i'm happy with my cd player and speakers but feel i could do better than the amplifier i am currently using. i'm thinking of auditioning a roksan kandy k2 with the arcam and 685's. what do you guys think? what would be the perfect amplifier to use with the arcam and bowers and wilkins speakers?
what would you guys partner an arcam fmj cd17 and B&W 685 with?
- Thread starter gooner26
- Start date
matthewpiano
Well-known member
I think you are on the right track with the Roksan. What amp are you using now, and what do you want to change about the sound?
i'm using a rega brio 3. ive noticed that some music sounds great and certain music does'nt. for instance my lou rawls album does'nt sound as exciting or involving as it should. i'm definatly no expert but i think the problem is lack of low end grunt! what do you think?
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Thought you had the Brio. The 685s can be a bit lacking in excitement and uninvolving. It was one of the things I didn't like about them when I auditioned them. On the other hand, I think they could do with an amp which has more grip than the Brio. I really liked the Brio 3 when I tried it but found it had a tendency to harden up when the going got tough so I suspect its not quite got enough about it to kick the 685s into life.
I think you have a decision to make about whether you want to change your amp or your speakers. If you change your amp, I'd definitely be looking at the Roksan K2.
I think you have a decision to make about whether you want to change your amp or your speakers. If you change your amp, I'd definitely be looking at the Roksan K2.
to be honest i have no experience of doing demo's with audio specialists, only twice i've auditioned and i think i made a balls up to be honest the last time. my dealer first reccomened the matching rega speakers to go with the brio3 amp and it sounded good to my ears, but i plumped for the 685's mostly because of the great review it received from whathifi! matthew what presentation will i be getting in your opinon if i do plump for the roksan paired with the cd17 and 685's?
Go back and have a chat with your dealer; if I were in your shoes, I'd just be upfront. Explain what happened and then see what he recommends to partner your current kit. Depending on the sound you're after, you've got the latest Marantz PM8003, the Yamaha S1000, the Kandy 2, you can probably get a deal on the Kandy III predecessor if you like that sound and you could throw in the Marantz PM7001 KI which is widely available for less than the former £600 it once was now the 8003 is out.
There's bound to be something in there. Check your current cable connections though; it might be an interconnect change is all you need.
There's bound to be something in there. Check your current cable connections though; it might be an interconnect change is all you need.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Record Spot has raised a good point. What interconnects are you using? With kit of this level it does make a big difference.
In terms of the Rok with the 685s I think you'll get a warmer sound than you currently get with better bass. However, it might all sound a little bit too warm, so auditioning is going to be vital. The other amps suggested by RS are well worth checking out as well.
I can't help feeling, though, that its the speakers that were the mistake. If you liked the sound with the Rega speakers you perhaps should have stuck to it. Take less notice of the reviews and more notice of your own ears. Its about what sounds good to YOU that counts. I'd certainly be inclined to revisit the Rega amp/speaker pairing at your dealers. Rega amps always sound best with their own speakers in my opinion.
Personally I think the 685s are over rated and quite bland sounding, and I know several others who feel the same (and many who love them). So don't just assume its the amp thats wrong - it could be the speakers you need to change instead.
In terms of the Rok with the 685s I think you'll get a warmer sound than you currently get with better bass. However, it might all sound a little bit too warm, so auditioning is going to be vital. The other amps suggested by RS are well worth checking out as well.
I can't help feeling, though, that its the speakers that were the mistake. If you liked the sound with the Rega speakers you perhaps should have stuck to it. Take less notice of the reviews and more notice of your own ears. Its about what sounds good to YOU that counts. I'd certainly be inclined to revisit the Rega amp/speaker pairing at your dealers. Rega amps always sound best with their own speakers in my opinion.
Personally I think the 685s are over rated and quite bland sounding, and I know several others who feel the same (and many who love them). So don't just assume its the amp thats wrong - it could be the speakers you need to change instead.
thanks for the advice matthewpiano & the record spot. im using qed 1 interconnects and chord carnival silverscreen speaker cable, also recently bought some partington broadside stands.
Have you ahd the speakers for long? Maybe your dealer would be amenable to swap your B&Ws for the Rega's...matthew's point got me thinking that's maybe worth a punt? He can only say no after all!
Gooner, you desperately need to change that interconnect. I had one all of last year, and I upgraded to an Atlas Equator Mk.II and the difference was outstanding!
would the Atlas Equator really make that much of a difference? i may well go and buy one tomorow then!
i am also using a cheap 2 in 1 plug socket which may be affecting performance(lack of plug sockets in my bedroom) ive got my eye on the Tacima CS929 or the Lindy 6-way
gooner26:i am also using a cheap 2 in 1 plug socket which may be affecting performance(lack of plug sockets in my bedroom) ive got my eye on the Tacima CS929 or the Lindy 6-way
Sure, there are sizable gains to be made by improving the mains to your system. By inserting capacitors in the mains supply, you get a smoothed result. The Tacima and Lindy are the same, so go for the cheapest one you can find. As for the interconnect, it should improve the sound quite a bit, especially as you have quite a poor one at the moment, no offense. I suggest you take these little steps before leaping onto another component - they really improve the performance and give you a great peace of mind in the process.
Sure, there are sizable gains to be made by improving the mains to your system. By inserting capacitors in the mains supply, you get a smoothed result. The Tacima and Lindy are the same, so go for the cheapest one you can find. As for the interconnect, it should improve the sound quite a bit, especially as you have quite a poor one at the moment, no offense. I suggest you take these little steps before leaping onto another component - they really improve the performance and give you a great peace of mind in the process.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
gooner26:would the Atlas Equator really make that much of a difference? i may well go and buy one tomorow then!
Don't just jump in at the deep end. A cable can only make the best of a system that is fundamentally 'right'. It can't work miracles. It seems to me that your concerns are more deep rooted than that and I really think you need to work with your dealer,by using demonstrations, to ascertain where the issue is in your system. I'm almost certain you'll find its the speakers, but only your ears can decide.
When you do upgrade your cable don't just jump in and buy the first one thats been recommended either. You will need to make sure that whichever one you buy works in your system and that you can hear (and like) the difference it makes.
Don't just jump in at the deep end. A cable can only make the best of a system that is fundamentally 'right'. It can't work miracles. It seems to me that your concerns are more deep rooted than that and I really think you need to work with your dealer,by using demonstrations, to ascertain where the issue is in your system. I'm almost certain you'll find its the speakers, but only your ears can decide.
When you do upgrade your cable don't just jump in and buy the first one thats been recommended either. You will need to make sure that whichever one you buy works in your system and that you can hear (and like) the difference it makes.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
matthewpiano:gooner26:would the Atlas Equator really make that much of a difference? i may well go and buy one tomorow then! Don't just jump in at the deep end. A cable can only make the best of a system that is fundamentally 'right'. It can't work miracles. It seems to me that your concerns are more deep rooted than that and I really think you need to work with your dealer,by using demonstrations, to ascertain where the issue is in your system. I'm almost certain you'll find its the speakers, but only your ears can decide. When you do upgrade your cable don't just jump in and buy the first one thats been recommended either. You will need to make sure that whichever one you buy works in your system and that you can hear (and like) the difference it makes.
Totally agree. What better interconnects will do is produce a more balanced sound. I'd rather try tinkering with leads before splashing a lot of money on an amp if it's not needed.
Totally agree. What better interconnects will do is produce a more balanced sound. I'd rather try tinkering with leads before splashing a lot of money on an amp if it's not needed.
to matthewpiano, the rega speakers i auditioned was the RS1's i think. so you definatly think these would work better with the brio3? i may audition again.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
gooner26:to matthewpiano, the rega speakers i auditioned was the RS1's i think. so you definatly think these would work better with the brio3? i may audition again.
I have heard the RS3s with the Brio 3 but not the RS1s so I can't give a conclusive comment. However, when I auditioned the Brio it only really came on song through the RS3s and it was when playing through these that I was quite stunned by many aspects of what the amp could do for the money. As I said before your own ears have to be the judge, so book that demonstration and go with your own ears.
If you start jumping around on the basis of other people's opinions and reviews you are going to end up wasting a lot of money and never getting your system right. I did it for ages and it was only when I set about buying my current set-up that I went with completely my own agenda and ended up with something that I am extremely happy with.
I have heard the RS3s with the Brio 3 but not the RS1s so I can't give a conclusive comment. However, when I auditioned the Brio it only really came on song through the RS3s and it was when playing through these that I was quite stunned by many aspects of what the amp could do for the money. As I said before your own ears have to be the judge, so book that demonstration and go with your own ears.
If you start jumping around on the basis of other people's opinions and reviews you are going to end up wasting a lot of money and never getting your system right. I did it for ages and it was only when I set about buying my current set-up that I went with completely my own agenda and ended up with something that I am extremely happy with.
matthewpiano this may sound a really daft question but does it all come down to the amp in the end ie: if you favour a warm sounding set-up then you should go for a warm sounding amp right? what happens though if you mix and match a bright sounding source like say the cyrus cd6se with a warm , rich sounding amp like say the new yamaha? or vice versa? it would be great if maybe someone could do a novice's guide to mixing and matching!
matthewpiano
Well-known member
There are many different thoughts on which part of a system has the biggest impact on the sound. Personally I think the single most important thing is synergy - the way in which different components work together - and that is why demonstrations are so vital. Synergy is a black art and it is only when you actually hear two components together that you know how it will sound.
What sort of sound do you want to achieve? Do you want a warm sound or a brighter one? Do you like a very detailed sound, or something more smooth and inoffensive? Do you actually know what sort of sound you are looking for?
If you want a warm, smooth sound Rega is the wrong brand for you because their kit majors on Pace, Rhythm And Timing (PRAT), like that of Naim. It tends to have a brighter sound. If it is that brighter, more exciting sound you are looking for, then the B&Ws are the wrong speakers for you because they have a darker sound.
What sort of sound do you want to achieve? Do you want a warm sound or a brighter one? Do you like a very detailed sound, or something more smooth and inoffensive? Do you actually know what sort of sound you are looking for?
If you want a warm, smooth sound Rega is the wrong brand for you because their kit majors on Pace, Rhythm And Timing (PRAT), like that of Naim. It tends to have a brighter sound. If it is that brighter, more exciting sound you are looking for, then the B&Ws are the wrong speakers for you because they have a darker sound.
the warm sound is i think the way i want to go with plenty of detail, am i on the right track with the arcam as my source? what do you think of the roksan kandy k2 amp then? will that give me a warmer sound than the rega? def want to keep my 685's though!
gooner26:
the warm sound is i think the way i want to go with plenty of detail.
I want a Lambo Muira, but it 'aint gonna happen!
You either want warmth, or you want detail or you want the bit in between...neutral, or you don't know what you want because you've never heard your CDs on a system you like.
However, the Kandy is warmer than the Rega, but that's because the Rega is about as warm as a H„agen-Dazs holiday. If you want warmth, you have to be prepared to sacrifice other areas, such as bass definition, timing and that "clean" sound.
And, as ever, if you want a warm sound with the smallest compromises, look at this.
the warm sound is i think the way i want to go with plenty of detail.
I want a Lambo Muira, but it 'aint gonna happen!
You either want warmth, or you want detail or you want the bit in between...neutral, or you don't know what you want because you've never heard your CDs on a system you like.
However, the Kandy is warmer than the Rega, but that's because the Rega is about as warm as a H„agen-Dazs holiday. If you want warmth, you have to be prepared to sacrifice other areas, such as bass definition, timing and that "clean" sound.
And, as ever, if you want a warm sound with the smallest compromises, look at this.
matthewpiano:There are many different thoughts on which part of a system has the biggest impact on the sound. Personally I think the single most important thing is synergy - the way in which different components work together - and that is why demonstrations are so vital. Synergy is a black art and it is only when you actually hear two components together that you know how it will sound.
Absolutely bang on the money IMO - personal experience tells me this is about as true as it gets.
The biggest impact on what yuo hear is your own personal taste in how you like your music cooked up. I changed a couple of components recently and the impact on the sound was immense. Some say speakers, others the amp, I take the view that the source was the most important...I still stand by that to some degree, but am less steadfast in believing that it is the be all and end all of system building.
Ultimately, you can only ever decide what works for you by hearing the gear you've shortlisted - that's not always possible, and we've all bought blind to some degree (admit it now!), but it's the only way to be sure in the end.
But the point about synergy is about as good as it gets in hi-fi IMO.
Absolutely bang on the money IMO - personal experience tells me this is about as true as it gets.
The biggest impact on what yuo hear is your own personal taste in how you like your music cooked up. I changed a couple of components recently and the impact on the sound was immense. Some say speakers, others the amp, I take the view that the source was the most important...I still stand by that to some degree, but am less steadfast in believing that it is the be all and end all of system building.
Ultimately, you can only ever decide what works for you by hearing the gear you've shortlisted - that's not always possible, and we've all bought blind to some degree (admit it now!), but it's the only way to be sure in the end.
But the point about synergy is about as good as it gets in hi-fi IMO.
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