What? listening rooms

[admin_exported]

Dear all,

As the now infamous (reading the thread) OP of the dreaded 'locked' thread about listening rooms I think I should mention that I have been away on holiday for two weeks so came back to an amazing trail of comments I could never have imagined, some a little unfiar as I have been away from a PC for two weeks.

For those interested, the two biggest variables in any audio system are the room and the listeners ears. Much more so than cables and electronics. I remember back in the late '70s at University listening to two different speakers in a dealer's store with a ood friend of mine. We totally disagreed about the speakers. I loved one pair and he loved the other. Neither of us would have paid a single penny for the other pair. This is when I learned about the difference in people's ears.

Keep an open mind out there and buy you like, not what others say.

 

[SHAXOS]

Yep, can agree with that...

 

[Clare Newsome]

Well indeed!

You'll be very interested to hear, Sonic, that your original post - condemning our poor reviews of the new KEF iQ kit - has been rather overtaken by events since you've been away,

KEF has had the speakers back and found fault with them - not enough that we'd recognise them as in anyway damaged( because they weren't) but enough for us to mark them down as we did.

Therefore our reviews (and our rooms) are fully vindicated.

We'll be re-testing the KEFs when we get finalised speakers - as are (I hasten to add) ALL the pairs currently in dealers.

It was a simple case of us being sent the wrong (pre-production) review sets - nothing more or less than that.

We look forward to hearing the new models (and less of the groundless conspiracy theories from ill-informed Forum posters).

 

[Anonymous]

I suppose reviews are good in narrowing down our choices - I would certainly not consider any 3 star product.

At the end of the day, it's your ears and your money.

 

[drummerman]

For what its worth, the couple of new Kef's I've (briefly) heard seemed better than the outgoing ones. Now if what you're saying is that these very ones I've listened to are faulty as well and will be factory adjusted then I hope they wont change to much or change back to the sound of the predecessors which I found somewhat boxy and unrefined.

Also, could you give your opinion on ATC's new amp with the companies SM11 speakers as a combination please. I've read the separate reviews but perhaps you've tested them together. Thanks in advance.

 

[Alec]

This is great this, innit?

Nobody post again for 5 mins please, im off to get me popcorn and a beer.

 

[chebby]

Clare Newsome:Therefore our reviews (and our rooms) are fully vindicated.

It also vindicates those who heard the speakers for themselves and found their experience at odds with the WHF review. (Not talking about people making wild claims about your listening rooms.)

 

[Clare Newsome]

No, DM, as I said in my post, all KEF speakers in dealers are as they should be - but KEF mistakenly sent us some pre-production samples in a rush to get us kit for our Awards-judging deadline (well ahead of stock going into shops).

As I said, we'll be re-testing - with dealer stock.

As to ATC, i know a couple of the test team who'll know the answer to that. I'll bring this thread to their attention.

 

[Clare Newsome]

chebby:Clare Newsome:Therefore our reviews (and our rooms) are fully vindicated.

It also vindicates those who heard the speakers for themselves and found their experience at odds with the WHF review. (Not talking about people making wild claims about your listening rooms.)

Yep - though we'll lay off some of the superlatives used by some until we've heard the finished articles ourselves!

 

[chebby]

Clare Newsome:...but KEF mistakenly sent us some pre-production samples in a rush to get us kit for our Awards-judging deadline

Whoa! I assumed all samples sent from all manufacturers would be the same as we punters would find in a dealer dem room.

Whats with this 'special' pre-prod gear rushed out for awards? KEF should have their knuckles rapped. Backfired this time but what about next time? KEF could be instructing staff to make a sample pair with more than usually tolerance matched components.

 

[Clare Newsome]

chebby:Clare Newsome:...but KEF mistakenly sent us some pre-production samples in a rush to get us kit for our Awards-judging deadline

Whoa! I assumed all samples sent from all manufacturers would be the same as we punters would find in a dealer dem room.

Whats with this 'special' pre-prod gear rushed out for awards? KEF should have their knuckles rapped. Backfired this time but what about next time? KEF could be instructing staff to make a sample pair with more than usually tolerance matched components.

No, they sent us the pre-prod stuff by mistake.

If we have any doubts about a product being tweaked, BTW, we'll get/buy dealer stock and/or go and get a dealer demo ourselves.

 

[chebby]

Good to hear, Thanks.

 

[Alec]

chebby:Clare Newsome:...but KEF mistakenly sent us some pre-production samples in a rush to get us kit for our Awards-judging deadline

Whoa! I assumed all samples sent from all manufacturers would be the same as we punters would find in a dealer dem room.

Whats with this 'special' pre-prod gear rushed out for awards? KEF should have their knuckles rapped. Backfired this time but what about next time? KEF could be instructing staff to make a sample pair with more than usually tolerance matched components.

Um...they got over-enthusiastic and sent the wrong speaker sin their hurry...im looking for the big deal...no, cant find it.

Maybe its over there on the knoll.

 

[drummerman]

I have to say that has sometimes crossed my mind too. A review can make or break a companies fortune, especially smaller/newer ones but I dont think (hope) well established manufacturers would resort to such tactics. After all, if something does'nt live up to its promise it wont just hurt the maker but the publication reviewing it as well if everyone starts disagreeing with the review results.

I think most manufacturers are more honourable than that though I'm sure its been done before and will probably happen again.

 

[chebby]

al7478:...im looking for the big deal...no, cant find it.

The big deal would be a manufacturer sending out a set of pre-production review/awards/show specials that despite looking identical would have very closely toleranced components specially 'cherry picked' just for the magazines and shows whereas you and I listening at the dealer's would be listening to the 'cooking' versions.

Not (I agree) the crime of the century but bad faith.

 

[Alec]

chebby:al7478:...im looking for the big deal...no, cant find it.

The big deal would be a manufacturer sending out a set of pre-production review/awards/show specials that despite looking identical would have very closely toleranced components specially 'cherry picked' just for the magazines and shows whereas you and I listening at the dealer's would be listening to the 'cooking' versions.

Not (I agree) the crime of the century but bad faith.

AFAIK, that hasnt happenned.

 

[JoelSim]

chebby:al7478:...im looking for the big deal...no, cant find it.The big deal would be a manufacturer sending out a set of pre-production review/awards/show specials that despite looking identical would have very closely toleranced components specially 'cherry picked' just for the magazines and shows whereas you and I listening at the dealer's would be listening to the 'cooking' versions.Not (I agree) the crime of the century but bad faith.

If they could make a speaker sound better on a 'cherry-picked' one, why would they send out inferior ones to dealers????

ÿ

 

[Clare Newsome]

Let's not get into yet another thread of fevered speculation when there's a straightforward explanation - KEF made a genuine logistical error for which they've apologised. Our new review samples will come direct from dealer stock. Simple as that.

 

[chebby]

JoelSim:If they could make a speaker sound better on a 'cherry-picked' one, why would they send out inferior ones to dealers????

I am talking about the possibility of a manufacturer cherry picking components (crossovers components, drivers, tweeters) that are more closely matched and highly toleranced than normal.

Not even saying KEF are guilty of this. Just raised my antennae a little when it was mentioned they rushed out pre-production models to meet an awards deadline.

Seems to me that they should not be rushing out anything (whether superior, sub-standard or normal stock) to meet an awards deadline. I don't even think they should know when the deadline is.

I tend to prefer the old Rega approach to reviewers. "You want to review it then go buy it or borrow it." (I know this has relaxed a bit recently.) I also like Rega's attitude to advertising. None.

 

[Anonymous]

Is this a one off or what many of the manufacturers are doing?

 

[SHAXOS]

Just me perhaps but Its a bit convenient that they 'found' a fault with it after the review...

 

[Clare Newsome]

leenorris78:Is this a one off or what many of the manufacturers are doing?

We insist on full production models, so this is an exception.

We do (see Cyrus CD players and Sony receivers) often get the first batch off a production run, which can have teething problems - but then these units are also for sale to the public, so it allows us to highlight any issues for early adopters, and retest when any firmware/fixes have been made.

 

[Anonymous]

How convenient of KEF, I personally don't think they should get another chance, it seems a bit of to me for other manufactures POV and doesn't set a very good president IMHO.

 

[Clare Newsome]

Blimey, you're a tough lot! Errors get made, and people should be allowed the chance to correct them. The fact that we're going to re-review the speakers from dealer stock will allow us to present our opinion on the real-deal KEFs. Maybe we still won't like them. Maybe we will - who knows until we test them.

KEF's mistake has already cost the the iQ/C speakers any chance of being eligible for the Awards, so they've been punished for their error!

 

[John Duncan]

I think it's fair enough - if KEF feel the review doesn't tally with their own experience, and they know that the samples sent were rushed, why not let them submit another pair?

Arcam did it, and got the same three stars second time round

Give Gotham a second go I say!