What do streamers actually do?

[chebby]

Can someone remind me what the point of a dedicated streamer is? (I get this confused sometimes.)

I now have a Mac Mini (bought just a few weeks ago to replace a very old iMac), I have an iPad Mini with the Remote app and my setup has a DAC.

Ignoring the rest of my system for now (let's just assume it's any hi-fi with a DAC and the correct connectivity), what would a dedicated streamer bring to the party?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I'm not a Streamer supporter, as I think you can get a better sound quality using a dedicated DAC and use a PC or a NAS as a streamer.

with a Streamer you are paing for another features that you may need or not! Like internet radio, DAB, pre amp, ithing input...

 

[cheeseboy]

it depends on what the streamer has in it asto it's swiss army knife ability.

In it's basic form, a streamer is basically a computer, usually running a cut down version of linux or some form of windows embedded, that takes a source file (either from the internet, or from a nas, or a computer) and then sends it to an output deivice (built in dac, external dac etc). Controlling this device is usually done through either a front panel or a bit of software on a computer/tablet/phone.

That's it. It shouldn't really do anything to the file unless it has some for of eq in it.

This is why it's a bit of con that *some* hifi companies try to charge more than say 500 quid for a such a device that's is doing *exactly* the same that a raspberry pi does.

 

[Waxy]

My reasoning behind the purchase...

1. I didn't want to connect my PC to the hi-fi - no room!

2. I wanted internet radio, controllable via an iOS app

3. My other half can play from her iTunes library on the iPad

4. If I ever get my a*** in gear and burn my CD collection to a NAS, I can stream from it.

Plus, the streamer in quesiton was heavily discounted. Very impressed with it so far. I have wasted a lot of time randomly surfing internet radio!!

 

[andyjm]

Can someone remind me what the point of a dedicated streamer is? (I get this confused sometimes.)

I now have a Mac Mini (bought just a few weeks ago to replace a very old iMac), I have an iPad Mini with the Remote app and my setup has a DAC.

Ignoring the rest of my system for now (let's just assume it's any hi-fi with a DAC and the correct connectivity), what would a dedicated streamer bring to the party?

Functionally, a streamer interfaces to a mass storage system (hard drive, NAS, the net), allows you to index and search for files and then download the data, converting into a format that will drive either an internal or external DAC.

You have all of this in your MacMini.

As pointed out above, a very capable streamer can be built using the Raspberry Pi. There are a number of free applications to turn the Pi into an audio and video streamer. Not bad for £25.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

My reasoning behind the purchase...

1. I didn't want to connect my PC to the hi-fi - no room!

2. I wanted internet radio, controllable via an iOS app

3. My other half can play from her iTunes library on the iPad

4. If I ever get my a*** in gear and burn my CD collection to a NAS, I can stream from it.

Plus, the streamer in quesiton was heavily discounted. Very impressed with it so far. I have wasted a lot of time randomly surfing internet radio!!

I can do all that with my synology NAS...

 

[ID.]

Currently use my Mac Mini and ATV as a streamer. I think I'd like a dedicated streamer if I didn't want to have to turn on my computer or wake it up, etc. in order to stream. Using a NAS or a hard drive plugged into it directly. Then again, I could skip the dedicated streamer by using a Synology NAS directly into a USB DAC.

By the way, is the Synology pretty much compatible with all USB DACs, or do some have issues?

 

[Overdose]

Ignoring the rest of my system for now (let's just assume it's any hi-fi with a DAC and the correct connectivity), what would a dedicated streamer bring to the party?

Nothing more than the Mac already provides.

If you only wanted to stream, then a streamer might be the better option regarding power consumption, but dedicated hifi streamers are not very good value for money, especially when compared to a small Pc.

 

[nopiano]

I think one problem is that streamers are not all the same. As already noted, they may have tuner capability, a decent display, a dedicated remote wand, compatability with the provider of your choice (e.g. Spotify), and so on. Some are more like complete systems with amp, such as the Sneaky and some Cyrus models. To me, the most 'typical' is the Pioneer N50.

I think they all have DACs, and can usually output a digital stream to an outboard DAC too. The biggest benefit to me is if you want to avoid having a PC/Mac in the same room and powered up. in theorey at least, computer audio is more processing focussed and less sound orientated. How else can you charge £thousands for a Linn Klimax?

I'd be tempted by the Krell streamer if the DAC could be used for my CDP too, but it lacks an input. Many share the same crummy screen too.

 

[gowiththeflow]

I think we'll see more and more components with combinations of functions; e.g. amps with built-in DAC's and Streamers etc.

Arcam's new streamer is combined with the only CD left in their range (the CDS27). That seems like a sensible approach as a stand alone CD player is more likely to be a low volume product in the near future (if not already). Incidentally, it also plays SACD's.

Primaire have combined streamer and DAC functionality into most of their amp ranges, the in-built streamer being an option on the i32 and PRE32 and a standard fit with the PRE60.

I've been happy using a Sonos connect into my main hifi set-up, but have been quite interested in developments like the Naim Uniti series. Again, in the Naim case, the streamer is combined with other functions; in this case as an all-in-one, with or without a CD player.

I have also considered most stand alone streamers to be overpriced and unnecessary. However, having recently aquired a NAD M2 at a much reduced price, I've taken the opportunity to purchase the matching streamer at a considerable saving. Apart from the price, what swung it for me was the built-in CD player and CD ripping functionality. In other words I haven't just bought a Streamer.

OK I already have the ripping capability, but I was already looking for a new CD transport and there was also the convenience aspect of local ripping and storage alongside my main system. I've saved on a new NAS as well.

Rather than just a Streamer, I have a combined Streamer, CD transport and CD ripper; plus have saved on another NAS. I've also aquired some extra convenience too. Have I paid over the odds? Yes! Was it worth it? So far I'm happy.

.

 

[cheeseboy]

I think they all have DACs, and can usually output a digital stream to an outboard DAC too.

not really no. A streamer in it's basic form just needs a form of digital output. It doesn't need to include a dac. By it's very name, it just takes information from one place and passes it to another (usually an outboard, or in some cases, onboard dac).

The biggest benefit to me is if you want to avoid having a PC/Mac in the same room and powered up.

agreed, but as also stated, a raspberry pi makes a great streamer and will probably pull less power than a dedicated streamer, in fact you can run it off batteries.

in theorey at least, computer audio is more processing focussed and less sound orientated..

sorry, i disagree. Like I said earlier, any form of streamer will be running a version of linux of windows embedded - ie, the very same software you are using on your computers. The line between what people think a computer is an what a computer actually is is quite blurred now.

How else can you charge £thousands for a Linn Klimax?

because they can. and people will buy it.

 

[cheeseboy]

Rather than just a Streamer, I have a combined Streamer, CD transport and CD ripper; plus have saved on another NAS. I've also aquired some extra convenience too. Have I paid over the odds? Yes! Was it worth it? So far I'm happy.

ok firstly I'm not knocking anything - glad you are happy, wish there were more people who were : I just want to say though as a devils advocate thing, and again, please don't take this as having a go, that's nothing that a little computer couldn't do as well. In fact, what you have just bought is a computer in a different casing...

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

Currently use my Mac Mini and ATV as a streamer. I think I'd like a dedicated streamer if I didn't want to have to turn on my computer or wake it up, etc. in order to stream. Using a NAS or a hard drive plugged into it directly. Then again, I could skip the dedicated streamer by using a Synology NAS directly into a USB DAC.

By the way, is the Synology pretty much compatible with all USB DACs, or do some have issues?

Some DACs can't be used through their USB inputs with a NAS, specialy those who require drivers intalation, but if they have a optical or coax input you can add a USB/coax converter.

So far i've demo some plug and play USB DACs: Rega DAC, Naim V1DAC, Primare DAC30 and the Naim UQ that is a streamer but can be used as a external DAC as well.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I think we'll see more and more components with combinations of functions; e.g. amps with built-in DAC's and Streamers etc.

Arcam's new streamer is combined with the only CD left in their range (the CDS27). That seems like a sensible approach as a stand alone CD player is more likely to be a low volume product in the near future (if not already). Incidentally, it also plays SACD's.

Primaire have combined streamer and DAC functionality into most of their amp ranges, the in-built streamer being an option on the i32 and PRE32 and a standard fit with the PRE60.

I've been happy using a Sonos connect into my main hifi set-up, but have been quite interested in developments like the Naim Uniti series. Again, in the Naim case, the streamer is combined with other functions; in this case as an all-in-one, with or without a CD player.

I have also considered most stand alone streamers to be overpriced and unnecessary. However, having recently aquired a NAD M2 at a much reduced price, I've taken the opportunity to purchase the matching streamer at a considerable saving. Apart from the price, what swung it for me was the built-in CD player and CD ripping functionality. In other words I haven't just bought a Streamer.

OK I already have the ripping capability, but I was already looking for a new CD transport and there was also the convenience aspect of local ripping and storage alongside my main system. I've saved on a new NAS as well.

Rather than just a Streamer, I have a combined Streamer, CD transport and CD ripper; plus have saved on another NAS. I've also aquired some extra convenience too. Have I paid over the odds? Yes! Was it worth it? So far I'm happy.

.

For that you can use something like the CocktailAudio, you can fit a HDD in it and use it has a "NAS"(with limitations), streamer, CD riper, CD player, amp and much more. http://www.cocktailaudio.co.uk

 

[Waxy]

I can do all that with my synology NAS...

You must be so pleased...

 

[Native_bon]

The piont of my streamer, makes me listen to more music. Also now listen to songs long forgotten as a result of now having all my songs on a seagate NAS drive. I can download music from my NAS drive anywere in the world. PASSWORD & am in. Also you begin to realise what albums or tracks are well record due to easy control & access to the music. STill play occassional cds, but never do without streaming again.

Oh aslo every one in the house has access to the NAS drive to listen to music on there own device or music system at anytime or watch movies. I used to be worried about the setup stuff & all that, but after the first time setup its just a joy to use.. Love it.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

The piont of my streamer, makes me listen to more music. Also now listen to songs long forgotten as a result of now having all my songs on a seagate NAS drive. I can download music from my NAS drive anywere in the world. PASSWORD & am in. Also you can being to realise what albums or tracks are well record due to easy control & access to the music. STill play occassional cds, but never do without streaming again.

Oh aslo every one in the house has access to the NAS drive to listen to music on there own device or music system at anytime or watch movies. I used to be worried about the setup stuff & all that, but after the first time setup its just a joy to use.. Love it.

That is what i like in my NAS!

And you can choose to use their interface as a streamer or you can add a external streamer.

But IMO the NAS plays a central roll!

 

[gowiththeflow]

.......I just want to say though as a devils advocate thing, and again, please don't take this as having a go, that's nothing that a little computer couldn't do as well. In fact, what you have just bought is a computer in a different casing...

Indeed, I perfectly understand that. Up to now, I have been using my iMac and home wireless network, but for various reasons, I wanted another solution, preferably more local to the part of the house where my main system lives.

I have gained no new functionality over what I already have, but I needed better solutions for certain aspects of the set-up. A new NAS was in prospect and there was both the ripping requirement and need for a new CD transport to replace an aging CD player. Had I bought another computer, for e.g. a Mac Mini, that would have cost quite a large chunk of what I've spent. It would also have left me without the ripping facility and CD playback.

I could have spent around £1000 on a Mac Mini and a NAS, without factoring in a CD transport.

On balance, a combined device has provided a solution for my personal requirements. The fact that it was heavily discounted swung the decision to purchase. I would have still ended up spending a large chunk of money, had I chosen a different path.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you've said and in answer to the OP, IMHO most stand-alone Streamers, without other functionality or without being combined in another component (amp, all-in-one etc) are vastly over priced and poor VFM.

.

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

The piont of my streamer, makes me listen to more music. Also now listen to songs long forgotten as a result of now having all my songs on a seagate NAS drive. I can download music from my NAS drive anywere in the world. PASSWORD & am in. Also you begin to realise what albums or tracks are well record due to easy control & access to the music. STill play occassional cds, but never do without streaming again.

Oh aslo every one in the house has access to the NAS drive to listen to music on there own device or music system at anytime or watch movies. I used to be worried about the setup stuff & all that, but after the first time setup its just a joy to use.. Love it.

Do you use you Oppo as a video streamer? And how is the PQ?

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

.......I just want to say though as a devils advocate thing, and again, please don't take this as having a go, that's nothing that a little computer couldn't do as well. In fact, what you have just bought is a computer in a different casing...

Other than that, I agree with most of what you've said and in answer to the OP, IMHO most stand-alone Streamers, without other functionality or without being combined in another component (amp, all-in-one etc) are vastly over priced and poor VFM.

+1!

Thats the way I see it as well!

But IMO the problem is that there are alot of products out there, and the buyer sometimes is lost in the information about the offers, and you can have/achieve the same results with many different options!

PC, NAS, Raspberry Pi, streamer with HDD built in...

 

[Waxy]

No offence taken!

We all like our toys.

*biggrin*

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

I can do all that with my synology NAS...

You must be so pleased...

Sorry if my comment sound offensive...But actually two years ago i've bought a "thing" that I knew to little about, other that I could store my music in it and have the SBS (squeezebox server) running and i could turn the PC off...And now I use my NAS for multiple purposes.

 

[cheeseboy]

Indeed, I perfectly understand that. Up to now, I have been using my iMac and home wireless network, but for various reasons, I wanted another solution, preferably more local to the part of the house where my main system lives.

I have gained no new functionality over what I already have, but I needed better solutions for certain aspects of the set-up. A new NAS was in prospect and there was both the ripping requirement and need for a new CD transport to replace an aging CD player. Had I bought another computer, for e.g. a Mac Mini, that would have cost quite a large chunk of what I've spent. It would also have left me without the ripping facility and CD playback.

I could have spent around £1000 on a Mac Mini and a NAS, without factoring in a CD transport.

On balance, a combined device has provided a solution for my personal requirements. The fact that it was heavily discounted swung the decision to purchase. I would have still ended up spending a large chunk of money, had I chosen a different path.

Other than that, I agree with most of what you've said and in answer to the OP, IMHO most stand-alone Streamers, without other functionality or without being combined in another component (amp, all-in-one etc) are vastly over priced and poor VFM.

Cool, and like I say, glad you are happy with your set up

 

[wilro15]

I tried a few different options before settling on a dedicated streamer. I've had a Mac Mini connected directly to my HiFi and an Aiport Express too. They were both connected into an amplifier with a built in DAC. The functionality was good, reliable and sound decent. However I wanted to use the Mac for other non-Hifi things so I started looking at streamers.

The first streamer I tried was a Pioneer N30. The hardware is well built, great VFM and sounded good. However the iOS was terrible - not wife friendly - so it had to go back.

Then I took the plunge and bought a 2nd hand Naim ND5 XS. Build quality fantastic, great sound again and also a really good iOS app - wife friendly! The Mac Mini now runs Asset UPnP server software to provide the music to the DAC.

The ND5 XS to my ears had the best sound I've heard when compared with the Pioneer, Aiport Express and Mac Mini. I've read what other people posted that all streamers are the same and I believed them - hence the Aiport Express. In my findings, it just wasn't true.

In terms of VFM - go for the Mac Mini provided you have a DAC. But to squeeze out the extra few percent of sound quality a purpose built streamer is the way to go if you are prepared to pay for it.

 

[chebby]

So if I went with something like (for example) an Arcam A19 + airDAC, rather than an all-in-one with built-in streamer (or seperate streamer), then my Mac Mini - controlled from an iPad Mini - would be just as good as plugging everything through a dedicated streamer?

(Radio can come via the BBC iPlayer apps and Tune-In Radio Pro via Airplay as I do now. This thread is more to do with 'hardwired' streaming from Mac Mini of ALAC content.)

I don't really want to do separates again, but an integrated amp with a fairly compact (AirPlay equipped) DAC could be no more or less 'messy' than some all-in-one with an ATV3 and wall-wart hanging off it.

I mentioned the Arcam A19 and airDAC because the airDAC can get it's power directly from the A19 via an accessory power supply ouput meaning no wall wart or mains cable.

This relatively neat combination would have AirPlay built-in and cost £200 less than a UnitiQute 2 + ATV3. I just need to be sure that there is no need for a dedicated streamer (or built-in streamer) for what I need.

I am happy about the noise from the Mac Mini because there isn't any