What should I upgrade first?

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dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
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yes, that sort of headshell will offer a lot more in the way of adaptability. However, if you are unsure as to how to set up a cartridge I would question spending this much on one of you want to get the most out of it. Even if the cartridge is correctly aligned within that headshell you will still need to alter the tracking weight. Do you have a local dealer that could help set-up the turntable?
Yes there is a guy who goes by the name "the turntable guy" who repairs and restores turntables. I will give him a call and ask him if he can do it. The shop I bought it from also has their own technician who goes through everything before they sell it. I wouldn't try to set it up myself, I'd have no clue lol.
 
Yes there is a guy who goes by the name "the turntable guy" who repairs and restores turntables. I will give him a call and ask him if he can do it. The shop I bought it from also has their own technician who goes through everything before they sell it. I wouldn't try to set it up myself, I'd have no clue lol.
that's good to hear, a brilliant cartridge incorrectly set-up is a waste of good money. Get one by all means if you know someone that can set it up perfectly for you.
 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
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that's good to hear, a brilliant cartridge incorrectly set-up is a waste of good money. Get one by all means if you know someone that can set it up perfectly for you.
Thanks for all the help! I think I'll call this guy up and go this route with the cartridge.
 
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dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
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If quite often doesn't. You may need the correct length bolts to fit the cartridge depending on the headshell type, looking at the TP16 you definitely need a selection of bolts or you could get a different headshell where the bolt holes go all the way through and are slotted to allow for any correction needed in the cartridge set-up. Personally I would not try to fix an expensive cartridge in the headshell you currently have If it is the one shown in TP16 photos
I've been doing a bit more research and I think it's actually the tp62 tonearm because the headshell matches that one, if that make any difference?

This is the headshell that is on mine. The one that is on the tp16 looks more like a flyswatter to me lol.

 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
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If that is the headshell you have it still doesn't look like you can bolts cartridge all the way through it.
Ok thanks! I got in touch with a dealer in Vancouver and he said that he recommends the Sumiko cartridges for the Thorens and that they fit and pair well together. Do you know anything about these cartridges? He recommended the amethyst or songbird for my price range. The songbird is a high output mc so he said it is meant for the mm preamp.
 
Ok thanks! I got in touch with a dealer in Vancouver and he said that he recommends the Sumiko cartridges for the Thorens and that they fit and pair well together. Do you know anything about these cartridges? He recommended the amethyst or songbird for my price range. The songbird is a high output mc so he said it is meant for the mm preamp.
I would avoid high output moving coils of I were you. Stick with moving magnet or moving iron, these if you have issues with the stylus and / or break the cantilever you don't have to buy a complete new cartridge you can simply replace the stylus. It's a darn sight cheaper.....
He may recommend Sumiko because that's were he makes most profit. They are, of course, American and not quite up with the best,personally I would not touch hi outout MC cartridges with a bargepole.
 
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dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
16
45
I would avoid high output moving coils of I were you. Stick with moving magnet or moving iron, these if you have issues with the stylus and / or break the cantilever you don't have to buy a complete new cartridge you can simply replace the stylus. It's a darn sight cheaper.....
He may recommend Sumiko because that's were he makes most profit. They are, of course, American and not quite up with the best,personally I would not touch hi outout MC cartridges with a bargepole.
Oh ok good to know. All this research and choices are hurting my brain lol. Just when I think I've got an answer, I don't o_O

So do I need something like a verso cartridge? Like where the screws are pointing upwards, which I assume you mount from underneath then.
 
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DougK

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Dec 8, 2013
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Oh ok good to know. All this research and choices are hurting my brain lol. Just when I think I've got an answer, I don't o_O

So do I need something like a verso cartridge? Like where the screws are pointing upwards, which I assume you mount from underneath then.
Does the finger-lift pivot in any way to expose the upper mounting points on the headshell? Because if it doesn't the Verso will not fit, as it appears that the mounting fasteners are from the underside to, I guess, a threaded headshell.
 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
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Does the finger-lift pivot in any way to expose the upper mounting points on the headshell? Because if it doesn't the Verso will not fit, as it appears that the mounting fasteners are from the underside to, I guess, a threaded headshell.
I'm not sure, I tried to wiggle it a bit but didn't want to use too much force since I don't really know what I'm doing. So what sort of cartridge am I looking at from what you can see? Would the ones I mentioned fit or do I need to go a different direction? Like the sumiko or nagaoke ones
 

DougK

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Dec 8, 2013
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I'm not sure, I tried to wiggle it a bit but didn't want to use too much force since I don't really know what I'm doing. So what sort of cartridge am I looking at from what you can see? Would the ones I mentioned fit or do I need to go a different direction? Like the sumiko or nagaoke ones
That also does not look like a removable headshell either, it appears to be a complete arm, (but I could be wrong though). Assuming the 2 screws in the image are actually screwed into the fixing from underneath then from the little I know you will need a cartridge that doesn't have threaded mounting holes and can be mounted from either direction. The few I'm aware of are definitely Nagaoka and Audio Technica, there are bound to be others. What you won't be able to mount are any of the Ortofon 2M range as they mount into threaded holes in the body from the upper-side. And anything with a headshell attached will not mount on your arm.
 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
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That also does not look like a removable headshell either, it appears to be a complete arm, (but I could be wrong though). Assuming the 2 screws in the image are actually screwed into the fixing from underneath then from the little I know you will need a cartridge that doesn't have threaded mounting holes and can be mounted from either direction. The few I'm aware of are definitely Nagaoka and Audio Technica, there are bound to be others. What you won't be able to mount are any of the Ortofon 2M range as they mount into threaded holes in the body from the upper-side. And anything with a headshell attached will not mount on your arm.
So nothing like this then?

 

DougK

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Dec 8, 2013
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So nothing like this then?

I would say no, the Amethyst appears to be a top-mount fitting only.

Nagaoka make very good cartridges but also take a look at Audio Technica too, maybe the AT VM740ML might be right up your street, or even the Nag MP200.

Try to be patient, we will get you there in the end... and find a good dealer to fit your chosen cartridge at the end of this
 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
16
45
I would say no, the Amethyst appears to be a top-mount fitting only.

Nagaoka make very good cartridges but also take a look at Audio Technica too, maybe the AT VM740ML might be right up your street, or even the Nag MP200.

Try to be patient, we will get you there in the end... and find a good dealer to fit your chosen cartridge at the end of this
Once again, thanks for all your help! I don't know how many hours I've spent reading and staring at cartridges lol.
Which of those brands do you prefer? I've read the nagaoke are really nice but don't sound great with the thorens tonearm (from a different forum posted years ago, so not sure how legit that is. Just another one of those frustrating things lol). There's a local hifi dealer where I live but they don't finance so not an option at this point. I don't mind going a bit higher end on the cartridge and make smaller payments because the plan is to eventually upgrade everything anyways). There's a few stores in Canada that do free delivery and finance. There's a local guy who repairs and restores turntables so I'll see if he can install my cartridge for me.
 

DougK

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Dec 8, 2013
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Once again, thanks for all your help! I don't know how many hours I've spent reading and staring at cartridges lol.
Which of those brands do you prefer? I've read the nagaoke are really nice but don't sound great with the thorens tonearm (from a different forum posted years ago, so not sure how legit that is. Just another one of those frustrating things lol). There's a local hifi dealer where I live but they don't finance so not an option at this point. I don't mind going a bit higher end on the cartridge and make smaller payments because the plan is to eventually upgrade everything anyways). There's a few stores in Canada that do free delivery and finance. There's a local guy who repairs and restores turntables so I'll see if he can install my cartridge for me.
I'm hoping other Thorens owners may be able to assist here as I've never owned one myself. I'm guessing the Nagaoka/Thorens compatibility you've previously read could be down to compliance issues, (this could be the same with Audio Technica), or maybe not.

If you have a local restorer then maybe have a word with him about your ideas and see what he would recommend. Failing that an excellent site for everything turntable based is vinylengine.com, very good site with lots of knowledgeable people, that site would definitely be my choice for your questions.
 
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dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
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I'm hoping other Thorens owners may be able to assist here as I've never owned one myself. I'm guessing the Nagaoka/Thorens compatibility you've previously read could be down to compliance issues, (this could be the same with Audio Technica), or maybe not.

If you have a local restorer then maybe have a word with him about your ideas and see what he would recommend. Failing that an excellent site for everything turntable based is vinylengine.com, very good site with lots of knowledgeable people, that site would definitely be my choice for your questions.
What do you mean exactly by compliance issues? Like not installed properly? I'll try to get a hold of this local guy as well and see what he thinks. Thanks again!
 

nopiano

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Feb 15, 2009
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What do you mean exactly by compliance issues? Like not installed properly? I'll try to get a hold of this local guy as well and see what he thinks. Thanks again!
You need a dealer!

Compliance refers to the stiffness of the suspension inside the cartridge that allows the stylus to move in the defined way. The stiffness has to be suitable for the mass of the arm. It’s complicated but you can Google it!
E.g. https://www.ortofon.com/support/support-hifi/resonance-frequency#:~:text=A phono cartridge with the compliance in the,value above 35µm/mN is very high compliance cartridge.
 
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dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
58
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Ok, so after some research I found that the mass of my arm should be 16.5g according to the Thorens website.

And this quick google search says the wand and headshell are 7.5grams. This is what it looks like.


So I plugged that into this calculator that I found on vinylengine and got this chart.


So my question is what do the numbers on the side of the graph mean? I am assuming that higher compliance cartridges are probably better based on this chart correct? I think I'm getting close lol
 
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Gray

Well-known member
You need a dealer!
...to end the guesswork.

I wouldn't expect everyone to know what compliance is, but weren't you talking about fitting a £1000 cartridge yourself?
With all due respect, leave it to someone else.
They will optimise performance and prevent you from having expensive accidents.
 

dupree

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
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...to end the guesswork.

I wouldn't expect everyone to know what compliance is, but weren't you talking about fitting a £1000 cartridge yourself?
With all due respect, leave it to someone else.
They will optimise performance and prevent you from having expensive accidents.
Oh no, I would definitely have someone else do it! I just need to know what cartridge to buy!
 
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nopiano

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So my question is what do the numbers on the side of the graph mean? I am assuming that higher compliance cartridges are probably better based on this chart correct? I think I'm getting close lol
Yes, you should aim for a higher compliance cartridge that fall into the green zone.
 

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