VdH CS122 Hybrid

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abacus

Well-known member
Sep 24, 2008
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With cables like anything audio if you believe you hear a difference than fine, that’s your perception, the problems only start to get heated when people start to claim the difference they hear is fact without providing verifiable proof. (Biological life forms are very poor at determining what is real and what they believe to be real)

As to the glass half full or half empty that was mentioned in one of the posts, then surely that is determined by whose round it is.😊

In the final analysis, if you believe the cables make the music sound better, (Real or not) then just go with it, as it’s the best way to enjoy your system. (Just don’t fall into the trap of changing for changing sake and forgetting about the music)

Bill
 
With cables like anything audio if you believe you hear a difference than fine, that’s your perception, the problems only start to get heated when people start to claim the difference they hear is fact without providing verifiable proof. (Biological life forms are very poor at determining what is real and what they believe to be real)

As to the glass half full or half empty that was mentioned in one of the posts, then surely that is determined by whose round it is.😊

In the final analysis, if you believe the cables make the music sound better, (Real or not) then just go with it, as it’s the best way to enjoy your system. (Just don’t fall into the trap of changing for changing sake and forgetting about the music)

Bill
I wish more forum members should see it that way.
 

Gray

Well-known member
I have to say that I think it's a very reasonable question to ask what it is about cables in particular that makes them divisive.
(Think hard and honestly about the specific answer to that boys).
Keep your answers to yourself though, as there's no place for 'bickering' 😆 on this forum....and I wouldn't want to see another thread get locked🔒
 

Tinman1952

Well-known member
May 19, 2021
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With cables like anything audio if you believe you hear a difference than fine, that’s your perception, the problems only start to get heated when people start to claim the difference they hear is fact without providing verifiable proof. (Biological life forms are very poor at determining what is real and what they believe to be real)

As to the glass half full or half empty that was mentioned in one of the posts, then surely that is determined by whose round it is.😊

In the final analysis, if you believe the cables make the music sound better, (Real or not) then just go with it, as it’s the best way to enjoy your system. (Just don’t fall into the trap of changing for changing sake and forgetting about the music)

Bill
An interesting post.... if slightly disingenuous.

the problems only start to get heated when people start to claim the difference they hear is fact without providing verifiable proof. (Biological life forms are very poor at determining what is real and what they believe to be real)
I would suggest the problems start when people who hear a difference but cannot readily explain it are told it cannot be true and it is just their faulty perception.
Fact and truth are not the same...,

You are correct in saying a fact is something which is 'verifiable' by definition...however 'truth' includes belief based on experience.

Ancient civilisations had no way of verifying that the air we breath contains oxygen. The science was beyond them... it was not a 'fact'
but we now know this is true.
Whether something is a 'fact' or not depends on our level of understanding of the natural world. Which is constantly changing...... 🙂
 
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Gray

Well-known member
If you want to ask it, might I suggest you start another thread - this has veered from where itt started.
With respect to you (Name deleted as it is personally identifying information)(and anyone else) I would ask that you read the original post.
He starts by saying that he has been 'listening' to a cable.....
Now if my question cannot be asked in this thread...
Never mind.
I have to accept that the question causes too many problems to even be asked.
We are left with the undeniable conclusion that the ears, equipment (or both) of those that hear cables, are in some way superior. Everyone can agree that there can be no other explanation.
 
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RoA

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
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I happily demonstrate the two cables to anyone. I live in Dorset. Ping me a mail.

I'd be surprised if I am the only one coming to the same or similar conclusions.
 
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Tinman1952

Well-known member
May 19, 2021
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With respect to you (Name deleted as it is personally identifying information)(and anyone else) I would ask that you read the original post.
He starts by saying that he has been 'listening' to a cable.....
Now if my question cannot be asked in this thread...
Never mind.
I have to accept that the question causes too many problems to even be asked.
We are left with the undeniable conclusion that the ears, equipment (or both) of those that hear cables, are in some way superior. Everyone can agree that there can be no other explanation.
I will just say that many years ago I went with my three children to a HiFi dealer to demo some different interconnects. My children were 18, 14 and 12. We ALL heard differences between the cables....(including the dealer)....children don't lie about such things. Unlike some they have no agenda.....🙂
 
D

Deleted member 108165

Guest
No one on here has an agenda, but some salesmen are very good at their job...
 
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D

Deleted member 108165

Guest
Not prepared to offer a response as this place just isn't worth getting banned from. This forum just gets worse by the day. Just lock the damned thread and be done with it.
 

RoA

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Feb 11, 2021
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Glad to see nothing ever changes.

To those of you that feel you have to 'contribute' to my thread by implying that that those of us that believe in cables attenuating sound are imagining this ... well done and gratulations for derailing this.

For all others, use your own ears. We are spending 1000's on Hifi. Spend a little more on cables. You can do this 2nd hand if necessary and loose little or nothing if you can't hear a difference but it may just balance your system a little more.
 
D

Deleted member 108165

Guest
Glad to see nothing ever changes.

To those of you that feel you have to 'contribute' to my thread by implying that that those of us that believe in cables attenuating sound are imagining this ... well done and gratulations for derailing this.

For all others, use your own ears. We are spending 1000's on Hifi. Spend a little more on cables. You can do this 2nd hand if necessary and loose little or nothing if you can't hear a difference but it may just balance your system a little more.
DM, you have been a member of this forum far longer than I yet you seem to be annoyed that this thread veered off course, but you have posted about one of the most contentious and divisive areas of this hobby – cables! So you shouldn’t really be surprised with the outcome should you? This is a public forum after all isn't it?

In your experience how much should someone spend on cables, 10% of system cost, 20%, more?

It may come as news to you but both I and Gray are fence-sitters as we have both heard differences with cables. I believe Gray’s questions were relevant but he was closed down by moderation and now appears to being blamed for the downfall of this thread, rather unfairly methinks. Shouldn't the forum offer a balanced approach?
 
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RoA

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
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DM, you have been a member of this forum far longer than I yet you seem to be annoyed that this thread veered off course, but you have posted about one of the most contentious and divisive areas of this hobby – cables! So you shouldn’t really be surprised with the outcome should you? This is a public forum after all isn't it?

In your experience how much should someone spend on cables, 10% of system cost, 20%, more?

It may come as news to you but both I and Gray are fence-sitters as we have both heard differences with cables. I believe Gray’s questions were relevant but he was closed down by moderation and now appears to being blamed for the downfall of this thread, rather unfairly methinks. Shouldn't the forum offer a balanced approach?
If you want to discuss the validity or otherwise of cable changes then I would suggest starting a thread on that.

My reason for starting this one was to suggest two alternative products, each with their own merits based on my experience.

I did not ask for anyone to tell me I am imagining this.
 
If you want to discuss the validity or otherwise of cable changes then I would suggest starting a thread on that.

My reason for starting this one was to suggest two alternative products, each with their own merits based on my experience.

I did not ask for anyone to tell me I am imagining this.
Unfortunately, owing to the nature of this forum and some of its members, that is exactly what you are likely to get.
It's great to hear people's experience with products, don't get me wrong, unfortunately some lead to more hassle than it's worth.
 
DM, you have been a member of this forum far longer than I yet you seem to be annoyed that this thread veered off course, but you have posted about one of the most contentious and divisive areas of this hobby – cables! So you shouldn’t really be surprised with the outcome should you? This is a public forum after all isn't it?

In your experience how much should someone spend on cables, 10% of system cost, 20%, more?

It may come as news to you but both I and Gray are fence-sitters as we have both heard differences with cables. I believe Gray’s questions were relevant but he was closed down by moderation and now appears to being blamed for the downfall of this thread, rather unfairly methinks. Shouldn't the forum offer a balanced approach?
point very well put but please stay clear of comments regarding moderation. You have been around long enough to know this forums rules.
 

RoA

Well-known member
Feb 11, 2021
444
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As the OP I'm happy for this to be ended if required as it is unlikely anything useful will be added.

Made my point about both the VdH CS122 Hybrid and VD 4mm Hifi UPOFC. Both recommended albeit for different systems. Both affordable.
 
D

Deleted member 108165

Guest
point very well put but please stay clear of comments regarding moderation. You have been around long enough to know this forums rules.
Yep, been around this forum too long methinks. Wishing you all the best, Al, you're a decent guy.
 

Gray

Well-known member
I did not ask for anyone to tell me I am imagining this.
...and I think you know very well that nobody told you you were.
My question (which everybody conveniently avoided) was specifically why you and others think that, specifically with cables, you hear a difference where others do not.
But never mind, it's a question that cannot be asked not even on a thread specifically about the benefits of cables.

PS: I have never and would never intend to derail any thread, as some here have suggested. Such suggestions just come across as defensive - which is totally unecessary.
 

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