Now this is not an inflammatory comment but we hear comments like it makes the bass bigger, gives the instruments more life etc and actually I am not disputing that but surely there is a way of measuring this? and if there is not, then how do speaker manufacturers go about their r&d?
Where is the proof that different speaker cables sound different?
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idc
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The way the cable is manufactured is an influence,for example; reducing RFI, where the cable acts as an ariel and picks up interference and the quality of metal used within the cable; the purer the copper the better and silver is better than copper.
As for R&D, that is down to listening. No measuring instrument exists that can replace the ear.
As for R&D, that is down to listening. No measuring instrument exists that can replace the ear.
As for material, whether it's 12 gauge etc, well, 12 gauge speaker cables can appear at very low prices, so that can't be one of the major factors.
Having read loads of threads about speaker cables and 'roomier bass, clearer treble, brighter' etc etc. I'm pretty sure there is an element of 'wanting to believe there'll be a difference' and thereby convincing oneself that there is indeed a difference..Could be wrong, just dunno!
You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
I compared my QED micro cable to my friends QED revelation and there definitely was a noticable difference. I hadn't heard other speaker cables for a long time so was quite sceptical myself to.
We listened to a few slipknot songs and prodigy, the bass was snappier, more pronounced and the instruments definitely had more life to them, it sounded more upfront.
We listened to a few slipknot songs and prodigy, the bass was snappier, more pronounced and the instruments definitely had more life to them, it sounded more upfront.
idc
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hi fi newbie: Surely a bigger or deeper bass can be measured? I don't see why this is not possible.
I do not think that that is the case in the same way how do you measure the flavours in wine or tea or whisky. To do that job tasters are employed with excellent pallets. In the perfume industry people are employed to do the sniffing (so I am informed) and can be considered experts in their field. So a cable manufacturer will listen to their cables on different systems.
Why should something have to measurable by a machine for it to considered true? In any case there will be some sort of device that can measure the different frequencies of a cable playing through a speaker and the minimum and maximum. But that does not always equate to what the ear picks up, presumably because we all have different ones.
I do not think that that is the case in the same way how do you measure the flavours in wine or tea or whisky. To do that job tasters are employed with excellent pallets. In the perfume industry people are employed to do the sniffing (so I am informed) and can be considered experts in their field. So a cable manufacturer will listen to their cables on different systems.
Why should something have to measurable by a machine for it to considered true? In any case there will be some sort of device that can measure the different frequencies of a cable playing through a speaker and the minimum and maximum. But that does not always equate to what the ear picks up, presumably because we all have different ones.
professorhat
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drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
It can only ever come down to the fact that everyones ears are calibrated differently. Snappier, more pronounced,more life and upfront don't really mean anything to me. There doesn't appear a definitive list of descriptions that can be used to describe sound differences with speaker cables.
So i'll not go out spending vast amounts of loot in the hope of finding the holy grail of cable.
So i'll not go out spending vast amounts of loot in the hope of finding the holy grail of cable.
If those ideas don't mean anything to you in the general sense, then there is no point in ever investing in more costly speakers because those are descriptions which i and many others will use in those instances to.
professorhat:
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
True that.
However, the lhc - he doesnt need any really.
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
True that.
However, the lhc - he doesnt need any really.
8009514:It can only ever come down to the fact that everyones ears are calibrated differently. Snappier, more pronounced,more life and upfront don't really mean anything to me. There doesn't appear a definitive list of descriptions that can be used to describe sound differences with speaker cables.
I don't mean to be rude but just because those terms don't mean anything to you doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't real. It just means you haven't experienced them yet. There's plenty of things I don't understand but that doesn't stop them from existing.
So i'll not go out spending vast amounts of loot in the hope of finding the holy grail of cable.
And you'll be perfectly happy, so don't worry about it, other people do notice these things, so they'll keep trying things out. Other people have said that bi-wiring makes no difference, but I've used it and heard a distinct difference and I'm the last person to convince myself that something is improved just because I want it to be, if I'd heard nothing I'd have taken the additional cable off and used it elsewhere and lost nothing into the bargain, but there was a clear difference, so I left them in.
I don't mean to be rude but just because those terms don't mean anything to you doesn't mean they don't exist or aren't real. It just means you haven't experienced them yet. There's plenty of things I don't understand but that doesn't stop them from existing.
So i'll not go out spending vast amounts of loot in the hope of finding the holy grail of cable.
And you'll be perfectly happy, so don't worry about it, other people do notice these things, so they'll keep trying things out. Other people have said that bi-wiring makes no difference, but I've used it and heard a distinct difference and I'm the last person to convince myself that something is improved just because I want it to be, if I'd heard nothing I'd have taken the additional cable off and used it elsewhere and lost nothing into the bargain, but there was a clear difference, so I left them in.
Surely if cables make a difference to the sound, can't a bunch of sine waves be sent down different cables and the results recorded on a graph? That way, we could see that certain cables perform differently in the low frequencies?
i think it was on youtube i saw a cable manufacturer do just that, jazzy. of course, he could have been cheating in some way but there were differences on the oscilloscope.
There's wads of stuff out there on the net, including a lot of highly technical papers. I'm neutral on the issue, but here's what one newspaper found:
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/65929
Be careful with the conclusions, though, because the size of the sample isn't mentioned, and you'd expect a 50% result statistically anyway.
Also note the size of the cable run. From what I've read, the longer the run, the more you'll probably hear a difference, and they'e using 16ft runs here
http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/65929
Be careful with the conclusions, though, because the size of the sample isn't mentioned, and you'd expect a 50% result statistically anyway.
Also note the size of the cable run. From what I've read, the longer the run, the more you'll probably hear a difference, and they'e using 16ft runs here
the_lhc:
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this
Where's your proof?
ÿ
The burden of proof is on those that make the claims.
Howeverÿ
If you care do do some googling on any decent research and double-blind tests carried out , the statistics point to only 50% of people telling any difference , a 50% result is a negative .
If a new drug was tested and found to be only 50%ÿsuccessfulÿwhen compared to a placebo, it would be binned.
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this
Where's your proof?
ÿ
The burden of proof is on those that make the claims.
Howeverÿ
If you care do do some googling on any decent research and double-blind tests carried out , the statistics point to only 50% of people telling any difference , a 50% result is a negative .
If a new drug was tested and found to be only 50%ÿsuccessfulÿwhen compared to a placebo, it would be binned.
professorhat:
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
ÿ
ÿ
I agree with you to a point.
We have good evidence that cables work (they produce sound) , But we have no proof between the difference in cables, onlyÿsomeone'sÿopinion and or beliefÿ. look at Christianity or any of the monotheistic religions , no proof whatsoever but a hell of a lot of people live by them.
ÿ
ÿ
ÿ
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
ÿ
ÿ
I agree with you to a point.
We have good evidence that cables work (they produce sound) , But we have no proof between the difference in cables, onlyÿsomeone'sÿopinion and or beliefÿ. look at Christianity or any of the monotheistic religions , no proof whatsoever but a hell of a lot of people live by them.
ÿ
ÿ
ÿ
drumlins4ever:professorhat:
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
I agree with you to a point.
We have good evidence that cables work (they produce sound) , But we have no proof between the difference in cables, only someone's opinion and or belief . look at Christianity or any of the monotheistic religions , no proof whatsoever but a hell of a lot of people live by them.
I was wondering how long it would be until God was mentioned.
drumlins4ever:You are exactly right, there is yet NO scientific evidence for any of this ,,, Like religious people its down to pure belief .
Much like only a few years ago (in relation to the beginning of mankind's existence), there was no scientific evidence that there was anything smaller than an atom...
Lack of scientific evidence does not necessarily mean anything - it's best to keep that in mind sometimes. (I'm not arguing for one thing or another).
I agree with you to a point.
We have good evidence that cables work (they produce sound) , But we have no proof between the difference in cables, only someone's opinion and or belief . look at Christianity or any of the monotheistic religions , no proof whatsoever but a hell of a lot of people live by them.
I was wondering how long it would be until God was mentioned.
I dont have proof but my ears work just fine. Ive heard quite a few different speaker cables but the one time I recall more than anything was when I went to a place to test out new cd players for my father. They ALL sounded very 'tinny' using some nordost....solar wind? We asked for a change of speaker cable, cant recall what was used in its place but it was far more 'solid' sounding.
The time I changed from QED silver spiral to my fathers old VDH was a big improvement too.
The time I changed from QED silver spiral to my fathers old VDH was a big improvement too.
John Duncan
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Andrew Everard:Well said, the_kfc.
Indeed. Will now investigate functionality within the forums to see if all cable threads can have this set as an autoreply.
Indeed. Will now investigate functionality within the forums to see if all cable threads can have this set as an autoreply.
idc
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I believe that cables can (not always) make a difference because I have heard the difference and so has my wife. She is not an audiophile and has been great at giving a very honest opinion on upgrading and changing hifi over the years. I am quite happy to believe in my senses and consider that proof enough. For those who doubt that this is the case, could it be that the cables you have tried have actually not made any difference and from that you make the erronious leap to they all do not make a difference?
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