Where are all the old stalwarts going?

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MajorFubar

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Missing seeing the contributions from some of the longstanding stalwarts, some of whom predate me on the forum. I didn't always agree with Vladimir, but his posts were excellently constructed and were nearly always an entertaining read. Not logged on since 20 April, and the site is worse for it. Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but the site is even worse for the lack of The_LHC's contributions, terse though they often were. No sign of him since 31 July.

Funny world but you end up worrying about people you don't really know in person, but you know they were at least once very regular posters, and for them suddenly not to be, something's changed in their lives, good or bad, voluntarily or otherwise. Are they ok, have they suffered a loss, God forbid have they even left this earth. And due to the anonimity of the forum by its very nature, there is no way of checking to find out they're ok and just giving it a break for a while.
 
D

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MajorFubar said:
Missing seeing the contributions from some of the longstanding stalwarts, some of whom predate me on the forum. I didn't always agree with Vladimir, but his posts were excellently constructed and were nearly always an entertaining read. Not logged on since 20 April, and the site is worse for it. Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but the site is even worse for the lack of The_LHC's contributions, terse though they often were. No sign of him since 31 July.

Funny world but you end up worrying about people you don't really know in person, but you know they were at least once very regular posters, and for them suddenly not to be, something's changed in their lives, good or bad, voluntarily or otherwise. Are they ok, have they suffered a loss, God forbid have they even left this earth. And due to the anonimity of the forum by its very nature, there is no way of checking to find out they're ok and just giving it a break for a while.
The_LHC said he was done with this website. BigBernard told me he was done too. I am in two minds as to whether to quit or not, think I will probably will it's just when.
 
D

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MajorFubar said:
Missing seeing the contributions from some of the longstanding stalwarts, some of whom predate me on the forum. I didn't always agree with Vladimir, but his posts were excellently constructed and were nearly always an entertaining read. Not logged on since 20 April, and the site is worse for it. Never thought I'd hear myself saying this, but the site is even worse for the lack of The_LHC's contributions, terse though they often were. No sign of him since 31 July.

Funny world but you end up worrying about people you don't really know in person, but you know they were at least once very regular posters, and for them suddenly not to be, something's changed in their lives, good or bad, voluntarily or otherwise. Are they ok, have they suffered a loss, God forbid have they even left this earth. And due to the anonimity of the forum by its very nature, there is no way of checking to find out they're ok and just giving it a break for a while.
The_LHC said he was done with this website. BigBernard told me he was done too. I am in two minds as to whether to quit or not, think I will probably will it's just when.
 

chebby

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MajorFubar said:
Missing seeing the contributions from some of the longstanding stalwarts, some of whom predate me on the forum. I didn't always agree with Vladimir, but his posts were excellently constructed and were nearly always an entertaining read. Not logged on since 20 April, and the site is worse for it.
His last tweet was only a couple of days ago...

https://twitter.com/vladpandovski

... so he is still 'active'.
 

MajorFubar

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Nice to see Vlad is still posting somewhere ast least

gel said:
The_LHC said he was done with this website.
Meh he said that every time his stroppy attitude got him in to trouble. Though he never stayed away long until now. His final posts were in the infamous Iran thread.
 
D

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MajorFubar said:
Nice to see Vlad is still posting somewhere ast least

gel said:
The_LHC said he was done with this website.
Meh he said that every time his stroppy attitude got him in to trouble. Though he never stayed away long until now. His final posts were in the infamous Iran thread.
What happened in that thread then?
 

expat_mike

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I check the active posts most days, but I rarely post here anymore. I tend to spend my time on another forum, where the atmosphere is much friendlier, differences of opinion are discussed amicably, and there are no threads getting derailed into personal insult sessions. There is also the functionality to PM other members, and discuss things amicably with them 'offline' without poisoning the public discussion threads

For me the straw that broke the camels back, was a thread a few weeks ago, where one of the stalwarts had a sustained attempt to insult gel and made several over the top, personal insults aimed at gel. Those insults were uncalled for.

If you ever read the documentation about creating communities of interest, and this includes forums, the documentation describes the typical lifecycle of a community. When they start, they are usually driven by enthusiasts, and feature much good natured discussion, exchange of ideas, creative energy, etc. As they mature, some of the founders leave, but are replaced by equally enthusiastic newcomers. However eventually you reach a point where most/all of the founders have left (eg Andrew Everard and his what hifi colleagues), and much of the initial enthusiasm has evaporated. Cliques form, creating fragmentation of ideas and interest groups, and the newcomers are put off joining because they do not feel like they are one of the gang. The community is in a slow decline, and the activity gradually reduces.

This does paint a gloomy picture, but:

1 - the WHF forum has lost all its founders

2 - WHF itself sends out a message by demoting the Forum from front page navigation, to hidden on the More menu, and then replaces the active moderators by automated spam filters etc. It all makes me feel like WHF do not have the budget to enable the forum to reach its potential, but neither do they have the heart to kill the forum. So the forum lives on in a state of limbo.

3 - many of the stalwarts have left

4 - interpersonal insults sometimes replace friendly rational discussion/debate

etc

You can tell that i think the forum is on the down slope. The founders and stalwarts represent a large knowledge base, with their years of experience, and once they leave the forum contains mainly newcomers, often with many questions but with few people to provide answers.

Myself, I am experiencing greater enjoyment with my hifi and listening to music, than I have for many years. A bit ironic in that my enjoyment from this forum has declined so much.

I was a keen follower of the Fantasy football last season, and gel to his credit did try and persuade me to join another FF league this season. However my enthusiasm had waned, partly driven by my focus this season shifting from football to rugby. I have been lucky enough to obtain a season ticket at Stade Toulousain, , but from what I have seen so far, it will seem like a sadly dour season with much unexciting play to be endured. I was also a keen founder of the WHF film club, but all the other founders have left, and we have been waiting 6 weeks for David to nominate his films for August, so I think that club is close to closing. This all means that my ancillary reasons for spending time on this forum have declined.

Every member has the ability to make a forum, a place that other people want to visit, and share ideas, stories, knowledge etc. You all have something to give - but first you have to look at the man in the mirror, and tell yourself that you want to be part of a successful forum in the future. *biggrin*
 

CnoEvil

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Great post...and I agree with every word regarding the state of the forum and its atmosphere.
 

Blacksabbath25

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MajorFubar said:
Nice to see Vlad is still posting somewhere ast least

gel said:
The_LHC said he was done with this website.
Meh he said that every time his stroppy attitude got him in to trouble. Though he never stayed away long until now. His final posts were in the infamous Iran thread.
I liked Vladimir I wish he would comeback ,

i started to pick some interesting things up of his posts . Now it's active this .... cable that .

Vladimir please comeback and save us all !
 

Superaintit

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I'm also thinking about changing this forum for another. The endless bickering, the lack of moderation and the continuously bad state of the forum's software being the main reasons.
 

plastic penguin

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I think Chebby and I are two of the oldest regular posters now. Having pre-dating most on here, there are a load of good people who just gave up on this forum:

John Duncan; Professorhat; Gerrardasnails (we met for lunch and I heard his Cambridge 840 with RS6s. Good person); PJ Pro; Raypalmer; Igglebert (who turned to the dark side and never seen again)...and others

There were no egoes, just good harmless fun and very informative. Can't even remember any trolls, apart from Vanman who was pure entertainment.

I don't post nearly as often because there's nothing that I can help with, and if I can you never hear back from a poster. Not to mention a lack of employee involvement. Can't even remember the last time I asked for hi-fi advice.

There are more things important in life than egoes you can't see. And I'm totally happy with my set-up. The last upgrade will be a turntable. Is it worth posting my findings? Possibly not. That speaks volume for how this forum has gone down hill.

Can't be doing with people saying buy AVI or Abrahamsen and then buggering off. What help is that?

I suppose things move on and change, and not necessarily for the better.
 

chebby

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plastic penguin said:
There were no egoes, just good harmless fun and very informative ...
We all used to leave our front doors open and the rosy cheeked policeman would just give us a friendly clout around the head with his truncheon, if he caught us scrumping.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
Superaintit said:
I'm also thinking about changing this forum for another. The endless bickering, the lack of moderation and the continuously bad state of the forum's software being the main reasons.
I've found that a few weeks away is sometimes good for the soul. Trouble is, once engaged in a thread, one is tempted to return, a bit like to a soap opera.

The threads that get the attention are the controversial ones, with active speakers and cables at their heart. "Newbie needing help with budget amp" for the umpteenth time isn't all that exciting, after all!
 

MajorFubar

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It does deem that the forum is mainly populated now by newbies asking similar repetitive questions and any in-depth discussions are only arguments about cables. I have previously suggested a FAQ might be useful to help with newbies' common queries. But for that to work would require pro-active maintenance of the forum beyond just deleting spam. We could all see even a year ago that the forum was sinking down a plughole, so to help matters rather than just whine publicly about it, way back in March I offered to be a moderator. The idea was enthusiastically accepted in principle by the PTB, but nothing ever came of it, even after I subsequently sent two reminders.

plastic penguin said:
The last upgrade will be a turntable. Is it worth posting my findings? Possibly not. That speaks volume for how this forum has gone down hill.
I appreciate why the forum as it stands would make you feel that way. But certainly I would be interested, I'm sure others would be, and if you want to see change, you first have to 'be' the change.
 

spiny norman

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MajorFubar said:
It does deem that the forum is mainly populated now by newbies asking similar repetitive questions
But isn't that exactly the kind of buyer at whom the magazine is targeted?
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
spiny norman said:
MajorFubar said:
It does deem that the forum is mainly populated now by newbies asking similar repetitive questions
But isn't that exactly the kind of buyer at whom the magazine is targeted?
This is why, a few weeks ago, I suggested a 'Savvy shopping' thread that could be pinned in the 'hi-fi' section. This would, hopefully, cut down on the constant questions.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
MajorFubar said:
plastic penguin said:
The last upgrade will be a turntable. Is it worth posting my findings? Possibly not. That speaks volume for how this forum has gone down hill.
I appreciate why the forum as it stands would make you feel that way. But certainly I would be interested, I'm sure others would be, and if you want to see change, you first have to 'be' the change.
How could I be a catalyst? It needs everyone pulling in same direction.
 

spiny norman

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plastic penguin said:
This would, hopefully, cut down on the constant questions.
I don't think the 'constant questions' are a problem. It's good to see new people coming in and using the forum, rather than it being a talking shop for the same few handfuls of old codgers, as so many hi-fi forums are.
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
spiny norman said:
plastic penguin said:
This would, hopefully, cut down on the constant questions.
I don't think the 'constant questions' are a problem. It's good to see new people coming in and using the forum, rather than it being a talking shop for the same few handfuls of old codgers, as so many hi-fi forums are.
Concur.

But at least it'll help the newbies and cut down the repetitive questions. It's about striking a balance between being helpful and blanking those who keep buying [blind] products based on reviews/awards.
 

expat_mike

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Mar 30, 2013
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MajorFubar said:
It does deem that the forum is mainly populated now by newbies asking similar repetitive questions and any in-depth discussions are only arguments about cables. I have previously suggested a FAQ might be useful to help with newbies' common queries. But for that to work would require pro-active maintenance of the forum beyond just deleting spam. We could all see even a year ago that the forum was sinking down a plughole, so to help matters rather than just whine publicly about it, way back in March I offered to be a moderator. The idea was enthusiastically accepted in principle by the PTB, but nothing ever came of it, even after I subsequently sent two reminders.

plastic penguin said:
The last upgrade will be a turntable. Is it worth posting my findings? Possibly not. That speaks volume for how this forum has gone down hill.
I appreciate why the forum as it stands would make you feel that way. But certainly I would be interested, I'm sure others would be, and if you want to see change, you first have to 'be' the change.
Major, all credit to you for offering to be a moderator. I wondered about it a few times, but I knew that some forum members would have found me too strict - ie start online abuse and refuse to stop, and it would have been a red card and ban. I read plenty of posts complaining that Andrew Everard used to do similar.

A FAQ is useful for some people, but most people nowadays want to just turn up and ask a question, and get a personal response (and not have to pay for it). The trouble when a forum gets almost exclusively populated by newbies asking questions, is that you need a certain number of experienced stalwarts, to provide the answers. Once the stalwarts have been driven away, all that the forum is left with are questions.
 

Paul.

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MajorFubar said:
way back in March I offered to be a moderator.


Its a thankless task and you will always be wrong. Everyone complained that the place was wild, so more mods were brought on. Everyone complained that the place was too strict, so we backed off. You cant win and everyone complains. I quit a while back but I still delete spam when I can.
 
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