What hi fi mains cables

[admin_exported]

Hi All

Do you think Clear Audio copper line(£35) mains cable would make a big difference to my current set up on the amp and cdp. They will be going straight in to the wall socket not through the cs929.

Thanks.

 

[True Blue]

Audition one and find out........30 day money back guarentee I think. I would feed the CDP from the tacima and the Amp direct from the wallsocket BTW.

 

[Anonymous]

hi gtncj,i my opinion the power lead upgrade would be best suited to your cd player,cd players tend to respond the best to power lead upgrades,you may notice a change when connected to the amp,however it may not necessarily be to your liking,i have found that its only hi end amps that respond better to power lead upgrades,i dont have the luxury of 30 day trials here in aus,so i would take full advantage of clearer audios offer,i use there copperline power lead with furutech plug and wattgate and it works a treat on my primare cd player.i use a furutech lead with my primare amp which improves the bass and adds air to the treble and improves the soundstage,you should notice improvement in detail from your cd player,however please make sure you have your speakers correctly set up to produce the best soundstage before experimentation with power leads,and when making comparisons try to sit in the sweet spot to give yourself the best chance to hear a difference,good luck.

 

[Anonymous]

Gtncj:Hi All

Do you think Clear Audio copper line(£35) mains cable would make a big difference to my current set up on the amp and cdp. They will be going straight in to the wall socket not through the cs929.

Thanks.

All depends the quality of your original leads are, if they are good quality leads it will not make any difference at all. I found this trying one on my Naim Amp, absolutely no difference at all, but then Naim supply extremely good mains leads..........

 

[Anonymous]

Limiting factor is the length and quality of the many metres of cables inside your walls and also that leading down the street - all the way from the sub-station.

The short length of cable you are refering to is meaningless!!

Unless you have a filter system/conditioning unit getting rid of all the mains born pollution coming from yours and neighbours equipment!

 

[JoelSim]

Stumpy21:
Limiting factor is the length and quality of the many metres of cables inside your walls and also that leading down the street - all the way from the sub-station.

The short length of cable you are refering to is meaningless!!

Unless you have a filter system/conditioning unit getting rid of all the mains born pollution coming from yours and neighbours equipment!

Wrong, wrong, wrong. Trust you ears.

 

[True Blue]

Wrong.

The long lines are not that long (what
matters is the Cable to the Transformer feeding your house). In
addition, much of the effects mains-cables have can be traced back to
RFI and noise-loops from the house ring and radial circuits. The upgraded mains cables prevents these getting to your equipment @ source.

I am not going to enter into yet another cable debate after this. Just listen, trust your ears. If you hear a difference buy the cable if not dont.

 

[Anonymous]

listen i dont want to get into this but dont forget the whole idea of stereo is to try to trick our ears in the first place http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stereo therefore we trust our ears to believe the illusion not the reality

 

[Anonymous]

Prior to going to the trouble of choosing a mains cable from a third party, try calling your amp, CD manufacturer etc. Ask them if they feel it will make make a difference to your kit. It may surprise you that some amp designers are aware of the issue of public and domestic electricity supply and have already accounted for it.....

 

[JoelSim]

Cable Lover:Prior to going to the trouble of choosing a mains cable from a third party, try calling your amp, CD manufacturer etc. Ask them if they feel it will make make a difference to your kit. It may surprise you that some amp designers are aware of the issue of public and domestic electricity supply and have already accounted for it.....

That's 10 posts now, has a single one been helpful?

Or is your sole raison d'etre to pan anyone who wants to talk about cables. Most have money back guarantees so if the OP wants to trial something he is in a no-lose situation. Without your 'help'

 

[matthewpiano]

The point for me here is that listening to music is such a personal experience. Consequently all that matters is what we hear with our own ears and, for any sane person, that should be enough justification. We all hear things differently and we all listen to different music in different acoustic spaces and with mains supplies of varying qualities. That is why there isn't a single solution that suits everyone (despite the assertions of the AVI brigade) and that is why a forum is such a valuable resource for sharing in a variety of different experiences.

It seems some people contribute to these forums purely with the intention of carrying out some sort of campaign against something they don't believe in, rather than for seeking or providing help. Just lately this element seems to be growing and too many threads which start out with (often new) members requesting advice start to descend into some sort of battle that helps nobody, least of all the OP. We see it with cables but also with various other issues across the forum and it all gets so negative.

 

[chebby]

Joel are you saying that if a person disagrees with you then it is 'not helpful'?

I think phoning the manufacturer for recommendations on cables is quite a good idea.

Someone saying that manufacturers of cables should provide some explanation of how the effects of their product are 'designed' and measured for is reasonable.

Most companies could offer an explanation of why their CD player (or amp or speaker or turntable) is better and the designers of such products need to be able to predict reliably how changes to components will improve sound quality otherwise they would just be risking making worse products instead of better ones or using up inordinate amounts of R&D money without really knowing what they are doing.

Cable designers MUST know - when they sit down with a clean piece of paper (or screen) - exactly what is going to make the next cable better than the last one. They don't have the resource to test thousands of different combinations of materials and make them all into prototypes to test out.

There must be some 'science' behind it all and if so, then it should be explained in the same way a tonearm designer can explain the phyics and mechanics of a better arm or what makes a better amplifier design can be explained to another electrical engineer.

It can't all be just blind luck and semi religious faith on the part of cable designers at Nordost, Chord and QED et al. (I uses the words 'religious' and 'faith' because of the frequency with which you use the term 'non-believers' in these matters.)

 

[matthewpiano]

Now I've got that last post off my chest I'm going to take a break for a couple of weeks and concentrate on enjoying my music. Busy times at present with the pre-Christmas surge starting at work and various activities as a pianist (piano trio, repetiteur work etc.) so its a good opportunity for me to come up for air.

 

[JoelSim]

chebby:
Joel are you saying that if a person disagrees with you then it is 'not helpful'?

I think phoning the manufacturer for recommendations on cables is quite a good idea.

No Chebby I'm not, but given his short history he only contributes negatively to cable threads, and nothing else. At least the rest of us try to help people.

Alternatively the OP could listen and make his/her own mind up. At the end of the day, that's what counts.

 

[the record spot]

Anyone who feels their money is well spent in handing over a substantial three or four figure sum (as is readily possible) for a cable is welcome to their opinion. I hope, likewise, that their senses are happy wherever they land, having previously taken extended leave of their host's head...

 

[Anonymous]

JoelSim:
Cable Lover:Prior to going to the trouble of choosing a mains cable from a third party, try calling your amp, CD manufacturer etc. Ask them if they feel it will make make a difference to your kit. It may surprise you that some amp designers are aware of the issue of public and domestic electricity supply and have already accounted for it.....

That's 10 posts now, has a single one been helpful?

Or is your sole raison d'etre to pan anyone who wants to talk about cables. Most have money back guarantees so if the OP wants to trial something he is in a no-lose situation. Without your 'help'

Thanks for this. I think every post has been helpful. For example, when I used to own a well-known brand of amp, I called the manufacturer to find that they have mains conditioning circuitry in their amp. Saved me the time, trouble and effort of investing any time, cash or emotion in foo cables or mains conditioners.

I have also encouraged people to think about why this stuff is contentious by doing their own research. You say you've tried 30 cables. If someone else can be spared the time, trouble and cash then I've done a good job. If you are constantly trying cables, you have a system you don't like, or one that is never finished, therefore it detracts from the enjoyment of the music. You must constantly be thinking "How can I get a little bit extra?"

No-one has answered my general points about the hundreds of feet of wire in the speakers or wire in the kit making a difference. Or the circuits and components that stand between the foo wire and the sound. Nor have they commented on the gold plated brass hardware. Why not replace that? Is it because replacements aren't being marketed as vigorously as bits of wire?

I note now on various fora that people are claiming that 1's and 0's in digital music can sound different, and can be affected by HDD's, USB cables, optical cables etc. This I assume is the next great opportunity for foo accessories.....

Always think: "Show me the money....." A rule I go by in life whenever there's money making involved. It generally gives a good handle on people's motivations.

 

[matengawhat]

i personally noted the biggest change when i bought a merlin tarantula mains block, better sound stage less distortion when i then upgaded each components cable to me the difference was minimal

i am lucky my lounge is a floating ceiling above my garage and my fuse box is in there so I will shortly be having a new circuit put in just for the stereo and home cinema system so will let you know how that goes

 

[JoelSim]

chebby:
Joel are you saying that if a person disagrees with you then it is 'not helpful'?

I think phoning the manufacturer for recommendations on cables is quite a good idea.

Someone saying that manufacturers of cables should provide some explanation of how the effects of their product are 'designed' and measured for is reasonable.

Most companies could offer an explanation of why their CD player (or amp or speaker or turntable) is better and the designers of such products need to be able to predict reliably how changes to components will improve sound quality otherwise they would just be risking making worse products instead of better ones or using up inordinate amounts of R&D money without really knowing what they are doing.

Cable designers MUST know - when they sit down with a clean piece of paper (or screen) - exactly what is going to make the next cable better than the last one. They don't have the resource to test thousands of different combinations of materials and make them all into prototypes to test out.

There must be some 'science' behind it all and if so, then it should be explained in the same way a tonearm designer can explain the phyics and mechanics of a better arm or what makes a better amplifier design can be explained to another electrical engineer.

It can't all be just blind luck and semi religious faith on the part of cable designers at Nordost, Chord and QED et al. (I uses the words 'religious' and 'faith' because of the frequency with which you use the term 'non-believers' in these matters.)

I don't disagree Chebby.

'Non-believers' is simply a reference to 'all cables sound the same' which is effectively what some are saying, when that is plainly not true. As The Record Spot correctly says the listener has to work out where the VFM equation is at its optimum, there is no point spending £3,000 on a cable for a system costing £500. But there is sense in spending £200 for a system costing £5,000.

 

[JoelSim]

Cable Lover:JoelSim:
Cable Lover:Prior to going to the trouble of choosing a mains cable from a third party, try calling your amp, CD manufacturer etc. Ask them if they feel it will make make a difference to your kit. It may surprise you that some amp designers are aware of the issue of public and domestic electricity supply and have already accounted for it.....

That's 10 posts now, has a single one been helpful?

Or is your sole raison d'etre to pan anyone who wants to talk about cables. Most have money back guarantees so if the OP wants to trial something he is in a no-lose situation. Without your 'help'

Thanks for this. I think every post has been helpful. For example, when I used to own a well-known brand of amp, I called the manufacturer to find that they have mains conditioning circuitry in their amp. Saved me the time, trouble and effort of investing any time, cash or emotion in foo cables or mains conditioners.

I have also encouraged people to think about why this stuff is contentious by doing their own research. You say you've tried 30 cables. If someone else can be spared the time, trouble and cash then I've done a good job. If you are constantly trying cables, you have a system you don't like, or one that is never finished, therefore it detracts from the enjoyment of the music. You must constantly be thinking "How can I get a little bit extra?"

No-one has answered my general points about the hundreds of feet of wire in the speakers or wire in the kit making a difference. Or the circuits and components that stand between the foo wire and the sound. Nor have they commented on the gold plated brass hardware. Why not replace that? Is it because replacements aren't being marketed as vigorously as bits of wire?

I note now on various fora that people are claiming that 1's and 0's in digital music can sound different, and can be affected by HDD's, USB cables, optical cables etc. This I assume is the next great opportunity for foo accessories.....

Always think: "Show me the money....." A rule I go by in life whenever there's money making involved. It generally gives a good handle on people's motivations.

You are correct, I am always striving to make my system better, it is my hobby and yes I enjoy it. I love the sound it makes and in my experience cables have played their part in refining the sound and squeezing a little extra out of the components.

I don't have the skill to open up an amp and change the connections inside, much work from the manufacturers goes into the signal path and the components used in this signal path are driven by the cost of the product, built down to a price.

You've said it above 'foo'. Have you tried different cables?

By the way my 30 cables have been over a significant number of years and various bits of kit of various levels. As I've said before not all have improved the sound, but some certainly have.

Let's leave it now, you have your view, I have heard benefits but it seems never the twain...

I do agree about the money-making thing, it's one of the first rules of capitalism, but if you're product ain't up to the job then you'll soon get found out.

 

[Anonymous]

Ofcourse, changing power leads is nonsense. Anyone who claims to hear any difference, hears want he wants to believe, really.

A whole universe of power stations, powerlines and transformers is out there, and some believe that the last few inches to your CD or amplifier are going to make the difference? Over the power stabilisation and digital signal processing within your devices?

I don't want to sound unpolite, but ofcourse this is a way of some hifi-resellers to add margin in a quick way. Proof this so called 'audible improvement' in any mathematical, and scientific way. It just won't be possible : whether you talk about HDMI, USB or loudspeaker cable, the thin line between excellence in technology + good quality and pure voodoo has become extremely small nowadays.

As always has been, the only way to boost the quality of your music reproduction is to invest more bucks in better components, not in cables that look a few times as thick as they should.

 

[PJPro]

Phoning the amp manufacturer is an interesting point actually. It makes you wonder why more manufacturers don't produce their own cables (like Naim?). OK, so some just won't be geared up to do this but I would have expected something akin to the washing powder or dishwasher ads....you know Whirlpool recommend Daz. So Arcam recommend QED...

Just to make my own position known, I am in the middle on the endless cable debate. Not all cables will sound the same. Shielding, impedence, materials will all make a difference to the signal. I'm slightly less comfortable with power cables....though am prepared to have an open mind.

However, as JoelSim points out, there is no point spending big cable money on a budget system. Why? The internal components of the amp, CDP, whatever will act to limit any potential benefits gained.

I personally think that cables are generally overpriced and that, I think, leads to some of the controversy. I also think that some of the claims made by the manufacturers are somewhat overblown and tend to strike a nerve within a section the listening community.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks gents I am happy with my cdp and amp I can hear a difference in sound from my QED to Atlas phono cables and also had an improvement in sound from Atlas to Chord carnival speaker cable. I will upgrade my phono amp and turntable (record player) next year hopefully rega p2 and CA 640p. I know mains cables make a difference as I can hear a difference in sound when the cdp is plugged into the CS 929 and into the wall, It actully sounds better in the wall. In the CS 929 the midrange sounds resticted IMO. I just wanted to know if the copperline was a good choice for £35 if not I will get the £60 Chord screened main cable.

thanks for the feedback gtncj.

 

[Craig M.]

isn't your cs929 a filter rather then a cable?

 

[Anonymous]

HI Craig M
I belive its a main conditioner.