What will I gain from a serious AV Amp upgrade?

[admin_exported]

Hey

I need a final push before I upgrade my Pioneer VSX-819, if I am going to buy a Pioneer SC-LX72 what am I going to hear different?

The amp was like 1500.00 new and its down to 899.00, is it going to be a night and day difference, is it worth the upgrade?

I cant really demo due to work and home comitments, just relying on your guy's expert knowledge.

Thanks

 

[professorhat]

It should be a night and day difference - when I first got my Onkyo 905 amp (in the same league as the Pioneer you're getting), this is what I wrote on the Your Opinion section of the review:

When watching my first film (which was "only" a Dolby Digital track) I
was literally dodging my head left to right as cars flew past my head!
My first uncompressed PCM soundtrack was a treat and left me grinning
like an idiot - even poor films sound so good they become enjoyable!

And this was upgrading from a much older but still expensive at the time AV receiver!

Having said that, I haven't heard the Pioneer to comment on how well it will gel with your speaker package...

 

[Anonymous]

Been looking at some older onkyos' like the TX-NR905 which can be had for 699.00

I wonder how it would fair against the SC-LX72 as it was in the same price bracket at new.

I seem to be hooked on the b&o ice power and airtuned studios bit, but that could just be a marketing gimmic.

 

[Chewy]

I haven't heard the LX-72 myself, but I agree with ProfessorHat, the difference to your current amp should be significant.

Incidentally, I currently have a 905, and I am about to home audition the LX-83 with a view to upgrading.

Don't get me wrong the 905 is an excellent amp, especially at that price, with plenty of grunt and muscle for movies, but I have found it quite lacking in detail and finesse, particularly with regards to both top end clarity and surround effects steering, which is why I want to check out the Pioneer which is supposed to excel in these areas.

I suspect the LX-72, which is based on the a similar design, would have a similar approach to its sound.

For what its worth, I was told recently that someone switched out an NR5007 for an LX-73 because it provided a better sound for their Kef Reference speaker set-up!

 

[Anonymous]

gdavies09031977:

For what its worth, I was told recently that someone switched out an NR5007 for an LX-73 because it provided a better sound for their Kef Reference speaker set-up!

WOW thats quite a statement from an amp that costs that much, makes me feel better for spending 900.00

 

[Anonymous]

If I may ask:

What hi-fi, all your years of experience and the AV amps you have listened to, would you say from a amp like the pioneer VSX819 to the SC-LX series, is it worth the 1400.00 price difference? can you hear 1400.00 worth of upgrade?

I need to be 100% sure about this as prob buying before the weekend, once I get a colour sample from BLOK to see if the walnut matches the RX series.

Thanks and sorry to be a pain, but this is almost a months wages for me

 

[michael hoy]

Hi,

I recently moved from a Denon 1909 to the SC-LX72, the Denon is a good amp and suited the speakers I had at the time.

I then purchased the MA Apex speakers and added the SC-LX72, what a difference, it is not bright sounding as some may say about Pioneer, the clarity and tonal quality has to be heard.

When we were auditioning the Apex, we used an Onkyo 608 and the Arcam 500, my wife liked the 608 / Apex combination, but on hearing the Arcam / Apex combination preffered the sound from that.

Didn't want to spend £2500 on the amp, David at HIFIX recommended the 72 and he wasn't wrong.

 

[Chewy]

canada16:

If I may ask:

What hi-fi, all your years of experience and the AV amps you have listened to, would you say from a amp like the pioneer VSX819 to the SC-LX series, is it worth the 1400.00 price difference? can you hear 1400.00 worth of upgrade?

I need to be 100% sure about this as prob buying before the weekend, once I get a colour sample from BLOK to see if the walnut matches the RX series.

Thanks and sorry to be a pain, but this is almost a months wages for me

All the more reason to audition it Canada16 - some places will offer home auditions (which I only found out recently) - I can't think of a better way to make a decision on a significantly priced piece of kit, and you will only know if you will hear £1,400 worth of upgrade when you hear it in your room with the rest of your gear.

 

[Anonymous]

Very true, but as I said before I cant demo stuff really, as only have sundays off and I have kids and the wife has the car to go to work, and audio t is closed on sundays, very hard when I work days and the wife works nights.

 

[grdunn123]

You obviously like the Pioneer sound Canada so I say take the plunge an go for it. I've never really been swayed buy demo's in shops as it's very difficult to recreate you're normal environment.

 

[Anonymous]

grdunn123:You obviously like the Pioneer sound Canada so I say take the plunge an go for it. I've never really been swayed buy demo's in shops as it's very difficult to recreate you're normal environment.

I dont know any other sound TBH

And it seems from what someone else said, the type of AV amp the pioneer 72 and 82 are, they are along the same types of the Z7, and dont see any other amps in the same class as the pioneer for about the same price. 899.00

 

[grdunn123]

Then you seem to have answered your own questions? Definitely worth asking whichever dealer you buy from whether you can exchange if you're not happy with the Pioneer..at least then you have some flexibility. Then come the RX6's???

 

[Gerrardasnails]

canada16:
grdunn123:You obviously like the Pioneer sound Canada so I say take the plunge an go for it. I've never really been swayed buy demo's in shops as it's very difficult to recreate you're normal environment.

I dont know any other sound TBH

And it seems from what someone else said, the type of AV amp the pioneer 72 and 82 are, they are along the same types of the Z7, and dont see any other amps in the same class as the pioneer for about the same price. 899.00

No one has said it Canada but I will. I doubt very much that the difference will be the same as the price difference. I'm sure it will sound fantastic with your speakers but I'm sure you have a pretty good sound already. I would like one day to upgrade my AV receiver to see what I can get out of my speakers - even though I love the home cinema experience I already have.

 

[scene]

Canada, just noticed a homecinemacentre bay auction for an ex-demo sc-lx72 with 2 yr warranty for £799 buy it now, free shipping. Just thought I'd mention it in case you hadn't seen it

 

[Anonymous]

i think there comes a point where a set of speakers are being driven sufficiently, and adding a more powerful, higher specced avr wont make much difference, as was the case in a recent big question, where when using the q acoustics 2000 (im pretty sure that was the system), there was minimul improvements when switching from a regular avr, cant think what it was, to a very expensive yamaha, i think it was the z11 or something like that, costing £5k..

seeing as your going down the monitor audio rx6 av-12 route when finished, i guess you will see a decent improvement over your current avr,as id say that system could easily handle more power, but i doubt if it will be night and day? still, £899 seems a great price for a top avr, i can understand wanting to try it, i wouldnt say no at that money..

 

[keiser1]

The £899 price tag made my mind up!

I was a little aprehensive like yourself a few days before i brought it as i also couldn't manage a demo. But believe me when it arrives you'll be very pleased, it just looks very high end,its huge and built fantasticly, the gloss black metal front looks real quality, have alook on the Pioneer site and check out full band phase control etc, theres so many good things about this amp that well justifies the £899. It made my denon 1909 look fairly budget and i was very happy when i first brought that.

This may all sound biaste but i think you'll kick yourself if you let this go at this price.

 

[grdunn123]

Have you made your mind up yet Canada?? I put off twice today buying the MA RXFX rears as I'm broke and don't want to ramp up my credit card any more

I know tomorrow I'll probably bite the bullet as I'll get them Friday and can use them over the weekend...

I'm away working for almost the next 2 weeks from Monday and want to get them b4 I go!

 

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:

i think there comes a point where a set of speakers are being driven sufficiently, and adding a more powerful, higher specced avr wont make much difference, as was the case in a recent big question, where when using the q acoustics 2000 (im pretty sure that was the system), there was minimul improvements when switching from a regular avr, cant think what it was, to a very expensive yamaha, i think it was the z11 or something like that, costing £5k..

seeing as your going down the monitor audio rx6 av-12 route when finished, i guess you will see a decent improvement over your current avr,as id say that system could easily handle more power, but i doubt if it will be night and day? still, £899 seems a great price for a top avr, i can understand wanting to try it, i wouldnt say no at that money..

Hey that's quite a statement as well ,so if there was hardly a difference between a cheap amp and an amp that cost £5000.00 then how can What Hi-fi justify giving amps that cost £2000.00 + 5 stars if there is no real difference.

Was this in a mag, and what issue? I would like to read it.

I have not bought yet, was thinking about today or tomorrow, but if what hi-fi confirm this big question thing is correct then I might not buy, as I see no point if there was no discernable difference as you say max

 

[Deleted member 2457]

The better your speaker package the more difference you will notice between cheaper amps and amps that cost more. I suppose the thing to work out is what will drive your speakers to the best of there ability. One thing you could do is phone up the shop where you bought your speakers and tell them what you are thinking of doing and ask them would you hear a big difference. You could also ask the people who are selling the amp and see what they think.

 

[Deleted member 2457]

I recently read about a guys system this is what he had,

Monitor Audio Silver RX Centre

Radius 270 Fronts

Radius 180 rears

Sub AW12 sub

Partnered with the pioneer sc-lx71 amp, this guy said it sounded amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

canada16:maxflinn:

i think there comes a point where a set of speakers are being driven sufficiently, and adding a more powerful, higher specced avr wont make much difference, as was the case in a recent big question, where when using the q acoustics 2000 (im pretty sure that was the system), there was minimul improvements when switching from a regular avr, cant think what it was, to a very expensive yamaha, i think it was the z11 or something like that, costing £5k..

seeing as your going down the monitor audio rx6 av-12 route when finished, i guess you will see a decent improvement over your current avr,as id say that system could easily handle more power, but i doubt if it will be night and day? still, £899 seems a great price for a top avr, i can understand wanting to try it, i wouldnt say no at that money..

Hey that's quite a statement as well ,so if there was hardly a difference between a cheap amp and an amp that cost £5000.00 then how can What Hi-fi justify giving amps that cost £2000.00 + 5 stars if there is no real difference.

Was this in a mag, and what issue? I would like to read it.

I have not bought yet, was thinking about today or tomorrow, but if what hi-fi confirm this big question thing is correct then I might not buy, as I see no point if there was no discernable difference as you say max

the point i was trying to make is , and this is only my opinion, that once a set of speakers are being driven sufficiently well, then any change in avr, no matter how powerful or expensive, will not get that much more from the speakers, as was the case in the big question..

cant remember the episode it was in, but as i say, the speakers you will end up with, the rx6 av-12 when done? are much better and bigger than the q acoustics in the test, and id say probably will benefit from the big pioneer, i just dont think, and im assuming, i have no experience myself, that there will be a huge difference, but a more subtle difference, thats how i see it anyway..

as regards 5 stars for expensive amps? well, i doubt whfi test them with q acoustics 2000? id say its more likely they test them with speakers costing many thousands of pounds, where these top avr's need to work hard to earn their stars..

 

[Frank Harvey]

canada16:Hey that's quite a statement as well ,so if there was hardly a difference between a cheap amp and an amp that cost £5000.00 then how can What Hi-fi justify giving amps that cost £2000.00 + 5 stars if there is no real difference.

All speakers like power. The more you give them, the better they get. But obviously there will come a point where the amp just outclasses the speakers, and the extra benefit will be lost. The DSPZ11 is one of the finest one box AV amps you can buy, and stupid value for money, and is a class above any AV receiver t £2k or less. To appreciate this, the right speaker package is needed - the average DSPZ11 owner isn't going to have Q Acoustics - nothing against the brand, but they're likely to have a hi-fi speaker package like MA RX or Apex minimum, and maybe even the Platinum package. I think the problem with articles like this is that some people may skim them or not understand them fully, and take negatives from it. From that article, many people might think a Z11 is a waste of money and no better than a £2k receiver - which is pure nonsense.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Agreed

It's another reason why we've made the Big Question format easier to navigate in the redesign mag.

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew is sending me an email about it I think.

Thanks for that, It makes sence that yes when you get into the relm of the z11, then no point upgrading that.

But could not see how a 250.00 amp like the pioneer vsx-819, that I would not see a mass iprovment in sound with a 1600.00 amp.

Will be buying the RX6 with it, BTW as got the RX1 already and will be moving them to the rear.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok read the article and thanks again andrew for that.

What I got from it was:

It was the speakers, as no point upgrading to a 5000.00 amp if your speakers are as good as it gets with the denon.

But if you have better speakers like the Mordaunt shorts tested, thats were things begin to shine, so they advise to upgrade speakers first then look at better amps as you need a decent amp to make quality speakers shine.

So if I am buying the RX6 with RX1 rears, I dont think my VSX-819 will do them any justice.

Hope that all made sence