Until recently, valve amplification seemed pretty pointless to me. Why would anybody want ancient technology at the heart of their hi-fi system? £1,000 and all one gets is 10watts per channel? It sounded ridiculous - until I stumbled across a certain website. This site claimed to sell valve amps that were the pinacle of high fedility audio. The sound-bite "Way way better than any solid-state amplifier from £100 to £100,000, or you're money back" was hanged at the top of every page. Now, I'm not sure, but these amps were just under £800 and they we're claiming that this ancient technology would superceed nearly every solid-state amplifier. I'm not quite sure Rotel would approve! Could this, in any way, be true? Has anybody had experience with valve amplifiers, and are they any good? If they are this good, then where is the queue?!? Are the fat-man amps this good?
Valve Amps - The Good, The Bad, The Fat.
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Apparently Fatman just repackage/reconfigure the chinese Dared amps (and they certainly bear an uncanny resemblance), which have a high reputation for excellent value - check google.
I am a great fan of valves. I had 2 valves amps before: 2 x VTL 30/30 (for bi amp op) and a Copland. My current is a valve/mosfet hybrid.
Valves work on a completely different principle to transistors. Both devices produce distortion. The type of distortion is also very different. Very basically valves generate a natural harmonic distortion which doesn't easily offend the ears. Transistors on the other hand generate a type of distortion which is unnatural (not normally found in nature).
Because of this valve amps (even the good ones) can have high (ish) distortion figures while transistors have to have low values before they become offensive.
People have said that valve microphony (the valve innards vibrating to the sound coming from the speakers) in small doses also adds to the 3d sound that valves seem to posses.
Most valve amps have coupling output transformers between the valves and the speakers. This too also has a direct input to the valve sound.
As with most things in hifi, its down to preference. I know some people who hate the warm slightly soft sound
that valves amp produce. Others like me love it.
Power is another issue with valves. Most amps being of a low value. In my experience valves amps seem to sound louder then there transistor cousins (given a watt like for like). Some of the best amps have a very low watt output (300B single ended designs for instance), these are often paired with horn loaded speakers like that of Lowthers. These speakers drivers being full range (No crossover so no crossover distortion). The horn itself being an acoustic amplifier.
see: http://melhuish.org/audio/DIYRH9.html a good exmple of a DIY horn project or
stereophile article :http://www.stereophile.com/news/10290/
One of my friends has a home made 300B single ended (mono blocks) set up running with Lowther FIDELIO speakers. The only way I can describe the sound (those classical enthusiasts among you will know what I mean) like having a live violinist in front of you (as opposed to a recording through a standard setup ). You can hear the smallest "grain" in the way the violinist plays. The horn gives speed and attack while the valve gives ambiance,smoothness and detail.
[quote user="Hughes123"]This site claimed to sell valve amps that were the pinacle of high fedility audio. The sound-bite "Way way better than any solid-state amplifier from £100 to £100,000, or you're money back"[/quote]
I am not sure I would agree with that but I would say a (a well designed) valve amp will give a good account of itself when compared to transistor amps costing 5 times as much. And also remember valve amps come in various designs, (most originating in the 1930-50s like the classic Williamson design) some are much better then others.
I heard the fatman amp at the recent what hifi show. I was impressed, but I would need to see how the compare with my amp and my friends single end amps to get a performance handle
Valves work on a completely different principle to transistors. Both devices produce distortion. The type of distortion is also very different. Very basically valves generate a natural harmonic distortion which doesn't easily offend the ears. Transistors on the other hand generate a type of distortion which is unnatural (not normally found in nature).
Because of this valve amps (even the good ones) can have high (ish) distortion figures while transistors have to have low values before they become offensive.
People have said that valve microphony (the valve innards vibrating to the sound coming from the speakers) in small doses also adds to the 3d sound that valves seem to posses.
Most valve amps have coupling output transformers between the valves and the speakers. This too also has a direct input to the valve sound.
As with most things in hifi, its down to preference. I know some people who hate the warm slightly soft sound
that valves amp produce. Others like me love it.
Power is another issue with valves. Most amps being of a low value. In my experience valves amps seem to sound louder then there transistor cousins (given a watt like for like). Some of the best amps have a very low watt output (300B single ended designs for instance), these are often paired with horn loaded speakers like that of Lowthers. These speakers drivers being full range (No crossover so no crossover distortion). The horn itself being an acoustic amplifier.
see: http://melhuish.org/audio/DIYRH9.html a good exmple of a DIY horn project or
stereophile article :http://www.stereophile.com/news/10290/
One of my friends has a home made 300B single ended (mono blocks) set up running with Lowther FIDELIO speakers. The only way I can describe the sound (those classical enthusiasts among you will know what I mean) like having a live violinist in front of you (as opposed to a recording through a standard setup ). You can hear the smallest "grain" in the way the violinist plays. The horn gives speed and attack while the valve gives ambiance,smoothness and detail.
[quote user="Hughes123"]This site claimed to sell valve amps that were the pinacle of high fedility audio. The sound-bite "Way way better than any solid-state amplifier from £100 to £100,000, or you're money back"[/quote]
I am not sure I would agree with that but I would say a (a well designed) valve amp will give a good account of itself when compared to transistor amps costing 5 times as much. And also remember valve amps come in various designs, (most originating in the 1930-50s like the classic Williamson design) some are much better then others.
I heard the fatman amp at the recent what hifi show. I was impressed, but I would need to see how the compare with my amp and my friends single end amps to get a performance handle
I have heard a few valve amps and some of them are Jaw dropping! (puresound for example) but the lack of ultimate slam and inconvinience of choosing speakers put me off own the Valve.
If I memory serve me right, Andrew used to demo Affordable Valve Company's Class A EL34 and fall in love with it, although I doubt if Mr. E playd any heavy rock on them 
Cool. Thank's for your advise! They really do appeal to me, I'm not somebody for playing music incredibly loud and shouting "POWER" all day long, If I was after a slamming, dynamic sound I would have bought some B&W 684 instead of my Wharfedales and a Rotel RCD-06 instead of my Arcam. For what I use my hi-fi for, I think a nice valve amp would suit me nicely...but I'm not sure that my Wharfedale's rated at 89db@1watt@1m would be good enough....I am not going to upgrade. I've got some old Aiwa speakers in the loft which are about 91db but they're not very impressive and the only other speakers around are some JVC 100watt ones which are like 82db! Will 89db do on a 18watt/channel fatman amp?
i used a leak stereo 20 with wharfedale lintons,87 db with no problem.valve amps are magical and the newer models have plenty of power on tap.
Read the WhatHifi review of the Fatman and see what your thoughts are. The reviewer has stated this: "The valves themselves are an interesting feature to look at, giving a bright orange glow when turned on – the front valve also features an LED strip that indicates output level".
Err, all headed cathode tubes glow orange and the front valve doesn't incorporate an LED strip. The valve itself is a level indicator. This shows how mind numbingly thick the writers are.
Err, all headed cathode tubes glow orange and the front valve doesn't incorporate an LED strip. The valve itself is a level indicator. This shows how mind numbingly thick the writers are.
You could also consider these, they are available 'build' and as kits. They also look pretty good, it's a clean, understated website, which gives me more confidence than the 'shouty one' the OP refers to. In fact, I saw it and it put me right off.
So for an reasonably affordable valve amp consider these:
http://www.world-designs.co.uk/index.htm
Or check out the (cheaper) kit from http://www.audion.co.uk/products.html (who also build other models, only available ready build, and significantly more expensive than their kit model ).
Koos
So for an reasonably affordable valve amp consider these:
http://www.world-designs.co.uk/index.htm
Or check out the (cheaper) kit from http://www.audion.co.uk/products.html (who also build other models, only available ready build, and significantly more expensive than their kit model ).
Koos
Al ears said:torikoos said:
Once again I might mention this thread is eight years old.......
I imagine the OP is sorted by now.
I guess he would be, but it was still interesting.
Infiniteloop
Well-known member
- Jul 23, 2010
- 51
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I think the claim that has been made (cheap valve-amp better than expensive SS-amp) can be true! Some properties of valve-amp sound (spacious soundstage, good mid frequencies esp. voices, fluency) are unmatched by even expensive SS-amps.
Since 2005 i am using, meanwhile my 3rd, valve-amp, and never want to go back. BUT you must, in a way, adjust to the 'softer' character of valve-sound. You WILL miss SS-slam, esp in the bass department, but considering all other parameters of the sound, a good valve-amp will be better. And then when you spend some serious money on a very good valve-amp, these differences get bigger and bigger, and the bass will become stronger but not like SS-bass, which would not fit to the rest of the valve-sound neither!
Then you need speakers that are an easy load (7 to 8 ohm over the complete freq spectrum esp. at low freq.) and, dependable on your listening volume and room size, preferable high efficiency (90 dB or more would be ideal) although lower efficiencies could work as well too.
I would say a valve-amp is more for serious listening and less suitable for parties. But the serious listening could be so involving that you will almost forget about everything else. It will not impress on 'slam' friends, but the more on the serious listeners.
Some friend who came listening to my setup, was so impressed that he even wanted to know the meaning behind the music that i played for him.
Just give it a try, you could just hit the jackpot, liking valve-sound! It could put your listening to music upside down. Good luck!
Since 2005 i am using, meanwhile my 3rd, valve-amp, and never want to go back. BUT you must, in a way, adjust to the 'softer' character of valve-sound. You WILL miss SS-slam, esp in the bass department, but considering all other parameters of the sound, a good valve-amp will be better. And then when you spend some serious money on a very good valve-amp, these differences get bigger and bigger, and the bass will become stronger but not like SS-bass, which would not fit to the rest of the valve-sound neither!
Then you need speakers that are an easy load (7 to 8 ohm over the complete freq spectrum esp. at low freq.) and, dependable on your listening volume and room size, preferable high efficiency (90 dB or more would be ideal) although lower efficiencies could work as well too.
I would say a valve-amp is more for serious listening and less suitable for parties. But the serious listening could be so involving that you will almost forget about everything else. It will not impress on 'slam' friends, but the more on the serious listeners.
Some friend who came listening to my setup, was so impressed that he even wanted to know the meaning behind the music that i played for him.
Just give it a try, you could just hit the jackpot, liking valve-sound! It could put your listening to music upside down. Good luck!
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