubbins is out of circuit when playing music.
Best of both worlds, job done, eye thengyow!
Connect the front channel left/right preouts from the receiver to a spare line input (Aux, Tape or whatever) on your stereo amp. Select that input and set the level on the stereo amp to a setting you can remember easily - 10 o'clock or so usually works. Now balance up the speakers using the receiver's menus, or its auto set-up, to suit.
You can now use the stereo amp as the power amp for the front left/right channels for surround, simply by selecting the appropriate input on your stereo amp and setting its volume to the position we decided on above. And with your music sources - CD, LP or whatever - still connected to their inputs on the stereo amp, all the surround gubbins is out of circuit when playing music.
Best of both worlds, job done, eye thengyow!
It was in fact a AVR3808 but I did also listen to the next one up; imaginatively called the AVR4808!
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Assuming you have an AV receiver with preamp-level outputs for all the channels, and you're not Gerrardasnails, yes.
Connect the front channel left/right preouts from the receiver to a spare line input (Aux, Tape or whatever) on your stereo amp. Select that input and set the level on the stereo amp to a setting you can remember easily - 10 o'clock or so usually works. Now balance up the speakers using the receiver's menus, or its auto set-up, to suit.
You can now use the stereo amp as the power amp for the front left/right channels for surround, simply by selecting the appropriate input on your stereo amp and setting its volume to the position we decided on above. And with your music sources - CD, LP or whatever - still connected to their inputs on the stereo amp, all the surround gubbins is out of circuit when playing music.
Best of both worlds, job done, eye thengyow!
[/quote]
So what happens when you want to turn the movie sound up or down ?will the reciever do this or does the stereo amp volume control knob need to be turned as well? does the 'mute' button work /
Assuming you have an AV receiver with preamp-level outputs for all the channels, and you're not Gerrardasnails, yes.
Connect the front channel left/right preouts from the receiver to a spare line input (Aux, Tape or whatever) on your stereo amp. Select that input and set the level on the stereo amp to a setting you can remember easily - 10 o'clock or so usually works. Now balance up the speakers using the receiver's menus, or its auto set-up, to suit.
You can now use the stereo amp as the power amp for the front left/right channels for surround, simply by selecting the appropriate input on your stereo amp and setting its volume to the position we decided on above. And with your music sources - CD, LP or whatever - still connected to their inputs on the stereo amp, all the surround gubbins is out of circuit when playing music.
Best of both worlds, job done, eye thengyow!
[/quote]
So what happens when you want to turn the movie sound up or down ?will the reciever do this or does the stereo amp volume control knob need to be turned as well? does the 'mute' button work /
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]I agree totally - me too. (But you can integrate the two systems so you use the same front speakers...) [/quote]
I tried that once in yesteryear, forgot to take out the speaker binding post plates and blew both amps ... Oops... But my speakers were fine
I tried that once in yesteryear, forgot to take out the speaker binding post plates and blew both amps ... Oops... But my speakers were fine
[quote user="mandeep"]yes u r right home cinema fans don't give a monkeys about listening to music.............[/quote]
Most home cinema fans (like me) are music fans too so we have seperate kit for that!
[/quote]Most home cinema fans (like me) are music fans too so we have seperate kit for that!
[quote user="Andrew Everard"]Connect the front channel left/right preouts from the receiver to a spare line input (Aux, Tape or whatever) on your stereo amp.[/quote]
Would the sound then will be only as good as a pre out from the AV amp?
Would the sound then will be only as good as a pre out from the AV amp?
[quote user="biggus_1961"]So what happens when you want to turn the movie sound up or down ?will the reciever do this or does the stereo amp volume control knob need to be turned as well? does the 'mute' button work /[/quote]
Yes the receiver does this. And yes the mute button works fine.
Yes the receiver does this. And yes the mute button works fine.
[quote user="simonkee"]I tried that once in yesteryear, forgot to take out the speaker binding post plates and blew both amps ... Oops... But my speakers were fine[/quote]
Then you did it wrong! There;s no need to remove any plates on the speakers, by which i assume you mean the jumper bars on biwiring terminals.
You don't connect the receiver's front l/r speaker outputs to your speakers, too, only the stereo amp's. The signal for the front l/r speakers is provided by the stereo amp via the receiver's front l/r preouts.
Then you did it wrong! There;s no need to remove any plates on the speakers, by which i assume you mean the jumper bars on biwiring terminals.
You don't connect the receiver's front l/r speaker outputs to your speakers, too, only the stereo amp's. The signal for the front l/r speakers is provided by the stereo amp via the receiver's front l/r preouts.
[quote user="Thaiman"]
Would the sound then will be only as good as a pre out from the AV amp?
[/quote]
Yes, but this only affects movies. Your stereo components remain connected directly to you stereo amplifier.
Would the sound then will be only as good as a pre out from the AV amp?
[/quote]
Yes, but this only affects movies. Your stereo components remain connected directly to you stereo amplifier.
May sound dumb, but whats the differenve between a fixed and a variable pre-out? Is one affected by the volume control where the other is effectively a line level output?
I dont think my AV receiver sounds at all bad when listening in stereo, though it needs to be pushed. OK, I have heard better stereo amps, but for a lot more money than I paid for my AV receiver.
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