Where do I begin?

[Ashley]

Afternoon all,

My current setup is: Sony KDL-40NX713 TV; Sony BDP-S380 blu ray player; Sony DN610 AVR; and Tannoy SFX5.1. I also have some Tannoy Mercury MX1's somewhere.

I am thinking of developing my first hifi and was interested in where you thought I would be best spending my money (About £500 - £700). I am happy to buy one separate now and another in say 6-12 months if it means increased quality but If I followed this step then I can't decide where to start.

My first thought was to get a good integrated amp and attach it to the AVR but alas it has no pre-outs. My second was to get a CD player, but I may as well just use my BDP-S380. So perhaps new speakers are an option? I like my dad's new Mordaunt-Short Aviano 6's and these can then be expanded in to a 5.1 setup if I wished.

My other option is to go with a whole system for my whole budget (something like this: http://www.audiblefidelity.co.uk/Marantz_PM_CD6004_Dali_Zensor_1_Speakers_p/pm6004_zen1.htm)

Thanks in advance,

Ashley

 

[fr0g]

I'd spend it on speakers and use what you've got. I personally believe the "non-musicality" of AVRs is over-stated. I now use my Yamaha RXV 667 as my living room Hi-fi, with Dali Ikon 6, and adding one of the stereo amps I have(Arcam A80) makes very little difference.

 

[Ashley]

Thanks everyone, interesting to see three different opinions.

Firstly, thanks AJ, my Dad just got the Marantz combo with his mordaunt's and they do sound good, it's actually how this process began.

Ben, are you proposing I take the bluray digital out as the source in to the Peachtree? how would that work with watching films through the AVR in 5.1? does it autoselect the appropriate output?

Fr0g, do you have any suggestions on speakers, maybe floorstanders? and also, would it not be better with say half on speakers, half on a DAC?

Thanks again, I find it really difficult to choose because I can't stand buying something to intentionally upgrade it when money permits.

 

[BenLaw]

Ben, are you proposing I take the bluray digital out as the source in to the Peachtree? how would that work with watching films through the AVR in 5.1? does it autoselect the appropriate output?

That is what I was suggesting. There's a debate on here about the significance of a transport / digital source into a DAC, but many would agree it will end up sounding the same.

I'd be surprised if there wasn't a way to choose the appropriate output, either automatically or depending on the type of disc, but it is something you'd probably want to check.

I don't think splitting your money between DAC and speakers is a good idea. I can see the sense is fr0g's suggestion; as I say, speakers are the priority.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Find those MX1s and put them on the A or B speaker outs on your reciever then try it out with your BR player use the digital output into the reciever (pcm) - that will give you the base of a system. Don't be fooled that you'll get a far far better sound via a dedicated stereo amp and cd player.

but set up the rx'er as a stereo amp, turn off all unused channels - rears/centre. If you can set the BR player to output in stereo (PCM) do so and see how you get on, chances are you may already have a half descent system in the house already.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi Ashley,

I think if you went ahead and got that Zensor + Marantz package, you would be *Extremely* Happy!

 

[the record spot]

Yep, wheel out the Tannoys from hiding, then invest in something like my amp which you can pick up for about £300 or so. That gives you all the inputs you'll need, an onboard DAC for up to four (count 'em!) digital devices (two optical, two coax), 100wpc and sound quality that's right up there. I think your Tannoys would be a good partner for it (as mine are), but another £300 would get you a pair of DC4's or even the next model up for the same money as they're nearing end of line. Throw in £99 for an ATV3 and it's job done. I'm blown away by how good this setup and Spotify is thrilling. One very musical setup and I listen to it for hours on end.

 

[Ashley]

So it seems the general consensus is to try my current equipment (tomorrow's project) and then perhaps look to an amp/dac such as the Onkyo or Peachtree. Has anyone had experience with the Peachtree Audio Nova? I like that you can integrated Sonos which is something I'm interested in for the future. Similarly, are there any separate amp and DAC combos people could suggest as opposed ot the two in one options offered? I also saw the Teac AH01.

Thanks for the suggestions

 

[the record spot]

Firestone Audio's brilliant little Spitfire II DAC. £250. Excellent for the money. If you dislike detailed and bright sounding gear, avoid the Cambridge Audio DACMagic. Tried it for a fortnight and could not get on with it. Robs music of life.

 

[BenLaw]

Your priority for music has to be to use some proper speakers. I also think you need better amplification, but wouldn't be too worried about the source at this level, especially if you were able to use a DAC.

The product that springs to mind is this: http://www.petertyson.co.uk/ebuttonz/ebz_product_pages/peachtree_audio_decco_2.shtml?fshop

And if you like Mission speakers perhaps these (to come in on budget): http://www.avland.co.uk/aasp/mission/1020/mx2/mx2.asp

Edit: don't know why I'm talking about Mission when you have Tannoy, sorry!

 

[John Duncan]

If you dislike detailed and bright sounding gear, avoid the Cambridge Audio DACMagic. Tried it for a fortnight and could not get on with it. Robs music of life.

YMMV...

 

[the record spot]

Fair point JD. It's quite a Marmite product and would probably work well partnered with the right kit.

 

[Ashley]

Interestingly, some have said that through a good amp (in this case the Roksan Kandy) the Blu Ray sounds good through the line out. I am looking forward to this test myself tomorrow.

 

[nlanks]

I would go along with the posters who are advising trying one thing at a time, and starting with your MX1s and things you own. This will give you a reference sound to compare to when demoing new kit.

That Marantz Dali package would be great I'm sure if you were starting from nothing and just wanting to play CDs in stereo, but as you already have blu ray and surround sound etc you clearly have other interests to take into account. Putting your whole budget into this may not be the best bet therefore right away.

Trying to get a decent music and movies combo on a budget can be tricky, and you will want to consider which is more important to you to help balance the system in that favour.

It's a shame your amp doesn't have pre outs as that negates the whole avenue of using a separate integrated amp for music playback. Any AV amp you get next should have those on to give you more upgrade routes in the future.

I like the ideas that "the record spot" has come up with. The MX1s could make good rears too, and then with a decent centre channel speaker you could have a very good system.

Dont forget that selling your older components is a good guilt free way of funding more upgrades!

 

[nlanks]

Don't forget aswell that if funds are tight then the second hand market holds great value - for example you could get a pair of B&W DM601 S3 for just over £100. I owned a pair for a few years and they were very nice speakers, would make a good sounding and cost effective upgrade for you.

 

[the record spot]

It's a shame your amp doesn't have pre outs as that negates the whole avenue of using a separate integrated amp for music playback. Any AV amp you get next should have those on to give you more upgrade routes in the future.

I like the ideas that "the record spot" has come up with. The MX1s could make good rears too, and then with a decent centre channel speaker you could have a very good system.

Thanks nlanks!

You reminded me in your first paragraph, the Onkyo has a pre-out function that enables a power amp to be added too, so you can run the 8050 to the tweeter and a power amp to the bass frequencies if desired. There's also a subwoofer input as well for the bass hungry!

There is also the option of biamping using the onboard amps in the AV receiver the OP currently has - a nice cost effective way of doing it too!

 

[nlanks]

You reminded me in your first paragraph, the Onkyo has a pre-out function that enables a power amp to be added too, so you can run the 8050 to the tweeter and a power amp to the bass frequencies if desired.

Im not sure this would work so easily - you'd have to make sure the gain of both the internal amp and power amp were the same, otherwise there would effectively be a difference in volume between the tweeters and bass, no matter what the volume. If you were to add a power amp (probably further down your list of priorities TBH) then you would just bi-wire the main speakers from that alone.

There is also the option of biamping using the onboard amps in the AV receiver the OP currently has - a nice cost effective way of doing it too!

This would be a good option to get the most out of your existing kit before deciding if you want to move on, but this would have to be with your next pair of speakers as the MX1 are not bi-wireable.

 

[Ashley]

Morning all,

I've had a bit of a listen to it this morning through the HDMI connection and I was pleasantly surprised. My only criticism is that it sounded quite flat and the whole experience seemed a little meek and mild, not something to get me interested as it were, but more something for the background (maybe I'm expecting too much from such a mishmash of kit). But there is definately potential. I can't comment on the ability of the Blu ray DAC as I don't have the available wires for analogue out, or even digital out through optical/coaxial but I can't imagine it's too different to HDMI (I'm happy to be wrong though).

So my choice seems to remain between an amp and speakers, and then between an amp/dac or just an amp. If I went speakers, they could be biwireable so as to allow a new amp later. Also, is it perhaps my AVR that is the problem?

I too think that the future looks like the MX1's as rears, and the TV setup must also be considered, but I was hoping that eventually it could evolve in to a decent separate system. That was why I thought integrating it at first would be better, so I could buy one or two better quality components than having to buy a whole system all at once (such as the marantz).

Thanks,

Ashley

 

[the record spot]

Im not sure this would work so easily - you'd have to make sure the gain of both the internal amp and power amp were the same, otherwise there would effectively be a difference in volume between the tweeters and bass, no matter what the volume. If you were to add a power amp (probably further down your list of priorities TBH) then you would just bi-wire the main speakers from that alone.

This applies to any pre/power option really, but it can be done and - having contacted Onkyo - the company confirmed it would work. Yes, you could use the power amp to run both, but that would make the 8050's amp redundant using only the 8050 as a pre alone. Match the gain and it's job done.

And bi-wiring, not my cup of tea these days. Single wiring works great though.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Morning all,

I've had a bit of a listen to it this morning through the HDMI connection and I was pleasantly surprised. My only criticism is that it sounded quite flat and the whole experience seemed a little meek and mild, not something to get me interested as it were, but more something for the background (maybe I'm expecting too much from such a mishmash of kit). But there is definately potential. I can't comment on the ability of the Blu ray DAC as I don't have the available wires for analogue out, or even digital out through optical/coaxial but I can't imagine it's too different to HDMI (I'm happy to be wrong though).

So my choice seems to remain between an amp and speakers, and then between an amp/dac or just an amp. If I went speakers, they could be biwireable so as to allow a new amp later. Also, is it perhaps my AVR that is the problem?

I too think that the future looks like the MX1's as rears, and the TV setup must also be considered, but I was hoping that eventually it could evolve in to a decent separate system. That was why I thought integrating it at first would be better, so I could buy one or two better quality components than having to buy a whole system all at once (such as the marantz).

Thanks,

Ashley

Naaaah, you must have a cheapo audio cable somewhere in the house......lol....everybody has at least one cheapo cable lying around in the house. If you do then connect the digital coax out to your amp, using one of the legs. Do not use optical, they are rubbish for music - there are differences.

Anyway set the BRplayer to stereo (turn off unused channels like I said on the amp), use the DAC in the AV rx'er (when ready you can switch your set up back for 5.1 playback), it may also be worth working on speaker positioning with those MX1's

 

[the record spot]

Do not use optical, they are rubbish for music - there are differences.

The one I use must be one of them then because what I hear using either of mine against any of the RCA phono cables is easily the equal. Incredibly good.

To borrow a phrase JD reminded me of the other day: YMMV.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Lol...... I am tempted but I won't....fair enuff to each his own.....

have you compared....no...no...I will resist....I will...... :wave:

 

[the record spot]

Compared...Atlas Navigators with QED profile and a....Tesco optical. The latter two hold up incredibly well. So, YMMV as stated.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I have only tried the freebie optical cable recieved with the xbox360 elite and it sounded really poor compared to the anolog/digital cables I own. very narrow bandwidth, chopping top end and lower frequencies and the midrange was poor. it was dynamically very poor.

not sure about the quality of this cable but alot of information was lost between CD player and amp. I do use it for 5.1 on the Xbox though but it put me off trying other cables of this type for music. .......

 

[the record spot]

Ah well, that's different from what you said before then isn't it?!