Which upgrade next for my system? Q Acoustics Concept 20 or Audiolab Power Amp

[LupoLoopy]

Hi!

Due to the poorly researched purchase of some (low sensitivity) AKG Q701 headphones, I was left with a justification to purchase something decent to drive them. I killed two birds with one stone by purchasing an Audiolab M-DAC.

It's turned out to be a really exciting combination, open and detailed. However, now my bookshelf speaker/amplifier combo sound poor, almost wooly by comparisson.

The relevant device chain is currently as follows:

M-DAC ---> Musical Fidelity X-10v3 ---> Muscial Fidelity A3 Dual Mono Integrated Amplifier ---> Quad 11L (originals)

I'm thinking of spending anywhere up to £700, but would like to maximize SQ upgrade for my buck. My sources can all be routed in via my DAC, so a power amp is very much an option now.

Would I be better off...

1) Replacing my Quad 11L's for Q Acoustic Concept 20s @ £350

2) Replacing my MF A3 Amplifier with an Audiolab M-PWR, connected via XLR? <--- takes advantage of XLR outputs on M-DAC

3) Replacing my MF A3 Amplifier with an Audiolab 8200P, connected via phono cables? <--- This amp doesnt have XLR inputs

Also - the output from the M-DAC is so good (via my headphones) for various digital sources, I now wonder if the MF-X10v3 is merely injecting warmth/corruption into the signal chain. It could be easily removed and flea-bayed.

My dealer (who credit to him is offering me some relevant auditions) feels that upgrading electronics first in my scenario (read amplifier) would make sense, but everything I'm reading suggests leads with speakers - I'd also save a bit of money.

Any thoughts esteemed and, most importantly, independant forum people?

 

[Al ears]

I take it your dealer does not stock Q Acoustic speakers

I would attemt to audition these first with your current system and bear in mind they are supposed to sound better on their dedicated stands (cannot vouch for this because have not heard them set up like this) - so you are not looking at £350

If you go down the M-PWR route do not bother spending out money on XLR cables if you do not already own some. These will make no SQ difference over lengths of a metre or so.

Get rid of the MF-X10.

Oh, and welcome to the forum.

 

[davedotco]

Wow, this gives me a chance to get into full on 'shill mode' again.

The obvious answer in your situation is to ditch everything after the M-Dac and treat yourself to a pair of AVI DM5 active speakers.

Actually there is plenty of choice for the available budget, including Adam A5x (£550), Presonus Eris 8 (£400) a personal favourite and Adam Artist 6 floorstanders at a little over £900. If you like it fairly loud, with serious bass and presence the Mackie HR624 should not be ignored, be sure to warn the neighbours though!

That said, I am sure you will get plenty of other more 'conventional' suggestions but for me there is no comparison, in these circumstances active is most definitely the way to go.

 

[Al ears]

Wow, this gives me a chance to get into full on 'shill mode' again.

The obvious answer in your situation is to ditch everything after the M-Dac and treat yourself to a pair of AVI DM5 active speakers.

Actually there is plenty of choice for the available budget, including Adam A5x (£550), Presonus Eris 8 (£400) a personal favourite and Adam Artist 6 floorstanders at a little over £900. If you like it fairly loud, with serious bass and presence the Mackie HR624 should not be ignored, be sure to warn the neighbours though!

That said, I am sure you will get plenty of other more 'conventional' suggestions but for me there is no comparison, in these circumstances active is most definitely the way to go.

We have no idea as to OPs sources.

Can we assume its either a CD player or computer or both.

Whatever they may be I look at the OPs question and try to answer it.

Perhaps I am reading it wrong and actives may indeed be the way to go but I assumed he was asking what was best - 1,2, or 3.

Also although you may be right I think suggesting gear that is extremely difficult to audition (for most people) is maybe not the way to go.

 

[davedotco]

Wow, this gives me a chance to get into full on 'shill mode' again.

The obvious answer in your situation is to ditch everything after the M-Dac and treat yourself to a pair of AVI DM5 active speakers.

Actually there is plenty of choice for the available budget, including Adam A5x (£550), Presonus Eris 8 (£400) a personal favourite and Adam Artist 6 floorstanders at a little over £900. If you like it fairly loud, with serious bass and presence the Mackie HR624 should not be ignored, be sure to warn the neighbours though!

That said, I am sure you will get plenty of other more 'conventional' suggestions but for me there is no comparison, in these circumstances active is most definitely the way to go.

We have no idea as to OPs sources.

Can we assume its either a CD player or computer or both.

Whatever they may be I look at the OPs question and try to answer it.

Perhaps I am reading it wrong and actives may indeed be the way to go but I assumed he was asking what was best - 1,2, or 3.

Also although you may be right I think suggesting gear that is extremely difficult to audition (for most people) is maybe not the way to go.

In order.

Neither do you but that did not stop you recomending Q Acoustics speakers.

I was answering his final line, the bit about getting advice from 'independent' contributers.

Quite right, it is far more difficult to get to Studiospares at Staples Corner than to visit a hi-fi dealer.

 

[Al ears]

Perhaps but at least the Q Acoustics are on his list.

As for Studiospares I wouldn't know. Unless he can get some actives to audition and send them back if not happy with them then they may be worth a try.

Again, assuming he actually lives in the UK.

 

[LupoLoopy]

Thanks for the prompt replies guys!

To answer some of your questions, the transports are:

1) PC loading high bitrate MP3s and 24bit FLAC files into the M-DAC via it's USB port.

2) Cambridge Audio Azur 640c connected to M-DAC via digital coaxial

The runs between my separatates are less than a meter (or so), so I'll stop panicking about the cable differences (in my head) and just do it 'by ear' at the demo. Great data, so thank you.

I am based in the UK. I listen to Pop, Rock & Acoustic for the most part.

I hadn't really considered active speakers. To be honest, I'd probably be inticlined to say I'm prejudiced against them as I need something to fill my HiFi rack

And yes, you're quite right Alears - my dealer does not stock Q-Acoustics. The thought had crossed my mind

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You seem to have your wires crossed somewhere to-day DDC! The OP has good quality amplification and source, so why consider actives? Performance benefits are questionable for the speakers you mention, whereas putting the money into the better Q Avoustic speakers would seem a better idea. Personally, I'd be looking to spend more on speakers with that amplification and source.

The Musical Fidelity X-10v3 probably is injecting warmth, so try your system without. It's a tube buffer and as such may not be adding anything, quite the reverse in fact. Sell it, add the proceeds to what you have and buy some better speakers - I'd as always be thinking Neat, which you can find at good prices if you look around.

 

[davedotco]

You seem to have your wires crossed somewhere to-day DDC! The OP has good quality amplification and source, so why consider actives? Performance benefits are questionable for the speakers you mention, whereas putting the money into the better Q Avoustic speakers would seem a better idea. Personally, I'd be looking to spend more on speakers with that amplification and source.

The Musical Fidelity X-10v3 probably is injecting warmth, so try your system without. It's a tube buffer and as such may not be adding anything, quite the reverse in fact. Sell it, add the proceeds to what you have and buy some better speakers - I'd as always be thinking Neat, which you can find at good prices if you look around.

The Op actually suggested that a new amplifier was very much a possibility, it's in his first post, so my wires are fine.......

Anyway, I am feeling somewhat 'evangelical' this weekend, several threads invite the recomendation of active speakers so I thought I would go for it.

In this case the OP is straightforward enough to say that he would probably prefer something shiny for his rack which is fair enough. Nice power amp and a pair of decent speakers would clearly do the job, just a bit more expensive.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

DDC, he doesn't need a power amp, the MF integrated is fine - at 100w + per channel it should drive most things!

Selling the buffer plus what he's budgeted for should provide some very nice speakers indeed, and probably better than the actives you mention.

The idea is to help people, not stroke your ego, DDC.

 

[davedotco]

Al, from the OPs original post....

"I'm thinking of spending anywhere up to £700, but would like to maximize SQ upgrade for my buck. My sources can all be routed in via my DAC, so a power amp is very much an option now.

Would I be better off...

1) Replacing my Quad 11L's for Q Acoustic Concept 20s @ £350

2) Replacing my MF A3 Amplifier with an Audiolab M-PWR, connected via XLR? <--- takes advantage of XLR outputs on M-DAC

3) Replacing my MF A3 Amplifier with an Audiolab 8200P, connected via phono cables? <--- This amp doesnt have XLR inputs"

So responding to the OPs post is all about my ego? Get a grip.

Would I have got this grief if I had suggested a regular power amp speaker combo, I don't think so, but dare to mention the 'A word', wow.......

Of course you could keep the MF amp, but the OP expressed an interest in changing both amp and speakers and I suggested a viable option that was within budget.

Given that budget (£700) I maintain that a pair of active speakers would give far better value than a separate power amp and speaker combo but it would appear that saying so infringes some unwritten law of the forum.

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I think you are both right.......there's 101 ways to skin a cat.

It's providing the OP with possible choices, which is not a bad thing.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

It's just your opinion, DDC. You have to realise that others have different ones, and allow for that.

Besides, my guess would be that the MF amp would be better than the Audiolab amp, so swapping to that wouldn't seem the best option - except that the Audiolab may be a touch drier, and more suited to the OP's tastes.

 

[davedotco]

FWIW. I think you are both right.......there's 101 ways to skin a cat.

It's providing the OP with possible choices, which is not a bad thing.

Steady Cno, leave my glorious cross siamese out of it....... :shame:

 

[davedotco]

It's just your opinion, DDC. You have to realise that others have different ones, and allow for that.

Besides, my guess would be that the MF amp would be better than the Audiolab amp, so swapping to that wouldn't seem the best option - except that the Audiolab may be a touch drier, and more suited to the OP's tastes.

Thank you Al, just an opinion, no need for people to get upset.

There are plenty on here who will give the 'conventional' advice, I like to offer another option and I am a big believer in active speakers at this sort of price level so I like to put it forward as a solution. As a minority viewpoint I put it forward with some vigour.

 

[CnoEvil]

FWIW. I think you are both right.......there's 101 ways to skin a cat.

It's providing the OP with possible choices, which is not a bad thing.

Steady Cno, leave my glorious cross siamese out of it....... :shame:

I have to agree.....it's giving me the evil eye.

 

[davedotco]

FWIW. I think you are both right.......there's 101 ways to skin a cat.

It's providing the OP with possible choices, which is not a bad thing.

Steady Cno, leave my glorious cross siamese out of it....... :shame:

I have to agree.....it's giving me the evil eye.

It's a she, and a real witch when she is in the mood........

At the moment she is curled up on Mrs DDC's lap looking like butter wouldn't melt.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's a she, and a real witch when she is in the mood........

At the moment she is curled up on Mrs DDC's lap looking like butter wouldn't melt.

My Uncle used to have one. When in a manic mood, she would race round the house before flying up the curtains and where she woud stage a "sit in."

 

[richardw42]

To the OP

Don't expect anything you buy to beat your headphone set up. It almost certainly won't.

I'd take the x10 out and see where you are.

I would investigate the Concept 20s, although actives may be closer to what you like (just saying ) the power amp you suggest might give better control of your current speakers. But I'd definitely do it bit by bit.

 

[davedotco]

It's a she, and a real witch when she is in the mood........

At the moment she is curled up on Mrs DDC's lap looking like butter wouldn't melt.

My Uncle used to have one. When in a manic mood, she would race round the house before flying up the curtains and where she woud stage a "sit in."

She was 'dumped' and came to us at about 4 weeks, we had to bottle feed her for a while, even getting up at 4.00 am to do so. Very bright but very difficult when she does not get her own way.

Doesn't climb fortunately but has plenty of ways to show her disaproval, particularly if not the centre of attention. Mmmmmmm...... ironic..

 

[Al ears]

DDC, he doesn't need a power amp, the MF integrated is fine - at 100w + per channel it should drive most things!

Selling the buffer plus what he's budgeted for should provide some very nice speakers indeed, and probably better than the actives you mention.

The idea is to help people, not stroke your ego, DDC.

I feel you are thinking along the same lines as me AL, however the OP appears to be under the misaprehension that he would need to add a power amplifier to 'maximise SQ'.

This is not the way to go about it in my 'umble opinion and can sometimes have a detrimental effect if you get it wrong, hence I concentrated on the speaker angle.

He should also sell the buffer to recoup funds unless he is sure it is beneficial to the system as a whole.

 

[richardw42]

The point is, the OP is comparing his system to his headphones. He could spend 2k and still be disappointed.

 

[davedotco]

The point is, the OP is comparing his system to his headphones. He could spend 2k and still be disappointed.

Interestingly, if I was feeling mischievious, I could point out that the clarity and immediacy of active speakers would actually get him much closer to his headphones than any price comparable passive setup.

This is not a dig, but a simple observation that both headphones and active speakers share a certain 'presentational' characteristic.