Vintage Amplifier beats Yamaha a-s500?

Zax89swe

New member
Apr 19, 2011
23
0
0
Do brand new amplifiers need to burn-in??

Ordered monitor bx2 and yamaha a-s500 (my first real system) Okey so far. Received my speakers a couple of days earlier then the yama amp. I cant stand waiting for it to arrive so I hooked up my grandmas amplifier from i think 1978 Jvc jr-100 2x35w. dropped the treble eq to half as it seemed to sound linear there and it sounded amazing, very glad even thoght it was not so powerful but still enought here I actually doubt the yamaha would sound better in term of sound quality. Today the yamaha was installed and it looks very nice, a serious big transformator and "golden" components with big capacitors, compered to the yamaha the vintage Jvc got very small weak componets full of dirt all around and it wasnt smell brand new I can tell, tho it had two shy Elna 3700uf capacitors. Heres the dilemma, the Jvc sounded better in many tracks? The old Jvc can make the vocalists really sing out with pondus in the low and the whole sound is soft and still with highs and details it sound also very saturated with more insight. and the wierd thing is that the mid tends to be more neutral and dynamic just as the monitor audio box says. Not only that the yamaha sounded a little sharper even at half terble eq, it do got a "little" more details, definition in lows and of course more power. A test in sweden point out that the yamaha a-s500 is similar to marantz pm7004 in sound. Im sitting quite near the speakers and they are new but still... Advises?
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Give the new amp a couple of weeks of constant use and see if it settles in. Always make sure it's fully warmed up before a listening session.

Some of the amps from the 70s had a very different presentation from today....softer and warmer. I suspect, that after listening to the Yamaha for a few months, the JVC will sound almost "blurred".

What interconnects and speaker cable are you using?....it's possible to tone down the trebble with copper cables if this proves necessary (eg. Van Damme UP LC-OFC)

What are you using as a source?

Cno
 

Zax89swe

New member
Apr 19, 2011
23
0
0
My source is a better computer soundcard (X-fi modded with lm4562 opamp), The speaker wires is supra classic 2.5 silver.
 

FennerMachine

New member
Feb 5, 2011
83
0
0
Had similar happen to me recently, but in reverse!

Changed from a 2003 Cyrus pre amp to a pre 1990 NAD pre amp.

LOVED the new sound from NAD - for a week!

The life was sucked out of the music, went back to the Cyrus, haven't tried the NAD since.

As CnoEvil says the presentation is likely 'different'.

Give it some time, if you still don't like it maybe see if you can change the amp?
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Zax89swe said:
My source is a better computer soundcard (X-fi modded with lm4562 opamp), The speaker wires is supra classic 2.5 silver.
I'm not familiar with this cable, but if it's silver coated copper, it may be adding to the brightness.

Cno
 

plastic penguin

Well-known member
Zax89swe said:
Do brand new amplifiers need to burn-in??

Ordered monitor bx2 and yamaha a-s500 (my first real system) Okey so far. Received my speakers a couple of days earlier then the yama amp. I cant stand waiting for it to arrive so I hooked up my grandmas amplifier from i think 1978 Jvc jr-100 2x35w. dropped the treble eq to half as it seemed to sound linear there and it sounded amazing, very glad even thoght it was not so powerful but still enought here I actually doubt the yamaha would sound better in term of sound quality. Today the yamaha was installed and it looks very nice, a serious big transformator and "golden" components with big capacitors, compered to the yamaha the vintage Jvc got very small weak componets full of dirt all around and it wasnt smell brand new I can tell, tho it had two shy Elna 3700uf capacitors. Heres the dilemma, the Jvc sounded better in many tracks? The old Jvc can make the vocalists really sing out with pondus in the low and the whole sound is soft and still with highs and details it sound also very saturated with more insight. and the wierd thing is that the mid tends to be more neutral and dynamic just as the monitor audio box says. Not only that the yamaha sounded a little sharper even at half terble eq, it do got a "little" more details, definition in lows and of course more power. A test in sweden point out that the yamaha a-s500 is similar to marantz pm7004 in sound. Im sitting quite near the speakers and they are new but still... Advises?
I've had fair experience of JVC amps over the years, and they are, generally, quite warm sounding, hence the repro on vocals.

To answer your second question: Yes, new amps need a fair bit of running in. I would say give the Yamaha two weeks to hear an improvement and another fortnight for it to totally bed in. I've personally not heard the Yam, so can't comment as regards the tonal presentation.

However good both amps are... and they are; you'll know what presentation you prefer, hence why we normally urge a dem with any unfamiliar product.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
You're a victim of fashion, I'm afraid. People like bright and hard now, assuming it means detailed which it actually doesn't. They forget it makes for difficult long term listening.

Tha Yamaha will be on song after about half an hour or so, it, just as any amp, needs no running in. If you don't like it, send it back, there are warmer amps around. Alternatively give yourself a few weeks to let your ears adjust to the new sound.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Grottyash said:
You're a victim of fashion, I'm afraid. People like bright and hard now, assuming it means detailed which it actually doesn't. They forget it makes for difficult long term listening.

Tha Yamaha will be on song after about half an hour or so, it, just as any amp, needs no running in. If you don't like it, send it back, there are warmer amps around. Alternatively give yourself a few weeks to let your ears adjust to the new sound.
There is a lot of truth in what GA says here....this is why I'm always banging on about Class A (eg.Sugden), tubes (eg.Puresound), and musical speakers like Sonus Faber and Harbeth (as does he)...and the importance of a demo (preferably at home).

You have a couple of options, live with the Yamaha for a month, try some warmer cable (Van Damme) and look to room acoustics.....or change the amp and try something like the Peachtree Decco (Class A switchable) or a tube amp.

FWIW. I don't enjoy the presentation of the Yamaha or MA.

Can't be more help than that, I'm afraid.

Cno
 
T

the record spot

Guest
The current trend is towards brighter sounding equipment and has been for some time now. If that's not your thing and this new amp doesn't appeal after a few weeks, see what the shop you bought it from can do. If you can return or swap for something else maybe. Maybe Marantz's PM6003 would be worth hearing, but there probably isn't a whole lot out there that's going to sound like the old stuff.

The Leema Pulse II might be a decent option. I heard this last summer and you can pick up some of these from Sevenoaks in Brighton via mail order (or go in if you're nearby). Not a million miles off my Sansui amp and did most things extremely well. You can get these for £750 which is a good discount from the £1300 this originally went at.

EDIT|: There's some Rega Brio amps kicking around for £250 or so, which might also be worth a look. If it's just a decent little amp, that doesn't need to drive a whole bunch of other stuff and you won't be thrashing your speakers (which should also be an easy load) then the likes of NAD's 3020 or Sansui's AU-217 or 317 will be fine buys for little money while performance will outstrip your expectations for the latter two.
 

Zax89swe

New member
Apr 19, 2011
23
0
0
In soundtrack Beauty and the beast with Celine dion and Peabo Bryson the Jvc sounded perfect lifelike , the yamaha lacks it, it sounds to sharp even at lowest treble. Im starting to wonder if something is wrong. Yeah Grottyash, gonna swap to the jvc again and see, to bad it dosnt got radio so Grandma can borrow the yamaha "hilarious". In Empire of the sun - Tiger by my side it sounded so true on the jvc and vocals so real.. Im listen much to aggresive movie soundtracks aswell and the yamaha sounded fine here with some power but the Jvc got more insight and still sound a little better. Summary, With Jvc "I" could close my eyes and feel the music yamaha just dosnt :( A mystery how The yamaha achive impressions from testers. In infected mushroom there isnt so much punch as i thought it tho fly very much air (3-4m) from the bassreflex, the bass distors quite fast and the grip is lost but i think its the woofers limit rather then the amps power even tho the speakers handling rate is at 120w? think i wasnt that far from plop the left woofer in a movietrack.

Jvc 1978 (True amplifier)

Better overall sound
Much better vocals
Much softer
More insight and depth (good lows)
Similar or more width in the soundpicture.

Yamaha a-s500 ( Hi-fi amplifier)

Highly resolution lost (treble at lowest eq to handle the brightness somewhat)
Maybe a little more details (resolution)
More powerful
Little bigger clang
Clearer in few occasions
Better focus in lower bass
more sorted
Good reputation when experts put this a very good product for the money (mid priced) comparable to models like Marantz pm7004.
Remote control

Edit: When changing the loadness knob from flat against -30db, half treble eq and little drop on the bass knob it sounded less bright, Now it fits movie soundtracks but not for real songs. Now it seems that there isnt so much power, im sitting 1.5m from them close to the wall and pump max and it feels like solid 2x45-50w. Lowest setting in bass, treble, loudness and the brightness is more or less gone and it sounds better.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
the record spot said:
If it's just a decent little amp, that doesn't need to drive a whole bunch of other stuff and you won't be thrashing your speakers (which should also be an easy load) then the likes of NAD's 3020 or Sansui's AU-217 or 317 will be fine buys for little money while performance will outstrip your expectations for the latter two.
Nad 3020....blimey, that takes me back to the late 70s. Great sounding budget amp, that with it's launch, made quite a stir at the time. It re-set the bar for all other amps in it's price catagory (with a surprisingly good phono stage)....and out of that came the likes of Creek.

Sorry for the sentimental digression

Cno
 
T

the record spot

Guest
Yep, it's a great little amp. Mine is the 3020A from 1986. Much as I love it though, the Sansui is the better amp (have a 217 y'see) and the phono stage is also good. IMO obviously!
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
the record spot said:
Yep, it's a great little amp. Mine is the 3020A from 1986. Much as I love it though, the Sansui is the better amp (have a 217 y'see) and the phono stage is also good. IMO obviously!
At the time I went a little higher up the food chain and bought the A&R A60 (still have...and always preferred to the Naim Nait), with a Rega 3 (just sold).

I also had Mission 710 (I think) and then Celestion SL6 (still have)

See what you've done....you've started me off. :)

Cno
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
i think it's more a case of the jvc suiting the speakers better, MA's (in my experience) with their metal tweeters can sound fatiguing , the yamaha may not be the best amp for them, especially in an unkind acoustic setting, try the yamaha with a pair of dynaudio dm's like i have, no harshness at all, just a great realistic sound..
 

Zax89swe

New member
Apr 19, 2011
23
0
0
The yamaha a-s500 starting to sound very nice actually, changed the so called loudness to half and treble to 9clock and bass at 11clock only little brightness at some high vocals but it could be the source or little to calibrate futher. With my speaker and source these settings id write sound much better then "pure direct". Id actually got a little mad at the beginning, pumped the speakers max not burned in, hope it didnt took any damage. Mission impossible 2 - The Heist sounds liveful, rythmical and the details is extreme and "round"
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Zax89swe said:
The yamaha a-s500 starting to sound very nice actually, changed the so called loudness to half and treble to 9clock and bass at 11clock only little brightness at some high vocals but it could be the source or little to calibrate futher. With my speaker and source these settings id write sound much better then "pure direct". Id actually got a little mad at the beginning, pumped the speakers max not burned in, hope it didnt took any damage. Mission impossible 2 - The Heist sounds liveful, rythmical and the details is extreme and "round"
Great stuff...give it a week of play and report back.

Cno
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Great to hear!

Bear in mind what is happening is that you are adjusting to the new sound. Your amp was run in after the first hour
.
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Grottyash said:
Great to hear!

Bear in mind what is happening is that you are adjusting to the new sound. Your amp was run in after the first hour
.
:p

GA... your nothing, if not consistent. :bigsmile:
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yup, like to tell it as it is. There's too much nonsense in hifi
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,245
12
19,195
Wherther or not an item of hi-fi electronics takes 1 hour to warm up/run-in (what I believe) or 1 month, and whether that is due to the listener being 'conditioned' to the sound or not, doesn't really matter. So long as everyone is happy afterwards.

Except in one respect. That is when a dealer tells a customer that a brand new item will take an extended period to sound good and that period is longer than the return period.

If a dealer instructs you thus, always check what their return period is. For example, if you are told a cable or an amp takes 200 hours of playing/powered-on time to run-in, then bear in mind that could take anything from 20 days (at 10 hours a day) to 100 days (at 2 hours a day).

After 100 days the dealer can refuse a return.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Experience has taught me not to make immediate judgements about HIFI, but to live with the new system for a couple of days, only then go back to the old system. Listen to that for a few days then go back to the new one.If you're still unsure repeat the excercise.

After a few swaps between new and old a "favourite" should emerge.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
There's truth in getting used to a newer sound. There's also truth in what was said insofar as people like brighter trebles than they used to.

I bought a pair of Kef iQ7 once, and for 5 minutes they took pride of place in the listening room. Then they got boxed up and sold on eBay. I truly believe much longer and I'd have lost all my back teeth to the bright treble. Returning to my trusted 104|2 I returned to blissful softer but more accurate treble.

Old amps are softer and in my opinion more musical. But my ears are old now and need TLC after being bashed about in the early days of multi-amp car hifi systems. To me, tubes and vintage hifi takes some beating, but I did used to like titaniium dome tweeters.

BUT

I will continue to babble on about how I really feel about sound, and that is.....if it sounds good to you, it is good. If it sounds bad, change it. Everyone's opinion of good sound is different hence I will never suggest anything to anyone unless I can be sure I can help them, which is almost never.

What you need to attain is the point you begin to listen to your music and not your hifi, and if you enjoy listening to Granny's JVC, then use Granny's JVC
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Hot-And-Glowing said:
There's truth in getting used to a newer sound. There's also truth in what was said insofar as people like brighter trebles than they used to.

I bought a pair of Kef iQ7 once, and for 5 minutes they took pride of place in the listening room. Then they got boxed up and sold on eBay. I truly believe much longer and I'd have lost all my back teeth to the bright treble. Returning to my trusted 104|2 I returned to blissful softer but more accurate treble.

Old amps are softer and in my opinion more musical. But my ears are old now and need TLC after being bashed about in the early days of multi-amp car hifi systems. To me, tubes and vintage hifi takes some beating, but I did used to like titaniium dome tweeters.

BUT

I will continue to babble on about how I really feel about sound, and that is.....if it sounds good to you, it is good. If it sounds bad, change it. Everyone's opinion of good sound is different hence I will never suggest anything to anyone unless I can be sure I can help them, which is almost never.

What you need to attain is the point you begin to listen to your music and not your hifi, and if you enjoy listening to Granny's JVC, then use Granny's JVC
Welcome H & G

You speak the truth...and judging by your kit ( :love: ), you know the meaning of musicality.

Regards

Cno
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
CnoEvil said:
Welcome H & G You speak the truth...and judging by your kit ( :love: ), you know the meaning of musicality. Regards Cno
I don't know about that CnoEvil, most of my gear has been built up a bit at a time on a very low budget. I'm sure there is better out there but I could never afford it. What I have truly suits my ears and musical tastes. Today I spent a very happy 2 hours tapping my foot along to Supertramp, 10CC, Roger Waters and Pink Floyd, big smiles on my face


I need to update my signature to include the source.....which I inadvertently omitted....what a twit I am!
 

CnoEvil

New member
Aug 21, 2009
556
8
0
Hot-And-Glowing said:
CnoEvil said:
Welcome H & G You speak the truth...and judging by your kit ( :love: ), you know the meaning of musicality. Regards Cno
I don't know about that CnoEvil, most of my gear has been built up a bit at a time on a very low budget. I'm sure there is better out there but I could never afford it. What I have truly suits my ears and musical tastes. Today I spent a very happy 2 hours tapping my foot along to Supertramp, 10CC, Roger Waters and Pink Floyd, big smiles on my face


I need to update my signature to include the source.....which I inadvertently omitted....what a twit I am!
You could be me...including the taste in music, the taste in kit..and being a twit. :bigsmile:
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY

TRENDING THREADS