Which Set Up ? Naim, Cyrus, Musical Fidelity

[satycool]

On the edge of purchasing a new Hi-fi with £3000 budget, but still not sure what to go for. Have been debating on the now three below (droped the Pioneer set up). Looking for a system mainly my large electronic CD collection that would benifit from the hi-fi, esp sound that benifits dubby music, deep-house, Idm, techno, ambient and also rock/heavy metal. Radio/Streamer can be added later if not already added in the set-up. I put some Youtube tracks which give an idea of the music I like and hope the systems will benift them. The system will be put into a meduim sized room and probably would play it loud at times too.

Thanks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBv6PsHYAz8&list=PL775703CBC1888A19&index=18&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WAklqG0JTs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1TaPmoTtWg&list=PL775703CBC1888A19&index=9&feature=plpp_video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeAMpdtG6bg&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_5zN1BrqeA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bN4rE5se_8I&list=PL775703CBC1888A19&index=20&feature=plpp_video

- Cyrus (DAC XP+, CDXT SE2 - minus the power X Mono amps for now) -

http://www.cyrusaudio.com/builder?series=x&options%5B%5D=CDs

I like the upgrageable path with plenty of flexibilty for the future. Seems to be the best in its field with CD sound quality.

Don't hate but not to keen on the looks as they do seem a bit car-stereo looking. Can be expensive and has been debated about the sound - though the above set-up has been praised here by What-Hi fi.

- Naim (NaimUniti 2)-

http://www.naimaudio.com/hifi-products/pdt-type/145

Like the look, like the all in one idea, seems to be loud at 70watts per channel and can add an extra 70watt power-amp, streaming seems to be a breeze with simplicity. Great remote app. Has been praised for its sound .

Limited upgrade path and attachment path. Not sure the all in one unit can equal the dedicated seperates of above Cyrus or below MF. The all-in-one-units is probably the lower ended CD and DAC Naim units. Might lack bass and treble.

- Muical Fidelity (M1 Series: CDT/DAC/PWR-AMP) -

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/products/m1series/

Looks great with good price, DAC has seem to got positive reviews(though to0 few to confirm properly), apparently sounds as good as higher priced equipment.

Not sure about the Clic streamer (If I upgrade)- seems to be jack of all trades but master of none with wireless connection problems, can't do 24/192 over wirless, Apple needs Twonky to work, dropouts over wireless, long loading at times, also some issues with certain files and HD sound streaming problems - all a bit of a concern as I might take a dip into streaming and need Clic for internet radio - sort of spoiling the M1 set-up. Ipod Usb is also at the back...The M1 may be unable to compete in sound quality as with Naim and Cyrys as M1 is the is the lower end MF models.

 

[CnoEvil]

I think it's time to stop looking and debating.......and start listening.

I'm not trying to be smart, but the answers you'll get will depend on the taste of the person giving them....I prefer Musical fidelity; Naim owners will steer you in that direction; and likewise, Cyrus will be the choice of people who prefer it.

 

[satycool]

I wish I could but I live in an area where there's only 1 decent hi-fi shop which has more Naim seperate products and Tv amps, no Uniti2 at moment. Has some MF products but no real full set ups and no M1's at moment. No Cyrus products...Also time is an issue due to my odd working ours!

Do you MF M1 DAC and CD ? if so would you say it has loudnesis for a medium size room, plus would you say it can handle soft subtle bass well as on Electronic Dub and Dubclaitor (Youtube link).

 

[stevebrock]

I'm finding quite a few hi if shops stopping stocking Cyrus I don't know why this is?

 

[CnoEvil]

I can't give you a direct answer to your question, as I was referring in general to the "house sound" of each brand. On the MF front, I've only heard the M3i and M6i which are great for the money.

If it was me, I would forgo a CDP and get a streamer, which in my case would be a Linn DS (Sneaky or Majik). I would also be looking at the M3i which should cope with your needs.

Even if your dealers don't stock all of what you are looking for, they will probably have enough to see which brand is likely to have the sound you prefer......you can mix brands if necessary.

 

[BronC]

Any thoughts about what speakers you want? This could determine which option you use.

I have cyrus driving spendors and I v happy with that combo

 

[satycool]

Speakers I will get a bit later. I know the ones I have now won't do any of the systems real justice - but I can't afford the whole pakage at present. I just need to give my music collection justice and spending 3K must feel worth it. My CDs must sound good - this is probaly why the Cyrus top end system interest me(and can upgrade needed amps later - the extra cost needed is holding me back). The MF M1-CD1/DAC combo interest me too (and maybe M3i cd/amp series as mentioned above - though no radio/streamer seem to be on the M3i series - which I might want to add later too ?); even Naim 2 with its improved CD function and seems to be strong contender all rounder...Speakers I understand are just as important as the system, but If I know I have the right system that do my music justice, then speakers will be easier to match up later...I rather get a great system with the money I have now, then not bad or decent speaker and systems for 3k.

What Cyrus system do you have ?

 

[CnoEvil]

There is no reason why you can't mix the M3i with the M1 Clic (or any other streamer for that matter).

 

[satycool]

I still need a cd player as I love my collection and many rare cds I just like the whole package about them - the same way people love vynil. I will consider a streamer at later date(unless end up with Naim) as I can see myself using both cd and streaming. My cd collection is important though.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi staycool

In your initial post you've posted - On the edge of purchasing a new Hi-fi with £3000 budget & Cyrus (DAC XP+, CDXT SE2 - minus the power X Mono amps for now).

The reason i ask is because just DAC XP+ and the CDXT SE2 would take you past your budget of £3k. To clarify -

In the first instance are you just looking for a source at around £3k - £4k to be used with your existing amplification? If so, what amplification and speakers will you be using please?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[shooter]

..... (or any other streamer for that matter).

http://www.logitech.com/en-gb/speakers-audio/wireless-music-systems/squeezebox-touch

 

[BronC]

I now have the top end Cyrus system driving the top end Spendor speakers.

It took me many years to get there by slowly upgrading my kit when I could afford to. I used Ebay and ex-demo mainly to purchase the original kit and do the upgrades.

I think on ebay for your £3k you should be able to get the DAC XP+ and the CD XT + 2 x-powers. You can get your first x-power and run that in stereo and then when you get the 2nd one you can run them in mono.

The x-power even in mono is not as good as the old mono-x's you can still get on e-bay but they are cheaper and I think more easily sell-able later.

It is worth saving up for the new x-200 or 300's in the medium term. They are a significant improvement on the old mono-x

 

[Roby]

I still need a cd player as I love my collection and many rare cds I just like the whole package about them - the same way people love vynil. I will consider a streamer at later date(unless end up with Naim) as I can see myself using both cd and streaming. My cd collection is important though.

Same here I completly agree ;-)

I know I never auditioned any of the kits mentioned.

Altrough I auditioned the MF M3i & the Naim Niat xs. (don't know about Cyrus I'm shure they sound provably great but was never tempted because of toy looks )

Here is my personal review.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/musical-fidelity-m6i-or-naim-nait-xs-to-drive-my-bw-683

One thing you really need to determine for you self before making you make your choice.

Is wich presentation you afther.....Despite all the advices you're going to get.

D'ont get me wrong in my case the advices where great an helped me true my desission an most of all learned me a lot an still do, It also helped me determine wich soundstage I was looking for.

I mean be carefull a system can sound great when you listen to it at first but really also consider if it will not get tyering on the long term 'Will I still love my system as on the first day?"

IMO

I would say MF in general have more puch an will perform better on electronics, pop, rock....

Naim: was more musical an mellow so it was sweet on jazz & vocals...lacking somwhat entertaiment on techno, an rock...

I have a meaning on cyrus based on what I read but is not relevant as I never heard them except once 2min in a hifi show....

So to me MF was in general a better allrounder.

But like Ceno said I'm a MF owner so I might be a litle puchier on that side as we all have our preferences.

My advice is:

Take the advices you get because even if people have there preferences it give you a good general Idear...

An go demo... Personaly I demoed a few amps an the one I hesitated I heard them 4 or 5 times before I made my dissision.

afther your demo's an you're pointed to the right direction you try to get some more info before making your final choice an I'm shore you will make the right one (at least that's how it worked for me)

One more thing I would advice you to demo with the kind of speakers you would preferably get in the futere to avoid later surprises. (I mean speakers with the same kind of presentation)

Good luck ;-)

 

[satycool]

If I do decide to go for Cyrus I will have to start selling, maybe borrow, and probaly wait longer for the Cyrus set up - I do find the cd/dac combination appealing though. If ending up Cyrus, I will probably go for the X Mono 200 to go with the CD/DAC - this would be the top end Cyrus set up but also a slow and expensive process(and would probably need PWR AMP too!)...Speakers again I would rather wait and get some decent ones (not sure which ones at moment) that would benfit the system I end up with: Naim, MF, or Cyrus. I can be a bit more flexible with 3k - but it will take a longer sadly!

 

[satycool]

Would you say the M1 CDT and M1 DAC can compete with M3i, or would you opt for M3i over M1 CD/DAC ? I like the look and set-up, also like the idea I can add extra M1 Power amp to boost it to 100watts per channel - which should be loud I hope!

 

[El Hefe]

Would you say the M1 CDT and M1 DAC can compete with M3i, or would you opt for M3i over M1 CD/DAC ? I like the look and set-up, also like the idea I can add extra M1 Power amp to boost it to 100watts per channel - which should be loud I hope!

Are you comparing M1 CDT/Dac to the M3i amp?

The M1 CDT/DAC combo is more luscious sounding compared to M3i CDP. But I partner it with M6i and M1 PWR.

On the issues mentioned about the CLiC, I do not experience all that. And since its launch, ther were 2 firmware updates that should rectify all that.

But you are right, the 24/192 files canno be streamed wirelessly. But I think other streamers are the same too.

 

[satycool]

M1 DAC/PWR/CD compared to M3i CDP

CLic - now looks more appealing http://www.audiostream.com/content/musical-fidelity-m1-clic-follow ...But is it as good as Naim Uniti 2 ?

I am starting to look more towards the MF M1 set-up, price wise and I understand it copes well with the music I mainly listen too. Naim U2 still looks interesting and within budget. The Cyrus seems a great choice for my cds - but price!

 

[El Hefe]

M1 DAC/PWR/CD compared to M3i CDP

CLic - now looks more appealing http://www.audiostream.com/content/musical-fidelity-m1-clic-follow ...But is it as good as Naim Uniti 2 ?

I am starting to look more towards the MF M1 set-up, price wise and I understand it copes well with the music I mainly listen too. Naim U2 still looks interesting and within budget. The Cyrus seems a great choice for my cds - but price!

Its very odd the experience Michael Lavorgna facse with the unit. I have no issues at all playing FLAC files 24/192 either via wireless, ethernet and definitely no issue with the front USB. The wireless, once in a while drop outs do occur. But to me thats due to my el cheapo wifi router, not the CLiC.

Yo cant have the M1 DAC/PWR/CD combo as the DAC and CD player does not have a a volume control. But you can have M1 CLiC/CDT/PWR as the CLiC comes with a volume control.

Have a search on the forum for my M1 PWR, CLiC and CDT review.

 

[mondo58]

Hi Satycool,

Have you considered just going for a streaming system? Lots of pros in this approach - no faffing about with swapping (and finding...) CD's, instant access to your music files, no loss in audio quality with a good DAC, plus you might have enough dish left over for decent speakers! Pointless having higher end equipment up-front, if your speakers are not up to par! As one of the other guys states, Linn Majik, or the Cyrus streamline should be ok - personally, I have the Cyrus 8XPD-QX with digital input from a Sonos system, which is a joy to use and listen to! Plus you can always upgrade with monoblocs etc at a later date....

 

[mondo58]

Hi Satycool,

Have you considered just going for a streaming system? Lots of pros in this approach - no faffing about with swapping (and finding...) CD's, instant access to your music files, no loss in audio quality with a good DAC, plus you might have enough dish left over for decent speakers! Pointless having higher end equipment up-front, if your speakers are not up to par! As one of the other guys states, Linn Majik, or the Cyrus streamline should be ok - personally, I have the Cyrus 8XPD-QX with digital input from a Sonos system, which is a joy to use and listen to! Plus you can always upgrade with monoblocs etc at a later date....

 

[CnoEvil]

Have you considered just going for a streaming system? Lots of pros in this approach - no faffing about with swapping (and finding...) CD's, instant access to your music files, no loss in audio quality with a good DAC, plus you might have enough dish left over for decent speakers! Pointless having higher end equipment up-front, if your speakers are not up to par! As one of the other guys states, Linn Majik, or the Cyrus streamline should be ok - personally, I have the Cyrus 8XPD-QX with digital input from a Sonos system, which is a joy to use and listen to! Plus you can always upgrade with monoblocs etc at a later date....

This would also be my view, having changed from CDP to Streamer (as an ingrained sceptic)......get the right Streamer, and I would go one step further and argue that you will get better audio quality.

A CDP is only eating into your precious budget, so I would encourage you to get a Streamer first, and only get a CDP if, after a few months, you can't live without it.

 

[satycool]

Hmmm I would rather get CDP first then Streamer as its just the physical ownership and curiosity my albums/eps/singles bring me when going through my collection which make me want to listen to that album, which I don't seem to get browsing music on my Ipod/PC/HDD/Ipad...Also I have over a 1000+ cds and love the art work esp from Fax, Rather Intersting, ZeECc, Echocord, Binemusic, Silent Season, Em:t labels..etc with there distinctive and collective look about them, making me always more interested in coming back to the albums when seeing the physical art and format - it just won't happen with a streamer for me - though access top your collection is ideal. This is probably partly the reason I'll get it later as I do see the benefits, but just like kindle and the physical book - there's that love for the physical thing and at your finger tips access to the other...Now this is where Naim Uniti 2/Musical Fidelity seems a good purchase - it all depends which can give better sound performance, esp with the music I listen too, and I suppose Peter Andre and The Cheeky Girls (Yes! my wife has great taste in music!...Cyrus I think is becoming out of reach, esp when I consider the amps, speakers and power amp and then streamer reallly needed to get the best out of the DAC and CDP.

As mentioned above - would this mean I have to get the MF Clic to control vloume ? I also understand the newer late 2011 and 12 Clic and M1 units have system updates and improved performance - how would I know I have the latest M1's ?

I also realized my Fax cds also have DTS disc included on some releases - can any of these systems play them ?

 

[CnoEvil]

By continuing to push this point, I run the risk of coming across as stubborn, argumentative and pedantic.....which is certainly not my intention.

I would argue that there is nothing to stop you enjoying all the aspects of physical ownership ie. buying, browsing and enjoying your artwork.... but when it comes to playing them, the only difference with streaming, is that you are pressing "play" on a screen, instead of pushing a button on a player. This way you can have the best of both worlds.

With a collection like that, I think it's very sensible to preserve them by ripping to a HD, as this won't deteriorate over time like a physical format.

Now, I promise not to mention it again.

Cno

 

[shooter]

A HD will fail though and iif you are seriously considering the HD route then I would have at least one HD as back if not two. Life expectancy of an HD is around 5 years average and this needs to be part of your consideration. I've ripped around 300 cd's to my HD and it takes some time, you won't want to loose it all because of a fail with no back up.

 

[CnoEvil]

A HD will fail though and iif you are seriously considering the HD route then I would have at least one HD as back if not two. Life expectancy of an HD is around 5 years average and this needs to be part of your consideration. I've ripped around 300 cd's to my HD and it takes some time, you won't want to loose it all because of a fail with no back up.

You are of course right, and on the slim chance I started to win this format argument, I was going to highlight the importance of back up.