Which music server and DAC?

krish123

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hi there guys, iv recently had a transition of my system, from home cinema to pure 2 channel. My setup now consists of: Monitor audio rs6 speakers, Musical fidelity A5 preamp and 550k power amplifiers, Sugden cd21 series 2 cd player.

Now few interesting things to note here. When i purchased the A5 preamp i took along my old pair of bookself speakers (as the guy sold his speakers so had nothin to demo on), anyway his setup was at the time exactly the same as mine i.e mf a5 preamp and 550k power amps, only diff was his cdp it was a high end naim one. the sound was simply stunning even through my mission m71's. Now with my system i simply dont get performance anywhere near to this and i still dont know why. However as i haave the same amps as the demo in which i was blown away with i can only put it down to being my cd player, what do you guys think? I get the feeling my sytem doesnt have synergy but i just dont get sound anywhere near to what i experienced at this persons house when purchasing my a5 preamp.

Now if i am to change my cd player it wont be replaced with another cd player as i really dont use cd's anymore. so based on what iv said what do you think is the best option for me? a music server and dac? Im really unsure about all this type of tech so would be great if someone could tell me what i need and what will give best performance etc.

thanks.
 
A

Anonymous

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Hi there, I am a clueless newby but was wondering if his room was a lot different to yours, either size or what was in there (curtains, sofas etc?).

As I am also looking at servers will be interested in what people say to you. Fwiw I am thinking of buying a 2 terabyte nas rather than keeping a computer on all the time, and I've auditioned the naim uniti series to play it back through, but I haven't got the bass sound right yet.
 

krish123

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i dont think it was the room affecting the sound because the sound was totally different , the room could not change the sound that much, plus the room my system is in isnt a bad one at all and the speakers are placed appropriately.

I still need to know what a music server and dacs actually do, i have brief knowledge of this but not comprehensive enough as yet.
 

jjbomber

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Not sure what you want for a front end. You say you are not going to use CDs anymore, but what are you replacing them with?It can be a case oof ripping your CDS to a NAS device and streaming from there. You could be using a service such as Spotify or Napster. Let us know and I'm sure we can help.
 

Overdose

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I think that the difference that you heard between your system and the other, is room acoustic and speaker placement relative to your listening position. Room acoustics are usually an afterthought for most people, but is a very underestimated component in the overall hi-fi system.

As for streamer/DAC, you have many options from all in one streamers, to various combinations of streamers, DACs and preamps. Home auditions are the key here, as always. A good user interface is important with a streamer though, as if operating remotely, you will need something intuitive and user friendly.
 

krish123

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thanks for the comments, i just cant imagine the room making so much of a difference. in fact his room was quite different to usual square of rectangle rooms as the living room and kitchen were split up however it was all open as one room.

as for cd's id rather play music from a harddrive but only if the device allows me to organise the music into playlists etc, what device would allow for this? im looking something basically like an ipod but the ipod hasnt got the quality of sound.
 

Overdose

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If the iPod is in a digital dock (ND-S1 for example), it has every bit as good a sound quality as any other digital transport.

Regarding the streaming options, you may be able to incorporate any existing technology, such as Pc or laptop.

Do you have a smartphone of any type?
 

CnoEvil

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Hifi is a strange business, and changes are not always easy to pin down.

The things that may have / definitely have changed are:
- The Source
- The room acoustics
- The speaker positioning
- The speaker stands
- The cables
- Whether the floor is suspended or not
- The size of the room
- Construction of the walls

It's a matter of elimination to see where the problem lies.

My suggestion for a source would either be a streamer from Linn, Naim or Cyrus, or alternatively SBT + Dac
 

Overdose

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krish123 said:
my ipod is connected via an aux cable not dock, and i have a laptop with all my music stored on itunes. yes i have a htc desire z smart phone.

If you don't mind your laptop being wired to the hifi, the easiest and cheapest solution for a starter, is to get a cheapish USB DAC and connect the laptop and hifi. Then use the iTunes remote app to control the laptop. Alternatively, you could try a different media player, such as XBMC and use the Android remote app for that.
 

krish123

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thanks cno evil. im looking for a long term soluion here and a way to improve sound quality so what will a dac and music streamer bring? what do they both actually do ?
 

CnoEvil

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krish123 said:
thanks cno evil. im looking for a long term soluion here and a way to improve sound quality so what will a dac and music streamer bring? what do they both actually do ?

Back in the day, when vinyl and cassette decks/reel to reel were the only choice, sound was in the analogue domain, allowing us to hear it.

Fast forwarding to the digital age, means most music is all in 1s and 0s, which we can't hear, unless it's turned back to analogue....in other words, you need a Digital to Analogue Converter (DAC)

All digital devices (CDs, Streamers, Blu-rays etc) need a DAC, and Dacs like everything else, can be of different qualities.

If you connect the digital device using some analogue cables, you are using the Dac in the device. If the device has a "digital out" (eg. digital coax or optical cable), it can transfer the 1s and 0s to an external Dac, which can be better than the one in the device ie. upgrading the Dac.

A streamer is a device which is able to take a "digital stream" (of 1s and 0s) and turn it into sound, through its built-in dac.

That stream can come from the internet (eg. Spotify and Napster) or your own music, which has been "ripped" from a CD or downloaded from the Net, onto a Hard Drive.

Streamers have an advantage over CDPs, as they don't have to read a spinning disc and have no moving parts with motors that can interfere with the sound, or wear out.

I'm sorry if that is all old news to you, but thought I'd err on the safe side. I'm far from technical, but hope that helps.

Cno
 

krish123

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thanks for that m8, jus what i needed. so it looks like il need a streamer and dac then. Im planning on having all my music on a harddrive, can this be organised and put into playlists via the streamer? as i would need my music organised sumhow. It also seems that some streamers come with a built in dac, isit better to go this way or get a seperate dac also?
 

CnoEvil

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krish123 said:
thanks for that m8, jus what i needed. so it looks like il need a streamer and dac then. Im planning on having all my music on a harddrive, can this be organised and put into playlists via the streamer? as i would need my music organised sumhow. It also seems that some streamers come with a built in dac, isit better to go this way or get a seperate dac also?

A more expensive streamer (eg. Linn DS) doesn't need another Dac, as the one in it is good enough.

Something like the much cheaper SBT "may" need a Dac to improve the sound.

IMO The best way to store music is on a NAS (Network Attached Storage), which is a Hard Drive that is part of the network. It is usually configured for UPnP (User Plug 'n Play), which is a universal standard allowing any other UPnP device (iThingys, Laptops, Nintendos etc and PDAs) to access and control it.

Thus by having your music stored like this, it is like a "music bank" that can be accessed (potentially) all over the house.

Once on the NAS, it can be organized like you say...Linn uses Kinsky. You can learn a lot by having a good rummage around the Linn Website.
 

krish123

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right so it seems il need a NAS device, does this come internally into a streamer or? can u guys reccomend me a decent streamer and nas device. i dont need one with a preamp built in as i already have one.
 

CnoEvil

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krish123 said:
right so it seems il need a NAS device, does this come internally into a streamer or? can u guys reccomend me a decent streamer and nas device. i dont need one with a preamp built in as i already have one.

This NAS was recommended by Gregvet:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B005XXVM42/ref=noref?ie=UTF8&psc=1&s=computers

I like the Linn DS and here is the best value I've seen the Sneaky (can be used as a source):
http://www.superfi.co.uk/p-3935-linn-sneaky-ds-networked-media-player.aspx

If you have a bigger budget, the Majik DS is well worth considering.

If you want "hands on" help with installation, buy from a dealer; or next best, is to use this crowd: http://www.ripcaster.co.uk/ who are very knowledgeable and helpful (and will talk you through it)....it does cost a bit more, but worth it if you don't have help.

I like the Linn solution, but you should also check out those from Naim and Cyrus
 

krish123

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wow that NAS is very expensive. can u use a normal harddrive? Also if i buy a streamer and play that off my laptop what is the difference in doing that from pluggin in an aux cable into my laptop and playing music that way ?
 

CnoEvil

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krish123 said:
wow that NAS is very expensive. can u use a normal harddrive? Also if i buy a streamer and play that off my laptop what is the difference in doing that from pluggin in an aux cable into my laptop and playing music that way ?

I'm far from technical, and use a NAS, so am not best placed to answer your question.

I heard streaming from an iPod, a Laptop and a PC using Airport Express, which I described here: http://www.whathifi.com/forum/accessories/an-evening-with-touraj-moghaddam-vertere

I think the D-Fi 3.5 jack -> RCA cable from Vertere sounded great (though the rest of the cabling was all Vertere)....see if you can try this for yourself.
 

shafesk

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Hi there, it sucks that you have such high end gear but are not getting the sound you crave. If you were happy with the Naim n Musical Fidelity combo then you should get a Naim streamer such as the NDS which is inspired by Naim CDPS. Sometimes a few cable changes and speaker positioning is all it takes and maybe worth experimenting before you spend such an amount. Ask your friend what he has done to his setup aside from his Naim CDP, often there are things we don't notice like mains cables, interconnects, speaker supports, conditioners.
 

krish123

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yes i know, its really fustrating, i even used the bookshelf speakers that took down to demo when i bought the preamp, still didnt sound like it did on his system :/. maybe it is my room, its laminated, but i have put two squeare pieces of carpet under the areas of the speakers. the speakers are around 2-2.5 m away from each other and around 0.5m -1m away from the back wall. I recently had blinds put into the room, the walls are bare , and there is a snooker table in the middle of the room. Other than that there is not much else in the room apart from my hifi rack and a wooden rack for cd's.

when i demoed his system the music had such great depth and was so realistic you could really feel the voices, and it had such great presence, you could feel the power even from my small bookself speakers. I cant see the room being responsible for all of these factors. and the only difference to his system to mine was the source.
 

dragon76

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Krish, I was in your shoes some time ago and decided to stop using CDs and move over to computer based setup Your choices are either laptop/PC + DAC or a streamer/hard disk player. On the latter I decided not to go with this as the current streamers are quite basic sonically (many hi fi manufacturers are just trying to get smarter on computer audio and make mistakes) or very expensive whose price can hardly be justified. My preference is PC and DAC. For you it really depends on how much you want to invest into DAC, but I suggest you pick the one with good asynchronous hi-res USB input, these ones sound really good without a need for any USB-SPDIF converters. On the PC/laptop side I use a dedicated self-made PC, but your choice maybe a laptop, which should not be expensive, but powerful enough to process music files. The key here is to properly set it up to improve sound quality. I can send you one or two links with manual how to do this properly even if you have little technical knowledge.

I suggest you put your files on external hard drive and do not bother with NAS/streaming if you only have one music system. NAS are expensive and you also need to invest into your home network.

When you set up your laptop/PC you can use Ipad to remote control any of your media player you'll be using. Such apps are available and work pretty reliably. In fact they work better than dedicated ipad apps for many ready made streamers.

Hope this helps.
 

krish123

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hi dragon your response was very informative. from wat u are saying i will be better off goin down the laptop/dac route. so i have all my music stored on itunes how do i get this to play through my system and go through the dac? iv connected my laptop to my hifi using an aux cable but the sound quality is poor, i guess this is wat the dac is there for?
 

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