Which to keep: Kandy K2 or PM7001 Ki

[admin_exported]

Having had a weekend to compare my two amps I am now even more divided between the two.

Kandy K2 is a brilliant amp like the reviews say. Most acoustic/folk/jazz/electronic tracks sound amazing with it. The amp digs up detail across the entire frequency range and the soundstage is wide and spacious(no toe-in on the speakers).

The 7001Ki is a real champ, probably one of the best Marantz amps of late. It is not much behind the K2 as back to back test tracks showed. The Marantz is a tad more neutral and inoffensive - Roksan shows a tad more excitement and detail, both in bass and in higher frequencies. Differences between the amps are noticable but really tiny.

However, additional detail turns into a bit harsher rock music listening with K2, especially at higher volumes. I echo sewage man's experience as most rock recordings exhibit harshness - some brightness is present with 7001Ki as well (mostly due to poor recordings) but its somewhat amplified with K2 (hadn't really bothered me before with 7001Ki). I know this could be the fault of my speakers (MA RS6s) but after buying this amp and a new camera lens I can't afford a speaker upgrade/change anytime soon. My room has a lot of reflective surfaces (furniture, large sliding glass doors) which makes things a bit tough acoustically. I will be changing flats soon but at the moment this adds to the problem.

I have to decide whether to keep one amp or the other, and if keeping the K2, what to tweak to tame some of the brightness...

 

[plastic penguin]

Mmmm, tricky one this - I have the RS6's and when I tested them on the Marantz (not KI) it sounded to me to sound a tad loose at the top-end. Again this demonstrates how subjective hi-fi is.

John Duncan is a big fan of the Marantz 7001 KI, although I'm unsure whether he has tested it.

Over to you, Mr. Duncan. . .

 

[Anonymous]

Keep the Marantz I echo what you said about harshness when you drive the volume more and that is a real problem.

 

[plastic penguin]

Quick addition: drummerman tested the K2 with RS6's and wasn't impressed.

 

[Anonymous]

I found 7001Ki's top end well controlled but bottom a tad lean compared to K2, but again, difference is small.

Just to clarify, by 'loud' music I meant average SPLs of 86-88db (as measured by nifty SPL meter on my iPhone Too loud for everyday listening but what's a good system for if you can't occasionally enjoy it at 'proper' levels.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree absolutely,I found when you move the volume just over 12 the sound becomes very harsh and that to was disappointing. A good gauge for that is the disturbed album, on my NAD C352 it still sounds extremely controlled even at high volumes but on that amp, hmm it loses it's way, definitely becoming harsh.

 

[Gerrardasnails]

plastic penguin:Quick addition: drummerman tested the K2 with RS6's and wasn't impressed.

Drummerman is never impressed with the RS6s!

 

[Anonymous]

Keep the K2!

 

[plastic penguin]

Gerrardasnails:plastic penguin:Quick addition: drummerman tested the K2 with RS6's and wasn't impressed. Drummerman is never impressed with the RS6s!

It's a shame, poor ole sausage. . .

 

[Craig M.]

plastic penguin:
Gerrardasnails:plastic penguin:Quick addition: drummerman tested the K2 with RS6's and wasn't impressed. Drummerman is never impressed with the RS6s!

It's a shame, poor ole sausage. . .

i'm with drummerman on this one, not sure why he doesn't like them but it's that tweeter for me.

i wouldn't change the k2 until i'd heard it with a soft dome tweeter, if it still sounds harsh, then get rid. if it didn't sound harsh, i'd put up with it until i could afford new speakers.

 

[Anonymous]

From what you're saying, unless you can afford to consider different speakers in the near future perhaps you should keep the Marantz. There's some cracking deals on the Spendor S5 at the moment, one speaker of many that would work well with all but the most warm amps.

For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909. Having said all this, I've never got on with floorstanders. I heard the Spendor A6 with Arcam CD37 and A38 today and thought that the bass was OTT.

Funny old game hifi. It's taken me a long time to find what I like and it wasn't by the process I was expecting either. Maybe you could audition and decide after a week away from it.

 

[lordmortlock]

igglebert:
For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909.

To these ears - the same!

 

[plastic penguin]

igglebert:From what you're saying, unless you can afford to consider different speakers in the near future perhaps you should keep the Marantz. There's some cracking deals on the Spendor S5 at the moment, one speaker of many that would work well with all but the most warm amps. For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909. Having said all this, I've never got on with floorstanders. I heard the Spendor A6 with Arcam CD37 and A38 today and thought that the bass was OTT. Funny old game hifi. It's taken me a long time to find what I like and it wasn't by the process I was expecting either. Maybe you could audition and decide after a week away from it.

Have you compared the RS6's with price compatible floorstanders, Iggle? I'm really trying to get a handle on this (if I'm capable). I've heard Kef IQ7's, MS Mezzos and the new B&W CM range (sorry, can't remember the model) and the RS6's storm them. . .As we say: "It's a funny old game, Saint!"

 

[Anonymous]

lordmortlock:igglebert:
For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909.

To these ears - the same!
Haha, cheers for that. I'm trying to ignore the Wilson Benesch Curves that I saw today. I'm sure they whispered my name...speakers eh, can't trust 'em...

 

[Anonymous]

BTW, I don't mean to be overtly negative about the RS6s. I can understand why people like them! Cracking for the cash and for broad music tastes. I'm just a difficult nut to please.

EDIT PP, yes I have and I agree that the RS6s are an excellent purchase and a lot comes down to taste. I mean, the MA build quality is ridiculous for the money. The Kef iQ5 and iQ7 that I auditioned when looking at the RS6s were more neutral and controlled but also sounded less involving. The Rega R3 and R5 are superb for the cash and pummel the RS6 into the ground. They also sounded more polite to me. B&W 683 lasted about 25secs. Many would find my system lacking for bass so it really is a function of what you like. I'll probably never give up stand mounters so my view on floorstanders is a bit academic.

 

[Anonymous]

Ive recently demo'd just about every floorstander in £500-700 bracket, personally the Mezzo 6/quad 22l and my choice the rega r5's came out on top! but of course we all have differnt tastes.

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:From what you're saying, unless you can afford to consider different speakers in the near future perhaps you should keep the Marantz. There's some cracking deals on the Spendor S5 at the moment, one speaker of many that would work well with all but the most warm amps.For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909. Having said all this, I've never got on with floorstanders. I heard the Spendor A6 with Arcam CD37 and A38 today and thought that the bass was OTT.Funny old game hifi. It's taken me a long time to find what I like and it wasn't by the process I was expecting either. Maybe you could audition and decide after a week away from it.

Thanks Igs. I did see the good deals on the Spendors...What's the difference between the classis spendor S5e/S6e line and A5/A6? (For ex A5 vs S5e) Most here also think Spendors are not the speakers for rock music...

Btw...I think the reflective surfaces here may be more of a problem than I initially thought, because the loud treble reflects off surfaces and becomes really messy... I am listening at normal volumes now and things sound good.

 

[Anonymous]

chainrock:
igglebert:From what you're saying, unless you can afford to consider different speakers in the near future perhaps you should keep the Marantz. There's some cracking deals on the Spendor S5 at the moment, one speaker of many that would work well with all but the most warm amps.For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909. Having said all this, I've never got on with floorstanders. I heard the Spendor A6 with Arcam CD37 and A38 today and thought that the bass was OTT.Funny old game hifi. It's taken me a long time to find what I like and it wasn't by the process I was expecting either. Maybe you could audition and decide after a week away from it.

Thanks Igs. I did see the good deals on the Spendors...What's the difference between the classis spendor S5e/S6e line and A5/A6? (For ex A5 vs S5e) Most here also think Spendors are not the speakers for rock music...

Btw...I think the reflective surfaces here may be more of a problem than I initially thought, because the loud treble reflects off surfaces and becomes really messy... I am listening at normal volumes now and things sound good.

Yeah, I suffered badly when I had some MA RS1s in my rather reflective room. A thick, and I mean thick, rug helped.

I haven't spent enough time with both the new and old Spendor range to be a good person to advise. The new range is more detailed, has better bass articulation and I understand is a little less laid back. The A6 I heard today on Arcam kit certainly was not laid back in any way! I guess the S5e is probably not ideally suited to rock as it's very smooth and would give you a lovely clean and clear image; it depends on how you like your rock! Tricky one. Maybe some EPOS speakers would suit more, such as M22i.

 

[plastic penguin]

igglebert:BTW, I don't mean to be overtly negative about the RS6s. I can understand why people like them! Cracking for the cash and for broad music tastes. I'm just a difficult nut to please. EDIT PP, yes I have and I agree that the RS6s are an excellent purchase and a lot comes down to taste. I mean, the MA build quality is ridiculous for the money. The Kef iQ5 and iQ7 that I auditioned when looking at the RS6s were more neutral and controlled but also sounded less involving. The Rega R3 and R5 are superb for the cash and pummel the RS6 into the ground. They also sounded more polite to me. B&W 683 lasted about 25secs. Many would find my system lacking for bass so it really is a function of what you like. I'll probably never give up stand mounters so my view on floorstanders is a bit academic.

I've never heard the Regas, although I should. The problem is, with me, anyway, is that we are limited on space. The OH would like something less intrusive (she is used to mini systems) so a sub is totally out of the equation. We mainly listen to music although we like the sound quality of tv and DVD's. So for us the RS6's fit the bill perfectly on our budget.

Hi-fi is a compromise . . . a very nice one!

 

[SteveR750]

chainrock:
igglebert:From what you're saying, unless you can afford to consider different speakers in the near future perhaps you should keep the Marantz. There's some cracking deals on the Spendor S5 at the moment, one speaker of many that would work well with all but the most warm amps.For me the RS6 struggled to articulate bass very well resulting in muddiness, and the tweeter is a bit enthusiastic. Always wondered how they'd sound with a Quad 909. Having said all this, I've never got on with floorstanders. I heard the Spendor A6 with Arcam CD37 and A38 today and thought that the bass was OTT.Funny old game hifi. It's taken me a long time to find what I like and it wasn't by the process I was expecting either. Maybe you could audition and decide after a week away from it.

Thanks Igs. I did see the good deals on the Spendors...What's the difference between the classis spendor S5e/S6e line and A5/A6? (For ex A5 vs S5e) Most here also think Spendors are not the speakers for rock music...

Btw...I think the reflective surfaces here may be more of a problem than I initially thought, because the loud treble reflects off surfaces and becomes really messy... I am listening at normal volumes now and things sound good.

I found that the combination of spendor and K2 works brilliantly, especially for rock music, since there is simply no harshness when you really crank it up a bit. I've posted elsewhere that most rock recordings are pants; all artifical compression and no real acoustic - the question is do you want a sound that is neatly packaged, or to hear it like it really is. Personally I prefer to know how the recording was produced as well as how it was played. Remember a drum kit actually sounds quite harsh and very painful up close, and most rock is close mic'd in a studio....al this and bear in mind I have a CD6SE which isn't renowned for being warm and lush.

@hifinewbie - I too owned a NAD C352 for 4 years after 15 years with a 3130, (with 2 weeks of Azur 640c in between..) and I really cant see how you can claim the NAD is sweeter at high volumes compared to the K2, unless you mean it is less revealing perhaps? The NAD is a very competent budget amp, but frankly the K2 is in a different league of musicality, tonal neutrality and bottom end control!

 

[Anonymous]

Steve, I was considering Spendor A6s for later on and now that I see S6e's for a good price I am tempted (although as I said I shouldn't be making big purchases like these...!) Since you have K2+S6e combo you know exactly what my potential kit would sound like. Can you give more info on the sound? What do you/don't you like about it?

 

[Anonymous]

I've never heard the Regas, although I should. The problem is, with me, anyway, is that we are limited on space. The OH would like something less intrusive (she is used to mini systems) so a sub is totally out of the equation. We mainly listen to music although we like the sound quality of tv and DVD's. So for us the RS6's fit the bill perfectly on our budget.

Hi-fi is a compromise . . . a very nice one!

The rega r3 is more compact than the RS6 and the r5 about the same size as the rs6(maybe a bit deeper)...so space wouldnt be a problem. The rega's have a more balanced sound to my ears to boot

 

[SteveR750]

chainrock:
Steve, I was considering Spendor A6s for later on and now that I see S6e's for a good price I am tempted (although as I said I shouldn't be making big purchases like these...!) Since you have K2+S6e combo you know exactly what my potential kit would sound like. Can you give more info on the sound? What do you/don't you like about it?

<Deep Breath>

Some backgrond - the room is approx 16ft x 14ft with a cupboard / staircase in one corner. Its a new house with a rubbish thin paper walls that resonate at about 15Khz, and reflect all over the place, there are no soft furnishings on the walls, and no curtains either. Floor is carpeted, and usual array of furniture as its a lounge. The system you can see below, speakers are spiked through the carpets, and I stand on them to push them into the underlying concrete floor (its covered in self levelling screed).

Previous system was a NAD C352 / 542 with B&W DM602 S3 primarily for its massive slam and impact that only NAD can offer to my ears at that price. I also had a Linn Sondek / Ittok / Goldring 1042 for a reasonably large vinyl collection. Musical tastes are primarily a mixture of 70's 80's rock, so think ACDC, Lizzy, Sabbath, Zeppelin, Iron Maiden etc etc, plus a lot of blues - ray vaughan, winter, raitt, john lee and john mayall through to Madeleine Peyroux, Nora Jones, Dire Straits, Josh Rouse, Keb Mo etc etc plus a few classical and choral works chucked in too.

I dislike harshness, but listen loud, and since I play guitar regularly I know how loud a pub gig can get even with an un mic'd drum kit, though i rarely get to that level as the neighbours wouldnt be impressed. I fond that the Spendors were the perfect foil to the K2 and Cyrus - initially I found the Cyrus too lean, despite the lush sound of the K2. The S6e's are laid back, but once you start listening, the lack of initial wow factor is compensated for me by the realisation that they sound so neutral, and the dynamics are always subtle and therefore far more impressive. In fact I dont really need to crank it up that much to enjoy it, unlike my old system, which was always slightly unsatisfying as it became more compressed at high levels, this system is much less so. I also find that the bottom end is well extended, with good slam and control, so its easy to distinguish bass guitar notes on most tracks where its been recorded well, and also you can tell whether its a full size kick drum or a smaller jazz kit for example. Some recordings sound really flat and a bit tedious, then others are absolutely full of life and vibrance, so its pretry revealing of the recording both technically from a production view point, but also from the quality of the musicianship. OK, so to most people ACDC are a one horse trick, albeit a rather magnificent specimen of horse; but now even more so do I simply know that no one on this planet can keep time as well as Phil Rudd can! The bottom lie is that it might not have an immediately impressive showroom sound, but if you take the time to sit ad listen it really shows up all th detail and nuances that I could hope for, and are deeply impressive the more you listen to them. Subtle and understated perhaps, but mightily competent!

 

[matengawhat]

could there be something up with this amp - i am sure the original seller complained of this amp lacking warmth and sounding harsh - don't rem the what hi fi review mentioning this - i also used to have the the LIII which i know is different but ran that with both rs6s and rs8s with no issues - just seems strange both you and original owner both feel it lacking when its had such praise from reviewers

 

[Anonymous]

Oh it's definitely a better amp in terms of bass extension and detail between the notes but perhaps because it has that detail it does emphasise the harshness of some types of music more with it. I was not implying that the NAD was simply a better amp but as I do like music which might be considered harsh, well among other music to, but specifically hard rock music, I don't want it to descend into the harshness, regardless of whether that is the product of a more revealing amp, to me it is perhaps then too revealing as the volume increased. but just my opinion of course.