What is happening with some makers?

[plastic penguin]

Over recent months there seems to be a string problems: BBB and his Roksan turntable, Steve and the Elicit saga, issue with Rega Saturn-R, other turntable woes. Cno had issues with his Arcam AV600 and MF 35i... Even your truly hasn't escaped this insidious disease increasingly infecting modern gear: The Naim CDP had to be returned for a transport repalcement and a few weeks before the Leema was returned for a second time with headphone humming.

Not saying it's the majority - definitely the minority, but the numbers are stacking up.

About time these so-called great manufactuers woke up and solved these niggly issues long before they reach the dealers.

 

[CnoEvil]

Over recent months there seems to be a string problems: BBB and his Roksan turntable, Steve and the Elicit saga, issue with Rega Saturn-R, other turntable woes. Cno had issues with his Arcam AV600 and MF 35i... Even your truly hasn't escaped this insidious disease increasingly infecting modern gear: The Naim CDP had to be returned for a transport repalcement and a few weeks before the Leema was returned for a second time with headphone humming.

Not saying it's the majority - definitely the minority, but the numbers are stacking up.

About time these so-called great manufactuers woke up and solved these niggly issues long before they reach the dealers.

I've certainly had issues with the AVR600, but iirc, nothing of note with the 35i (touches wood).

 

[steve_1979]

Is it my imagination or has the build quality of all things (not just hifi) gone down over the last 10-20 years. Technology and functionality seem to get better all the time but few things seem to be as solidly built from quality materials as they used to be.

Or maybe I'm getting old and it's just rose coloured spectacles. 8)

 

[Helmut80]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

 

[chebby]

Stuff breaks sometimes.

I would guess more stuff used to break even more often than it does now. (Before we get into any silly 'golden era when stuff never broke' nonsense.)

 

[respe]

I suppose some of it could be down to solder changes, some of it will be down to us (the customer) wanting more for less. Some could be down to where components are sourced, and QA/QC in the plants. It would also seem that QC in the production of the units has been alowed to drop to below acceptable levels. We seem to be reaching the point where the customer is thd first real inspector to see some products.l

 

[matthewpiano]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

Sounds worrying, but there is nothing on the Leema website about any administration or insolvency so probably best for us not to jump to any conclusions.

 

[NJB]

I suspect that the desire to hit certain price points has changed the way companies work. The design effort might be UK based, but then they look overseas to produce the equipment in volume. Remembering that modern consumer electronics is probably planned for a short life (how often do people change phones) then the build quality and components do not have to be stunning. Companies factor in for a small number of out of box failures, and a manufacturing or component fault is much easier to cope with than a design problem. I am sure some real top end manufacturers will still have a different philosophy, but most of us buy equipment made alongside your average household electronics in big factories. Not saying that is wrong, but our consumer and consuming culture is all pervading.

 

[BigH]

I will say things are not so well built these days, even top brands like Miele and Bosch are not so good apparently. Certainly cdp don't seem to last so long. I guess manufacturers are cutting costs. Reading other forums it seems some brands have now some problems where in the past they had a good rep.

 

[Electro]

Could it be a symptom of the massive worldwide problem with fake and recycled Chinese electronic components ?

Apparently it is increasingly difficult for electronics manufacturers to check the components they are buying .

http://www.edn.com/electronics-blogs/all-aboard-/4426389/Counterfeit-threats-for-electronic-parts

http://spectrum.ieee.org/semiconductors/processors/the-hidden-dangers-of-chopshop-electronics

 

[plastic penguin]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

Don't think it can be the same company. Different addresses.

http://www.leema-acoustics.com/

 

[chebby]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

Don't think it can be the same company. Different addresses.

http://www.leema-acoustics.com/

The place a company makes everything and the company's registered address are frequently different.

In this case it is definitely the same Leema Electro Acoustics. (How many do you think there are in one Welsh county?)

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yup, leema's gone, did a google, lots of info.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/60766/notices/1985002/single-issue

 

[stevebrock]

O dear!!

I hope PPs amp behaves itself

Seriously though its a shame seeing companies like this going bust!

 

[paul darwin]

At risk of sticking me head above an unwelcoming parapet, it seems that people are very quick to post their opinions and "problems" on line prior to giving a dealer and or a manufacturer the opportunity to investigate aforementioned "problems"

For example, the Elicit R problems that Steve claimed, we have been unable to replicate in at least two of the units, we have not even had the opportunity to comment privately about the Saturn R, let alone address the "problems"

It seems at every turn there are people who are very happy to criticise and the www gives them the platform to vent their spleen however inaccurate or biased that may be. I would absolutely defend peoples rights to comment about their experiences but with this freedom comes a responsibility that increasingly appears to being ignored with a preference for the Warholian 15 minutes of fame that the world wide web and various forums grants.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[jonathanRD]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

Don't think it can be the same company. Different addresses.

http://www.leema-acoustics.com/

The place a company makes everything and the company's registered address are frequently different.

In this case it is definitely the same Leema Electro Acoustics. (How many do you think there are in one Welsh county?)

And if you dig deeper, it lists the directors - which match the main guys at Leema.

Shame though, not many manufacturers left - especially in Wales

 

[plastic penguin]

Speaking of makers having trouble...

http://www.insolventcompanies.co.uk/leema-electro-acoustics-limited-04854378/

Don't think it can be the same company. Different addresses.

http://www.leema-acoustics.com/

The place a company makes everything and the company's registered address are frequently different.

In this case it is definitely the same Leema Electro Acoustics. (How many do you think there are in one Welsh county?)

And if you dig deeper, it lists the directors - which match the main guys at Leema.

Shame though, not many manufacturers left - especially in Wales

It is a shame but doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[plastic penguin]

At risk of sticking me head above an unwelcoming parapet, it seems that people are very quick to post their opinions and "problems" on line prior to giving a dealer and or a manufacturer the opportunity to investigate aforementioned "problems"

For example, the Elicit R problems that Steve claimed, we have been unable to replicate in at least two of the units, we have not even had the opportunity to comment privately about the Saturn R, let alone address the "problems"

It seems at every turn there are people who are very happy to criticise and the www gives them the platform to vent their spleen however inaccurate or biased that may be. I would absolutely defend peoples rights to comment about their experiences but with this freedom comes a responsibility that increasingly appears to being ignored with a preference for the Warholian 15 minutes of fame that the world wide web and various forums grants.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

I know this is aimed at me, but the thread is purely observational. Fully understand you want to protect your brand but this is a public forum. These aforementioned problems have been ongoing since at October (I could be wrong), sufficient time to find the problem. Can I suggest you take the aforementioned amp to Steve's place, sure he'll be willing to explore the option.

Yours, PP

(Typical of the poor individuals who spend their hard earned money on defective components).

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

In defence of Roksan, I've searched on the web to see if my motor problem is a common one, and I can find nothing else on it.

Also, their customer service was excellent when I had to transfer the warranty over from the original buyer, so I think I've just been unlucky.

 

[BigH]

At risk of sticking me head above an unwelcoming parapet, it seems that people are very quick to post their opinions and "problems" on line prior to giving a dealer and or a manufacturer the opportunity to investigate aforementioned "problems"

For example, the Elicit R problems that Steve claimed, we have been unable to replicate in at least two of the units, we have not even had the opportunity to comment privately about the Saturn R, let alone address the "problems"

It seems at every turn there are people who are very happy to criticise and the www gives them the platform to vent their spleen however inaccurate or biased that may be. I would absolutely defend peoples rights to comment about their experiences but with this freedom comes a responsibility that increasingly appears to being ignored with a preference for the Warholian 15 minutes of fame that the world wide web and various forums grants.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

But it works both ways, products get praised when users like them but also when they don't they get knocked. OK I can agree that more come on to complain about when something goes wrong than praise when it goes right but thats the way of the world at the moment. At least it gives you an avenue of response and to be able to sort any problems out.

 

[paul darwin]

Not aimed at you in any way, however if you believe the cap fits then so be it.

I still stand by the premise that in the first instance the dealer or manufacturer should be given an opprtunity to investigate any alleged "fault" before it is discussed on a forum such as this and / or others.

Without appearing paranoid, many large companies (of which we, of course, are not) now have to employ teams of people to defend their brands and reputation against unwarrented online and cyber attacks on them and their integrity. It is very easy, too easy arguably, for people to post opinions and views online that have no truth or veracity which can damage a company and their reputaion.

On another note it is sad to see Leema cease trading after such a relatively short period, perhaps this shows the challenging times ahead for UK manufacturers who face a potentially difficult and uncertain future whilst technology changes so rapidly.

The huge costs of research and development, licensing etc just to enable us just to keep pace and to design, build and launch the world class products we are collectively famous for is a challenge for us all, especially those of us who design, source (as far as we can) and hand build in the UK, as we do.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

 

[stevebrock]

It is very easy for people to post opinions and views online that have no truth

Can't quite believe what I am reading, I have nothing to gain by posting my opinions which in my opinion is fact.

You have acknowledged 2 amps were faulty

1 amp is in question - the buzzing one - it buzzed in my room at home, the first Elicit didnt neither did either of the Brios I have had.

The other amp in question (no.4) I beleive has the QC current fault, whne i returned it the dealers didnt even check the amp - they just wanted to give me a refund, they couldnt even get me out of the door quick enough. I wanted to buy a Brio R to tide me over so had to go somewhere else for one.

To summarise 2 faulty amps is enough in my book

I have been accused on this forum as a Rega Fan Boy, I am guilty of this as I have a TT, Speakers & DAC so I am not out to damage the brand.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

At risk of sticking me head above an unwelcoming parapet, it seems that people are very quick to post their opinions and "problems" on line prior to giving a dealer and or a manufacturer the opportunity to investigate aforementioned "problems"

For example, the Elicit R problems that Steve claimed, we have been unable to replicate in at least two of the units, we have not even had the opportunity to comment privately about the Saturn R, let alone address the "problems"

It seems at every turn there are people who are very happy to criticise and the www gives them the platform to vent their spleen however inaccurate or biased that may be. I would absolutely defend peoples rights to comment about their experiences but with this freedom comes a responsibility that increasingly appears to being ignored with a preference for the Warholian 15 minutes of fame that the world wide web and various forums grants.

Paul Darwin

Rega Research

But it works both ways, products get praised when users like them but also when they don't they get knocked. OK I can agree that more come on to complain about when something goes wrong than praise when it goes right but thats the way of the world at the moment. At least it gives you an avenue of response and to be able to sort any problems out.

+1!

Forums help buyers to choose the best components, yes they have to get up and demo in a store, but the market has many brand/models and costumers can get "lost".

Is important for costumers to know if the brand they choose a component is serious on the after sale service provided by that same brand! If the model is having some kind of problems and they have an option, or they wait for the problem to be solved or walk away from it...

Europe is not China and ower WWW is not controled by anyone, thank God!

So, I think brands in this actual market should have all the time in the world to test indoors all the products before commercialisation, I Know that Rega take all the time in the world before introducing a new product in the market, and Rega don't go with the flow.

 

[MakkaPakka]

Yup, leema's gone, did a google, lots of info.

http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/60766/notices/1985002/single-issue

Not gone but potentially going - 450k in the red.

If you look at the company records of even the reasonably well known companies you realise they're absoutely tiny.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Just for the record Paul, is Rega ever going to have a Streamer...?

I'm on the market for one and LOVE to have a rega streamer!!! :dance:

Or a upgrade from Rega DAC, in the same league as the Saturn line but without the CD player...? :?