What do you think about going to review and compare 10 years old CD players (like Marantz 63KI Signature) with new ones in the same range (like Marantz 6002) in some of next issues of What HiFi mag?
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50 THUMBS UP! That's a really good idea - what about a whole thing about old vs new - old amps v new amps old speakers v new speakes old cd-players vs new cd-players...pretty please WHF?
Oo yes go on WHF...I seem to remember this happened 'many moons ago' and it was interesting to see how much of the old stuff still produced beautiful sounds...
It's not something we're planning to cover in the mag, to be honest - maybe as a bit of fun online at some stage.
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
And then what? Fair enough if we say, for example, your old amp you still have is better than a new one - no need for you to upgrade - but what good does that do anyone else? Alright, it might set-off an eBay stampede, but who's to say those second-hand models are up to scratch in the same way the test sample was.
Apologies for being a miserable realist
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
And then what? Fair enough if we say, for example, your old amp you still have is better than a new one - no need for you to upgrade - but what good does that do anyone else? Alright, it might set-off an eBay stampede, but who's to say those second-hand models are up to scratch in the same way the test sample was.
Apologies for being a miserable realist
Drummerman is right they have a classic section also with all the greats from days gone by.............I have a NAD 3020 AMP From the 80/s back then it cost £69 it sounds great for a budget amp even compared to todays standards
Yeah - you are more than welcome to use my JVC A-X400 or JVC A-X5! The A-X5 was a real beast at the time and I cannot tell the difference between it and more modern stuff below £300, and it's 29 years old!
Only if you can find us samples of the new products which have ten years of use under their belts - have to keep the playing-field level, after all...
Or...find 10year old ones that have never been used.....or stick the amp on some Cerwin Vegas for 5 mins at full blast and that'll give it 10 years use...
[quote user="robg1976"]I have a NAD 3020 AMP From the 80/s back then it cost £69 it sounds great for a budget amp even compared to todays standards[/quote]
2 channel Technology has moved on little. Upsampling is just a fancy word for more elaborate oversampling, Most amps work on the same or similar principles except certain digital ones but PWM amplification has been around for years and some 'digital' amps still work on that principle. Speaker design is mostly the same with some fancy 'new' materials for cones but you find basic parameters have changed little.
Of course its a simplified way of looking at it and there are genuine technical improvements and innovations, but new is not always better just as the other way round holds true too. Manufacturers need to sell and a shiny kevlar cone or a cdp which over/up samples a little bit more than the previous one helps. Better?
Where I would draw the line is the NAD 3020. You gotta be kidding
2 channel Technology has moved on little. Upsampling is just a fancy word for more elaborate oversampling, Most amps work on the same or similar principles except certain digital ones but PWM amplification has been around for years and some 'digital' amps still work on that principle. Speaker design is mostly the same with some fancy 'new' materials for cones but you find basic parameters have changed little.
Of course its a simplified way of looking at it and there are genuine technical improvements and innovations, but new is not always better just as the other way round holds true too. Manufacturers need to sell and a shiny kevlar cone or a cdp which over/up samples a little bit more than the previous one helps. Better?
Where I would draw the line is the NAD 3020. You gotta be kidding
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
It's not something we're planning to cover in the mag, to be honest - maybe as a bit of fun online at some stage.
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
[/quote]
OK. But how about "NOW AND THEN" heading? Is it possible for you WHF people to look into your archive and remind us about products we have been "going slightly mad" those days, something like retro reminder?
It's not something we're planning to cover in the mag, to be honest - maybe as a bit of fun online at some stage.
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
[/quote]
OK. But how about "NOW AND THEN" heading? Is it possible for you WHF people to look into your archive and remind us about products we have been "going slightly mad" those days, something like retro reminder?
John Duncan
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I have a better idea. Take a budget system (the Cambridge one in your latest Ultimate guide, say), and put each component in turn into your reference system (Naim/Bryston/ATC if I recall), and tell us which system sounds best. Then we can have a 'source first (or not)' debate.
[quote user="Clare Newsome"]
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
[/quote]
employ me part time and I wil show you all the tricks of box swapper
The huge problem would be finding a samples of said old kit that were reliable, fully functioning and representative units.
[/quote]
employ me part time and I wil show you all the tricks of box swapper
John Duncan
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Maybe you can tell me whether I'm all wrong then thaiman, as a serial swapper - take a £10k system and put a Marantz 6002 in it, and put a Pathos in front of a Rotel RA-02 and Tannoy Mercurys, which is gonna sound better?
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]Maybe you can tell me whether I'm all wrong then thaiman, as a serial swapper - take a £10k system and put a Marantz 6002 in it, and put a Pathos in front of a Rotel RA-02 and Tannoy Mercurys, which is gonna sound better?[/quote]
I am so lost! John, it's all about system matching when we are talking high end. The budget range will more or less work together doesn't matter which brand you are buying.
If you put Marantz 6002 in my system, the Sugden masterclass pre/GamuT D200 mk3 power,the system will become a bit flat, rounded top and bottom but not as bad as some may think. However if you would have put Tannoy Mercury in place of my gorgeous Amphion then the sound would then become compressed, harsh lacking details etc...etc. all imo of course.
I am so lost! John, it's all about system matching when we are talking high end. The budget range will more or less work together doesn't matter which brand you are buying.
If you put Marantz 6002 in my system, the Sugden masterclass pre/GamuT D200 mk3 power,the system will become a bit flat, rounded top and bottom but not as bad as some may think. However if you would have put Tannoy Mercury in place of my gorgeous Amphion then the sound would then become compressed, harsh lacking details etc...etc. all imo of course.
John Duncan
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[quote user="Thaiman"]not as bad as some may think[/quote]
And there's the rub - it's just that I've found much bigger improvements by replacing amp and speakers than by auditioning £1k (even £2k) CD players, I'm curious whether others have done as well.
And there's the rub - it's just that I've found much bigger improvements by replacing amp and speakers than by auditioning £1k (even £2k) CD players, I'm curious whether others have done as well.
[quote user="JohnDuncan"]auditioning £1k (even £2k) CD players[/quote]
A lot of cd player sound similar that I agree!
Many of them sharing same components such as burr brown dac and pc rom transport but each cd player change in the system you should be able to hear the different.
The expensive cd player normally gain that extra details, authority and pin sharp imaging.....again without suitable amps or speakers you will never find out what top design cd player can do!
A lot of cd player sound similar that I agree!
Many of them sharing same components such as burr brown dac and pc rom transport but each cd player change in the system you should be able to hear the different.
The expensive cd player normally gain that extra details, authority and pin sharp imaging.....again without suitable amps or speakers you will never find out what top design cd player can do!
[quote user="fr0g"]
I would go further...
I think 99% of the population wouldn't tell the difference with that CD player in place of (insert stupidly priced disk-spinner here).
[/quote]
I bet you could! I am as sceptic as you but I could tell the different between Cyrus 7Q and Cyrus CD8! (almost the same components inside....8 being cd rom base rather than 7Q dedicated transport)
and to take it further, You wouldn't notice a lot of different when put high end cd player in budget system because it only gonna be as good as ability of amp and speakers! I once turn my nose at dCS cd player because it was in wrong system but since then I heard the very same player with different amp and speakers and it was mind blowing experienced.
cd players......It's not as black and white as you might think
I would go further...
I think 99% of the population wouldn't tell the difference with that CD player in place of (insert stupidly priced disk-spinner here).
[/quote]
I bet you could! I am as sceptic as you but I could tell the different between Cyrus 7Q and Cyrus CD8! (almost the same components inside....8 being cd rom base rather than 7Q dedicated transport)
and to take it further, You wouldn't notice a lot of different when put high end cd player in budget system because it only gonna be as good as ability of amp and speakers! I once turn my nose at dCS cd player because it was in wrong system but since then I heard the very same player with different amp and speakers and it was mind blowing experienced.
cd players......It's not as black and white as you might think
John Duncan
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[quote user="JohnDuncan"]So we're agreed - I need a pair of Wilson Benesch Square Ones?[/quote]
Why? with the right system they shine but could be bright (very) if partner wrongly.
ACT or ARC would be better all round imo.
Why? with the right system they shine but could be bright (very) if partner wrongly.
ACT or ARC would be better all round imo.
John Duncan
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It's ok thaiman, I was being (slightly) facetious. Am just saying that I'd get more benefit from spending 1500 quid on a speaker than a CD player.
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