What cartridge would you upgrade to next?

[johnmc]

Just want to ask you opinions on what would be a good upgrade to work towards next on my setup?

Basically, my setup is now. Amp: Fatman 182 valve amp. Turntable: Project Debut Carbob Esprit SB with Ortofon 2M Red. Phono Stage: Project Phono Box DS.

What would you upgrade to next? I was thinking of maybe changing the 2M Red next to something like a 2M Bronze, either just the stylus or the full cartridge. Or would that just be overkill with the Debut Carbon T/T? Or would you change to an MC cartridge?

I normally listen to Simple Minds, Radiohead, U2 type music.

Thanks,

John

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Just want to ask you opinions on what would be a good upgrade to work towards next on my setup?

Basically, my setup is now. Amp: Fatman 182 valve amp. Turntable: Project Debut Carbob Esprit SB with Ortofon 2M Red. Phono Stage: Project Phono Box DS.

What would you upgrade to next? I was thinking of maybe changing the 2M Red next to something like a 2M Bronze, either just the stylus or the full cartridge. Or would that just be overkill with the Debut Carbon T/T? Or would you change to an MC cartridge?

I normally listen to Simple Minds, Radiohead, U2 type music.

Thanks,

John

See this thread for Ortofon/Pro-Ject:

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/turntables-and-lps/probably-obvious-question-about-ortofon-2m-stylus

As for the other Q's I'm sure someone will be along soon who can assist you more than I can.

 

[johnmc]

Hi Doug, thanks for the reply. I saw that thread you linked already. I was kind of wondering if the 2M Blue was much of an upgrade over the 2M Red alright, but then again also wondering if the Bronze was overkill or a great upgrade on a Debut Carbon Esprit SB.

 

[Al ears]

I think the Project is more than capable of taking the bronze. I am however not a fan of Ortofons or the idea of simply changing the stylus as an upgrade path. Personally I would look for a better moving magnet as I also done rate hi output moving coils.

What's your budget?

 

[Deleted member 108165]

The Blue is a definte upgrade from the entry-level Red. Many on here who have moved from Red-Blue have been very happy with the results. Upgrading to a Blue would be cheaper than the Bronze route as it's a straightforward stylus swap-out, (you can mount the Bronze on the Red cart but you will probably only get a 75% Bronze net result). As I said in the other thread Red/Blue share a common cart and Bronze/Black share an upgraded common cart.

I have moved through the entire 2M range and with each there has been an overall improvement. I personally found the Bronze to be a splendid cart that maybe lives in the shadow of the illustrious 2M Black. I currently have a Black fitted to my tt but the Bronze was definitely quieter, (surface noise). I'm also currently dipping my toe in the Nagaoka pond too... I have lots of itches I need to scratch *crazy*

If you have the funds to splash-out my advice would be to go for a Bronze cartridge, (it is not overkill), and that way you will have the upgraded cart to which you can fit whatever takes your fancy from the 2M line in the future.

 

[johnmc]

What's your budget?

My budget is the price of the 2M Bronze cartridge I suppose. I guess I would rather continue to save and get the Bronze over the red or blue if it was a significant enough improvement.

You said you don't rate Ortofon to highly. What alternatives would you recommend for a similar outlay?

Thanks for the reply.

 

[johnmc]

If you have the funds to splash-out my advice would be to go for a Bronze cartridge, (it is not overkill), and that way you will have the upgraded cart to which you can fit whatever takes your fancy from the 2M line in the future.

Glad to hear the Bronze wouldn't be overkill for the Debut Carbon Esprit. Thanks for the reply.

John

 

[Al ears]

What's your budget?

My budget is the price of the 2M Bronze cartridge I suppose. I guess I would rather continue to save and get the Bronze over the red or blue if it was a significant enough improvement.

You said you don't rate Ortofon to highly. What alternatives would you recommend for a similar outlay?

Thanks for the reply.

Perhaps I should have said cheaper Ortofons.

The best you can get, in my opinion, is the Nagaoka MP200. There is just one left on Amazon at £295 if you're quick, and that's a bargain.

In addition I would also look at the Grado Reference Platinum 1.

 

[stevebrock]

I had a Nagaoka MP200 on my RP6 lovely cartridge

I order my Nagaokas from Japan (on my 3rd one now from Japan - audiokazu.com - he is great to deal with and no problems whatsoever)

My Nagaoka MP500 was £411 with £55 duty - massive saving over the UK retail price

The Nagaoka MP200 is £206 i guess you will pay approx £25 duty

BTW - the Nagaoka MP500 out performs my Benz Micro Ace H, its an incredibly enagaging musical cartridge

 

[Al ears]

I had a Nagaoka MP200 on my RP6 lovely cartridge

I order my Nagaokas from Japan (on my 3rd one now from Japan - audiokazu.com - he is great to deal with and no problems whatsoever)

My Nagaoka MP500 was £411 with £55 duty - massive saving over the UK retail price

The Nagaoka MP200 is £206 i guess you will pay approx £25 duty

BTW - the Nagaoka MP500 out performs my Benz Micro Ace H, its an incredibly enagaging musical cartridge

Good advice stevebrock, I bought my Zyx that way and, as long as you figure in duty, it's the way to go for Japanese cartridges. I paid just over half the UK rrp.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

My Nagaoka MP500 was £411 with £55 duty - massive saving over the UK retail price

Blimey that VAT charge was low! Do you have a nice friend in HMRC *biggrin*

Agree with Steve and Al if you investigate the Nagaoka path then importing from Japan is the way to go. Nagaoka are ridiculously expensive in the UK. Steve's guy is very good and the chap I dealt with on eBay was also good.

 

[stevebrock]

sadly Nagaoka put the prices up this year - but still cheaper than UK

 

[bigfish786]

but still very good carts, are the clearaudio range. I have one of these and a nagaoka, both offer very good performance, but I always seem to go back to the clearaudio.

There are plenty in your price range to try out.

 

[johnmc]

I guess the biggest problem with these is getting the chance to hear them and compare them, plus to add to that your system setup and musical preference. I wonder would Pro-ject TT's be better with Ortofon cartridges as they are designed with them in mind?

I had been looking through a few reviews or comparisons on different forums and was surprised to find that someone was unimpressed with an MP500 playing classical music by comparison to his old MP200. Perhaps the newer cartridge just needed some running in time? There seems to be a massive difference in price alright between buying from audiokuza.com and or buying in the UK. How is that possible?

I am not in a hurry to purchase right now. After getting my phono box DS recently I need to take time to get the funds together for that. I've enough other things currently on which I have to spend my money. My E36 M3 is in with the mechanic the last 2 weeks getting a lot of work done at the moment. And it's not gonna be cheap.

Finally, I guess though I have narrowed things down to 3. Obviously the Ortofon 2M Bronze, the Nagaoka MP200 and the Grado Reference Platinum 1.

Thanks agin. John

 

[stevebrock]

It is practically impossible to demo carts so you have to make an informed choice !

The nagaokas are renowned for being warm side of neutral - I find they just present the music in the way I like - so really it's very much down to personal taste. As for the user who didn't think the MP500 was very good with classical, it's just one opinion out of 100s of positive opinions.

If you find your system a little forward then try the Nag over the Ortofon, the Nag will calm it down. If you like the Ortofon sound then stick with it. Either way they are excellent cartridges and have good resale value.

Audiokazu is a one man band with no overheads - he started exporting carts for people on vinyl engine as a favour, he is a vinyl enthusiast like us so I doubt he makes much profit by sending carts to UK, he is very trusted among the vinyl engine community and I trust him 100% as I have purchased 3 carts off him now.

The MP200 is a lovely cart, technically better than the Ortofon too - Boron cantilever for starters.

you just have to take a punt on these things.

 

[johnmc]

I really appreciate the info lads. Thanks.

John

 

[daytona600]

What's your budget?

The best you can get, in my opinion, is the Nagaoka MP200. There is just one left on Amazon at £295 if you're quick, and that's a bargain.

one on gumtree for.£ 215

 

[Al ears]

What's your budget?

The best you can get, in my opinion, is the Nagaoka MP200. There is just one left on Amazon at £295 if you're quick, and that's a bargain.

one on gumtree for.£ 215

What new? Even more of a bargain.

 

[thescarletpronster]

one on gumtree for.£ 215

Probably with no possibility of any kind of come-back if it's faulty or damaged, though.

 

[johnmc]

Well, I contacted Kazuhito at Audiokuza to ask about the Nagaoka cartridges. He told me they would not work great with my turntable as there would be resonance issues. (He mentioned the MP110, MP150 and MP200)

I had asked him what he's recommend. He never mentioned the MP300 or MP500 or any of the Audio Technica cartridges.

So.......

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Well, I contacted Kazuhito at Audiokuza to ask about the Nagaoka cartridges. He told me they would not work great with my turntable as there would be resonance issues. (He mentioned the MP110, MP150 and MP200)

I had asked him what he's recommend. He never mentioned the MP300 or MP500 or any of the Audio Technica cartridges.

So.......

It'll be the Ortofon Bronze then *smile*. Even though many on here have had excellent results using the Nags all credit goes to Audiokazu for giving you his honest opinion; sign of a good, decent guy*good*

Jury is still out on my recent MP300 purchase as I've not got enough hours on it to give an honest opinion, but with my "warmish" Marantz electronics currently the Ortofon is still ahead.