USB Cable Upgrade?

[admin_exported]

Got all my music on ITunes via my oldish iMac5,1 a mixture of Apple Lossless from CD and downloaded 320kbps. Just ordered the Musical Fidelity MK 2 DAC and Power Supply as noted had an upgraded USB output which I need as Mac has not got digital output. Got an old USB cable but wondering if quality will be improved by upgrading!? Any recommendations particularly from users of that particular DAC if using USB already!? Cheers!

 

[nads]

If your current cable works then spending more will not make it work any better.

Spend it on more music.

 

[Overdose]

+1

 

[quadpatch]

+1

I don't get how a digital cable can drop signal. If it was to fail you would severly notice something. Scientifically there is no explanation as to why they could be subtly different (just like HDMI). If you want to keep an open mind though you can often get these cables (Audioquest, Furutech, Chord, Nordost etc.) from a hifi shop with a 30 day money back guarantee. So you can test it for yourself with no risk.

 

[fr0g]

So you can test it for yourself with no risk.

Except for the very possible risk of falling for the con.

 

[quadpatch]

So you can test it for yourself with no risk.

Except for the very possible risk of falling for the con.

In our opinion yes, but either way he will be happy

 

[AnotherJoe]

You could argue that when using Isochronous data transfers data loss might occur. Whether the data loss would be too big for the receiving device's error correction to fix and/or hide is debatable.

Sound via USB is never going to be 100% correct - though its doubtful you would notice the difference without equipment to analyse the stream.

 

[cheeseboy]

You could argue that when using Isochronous data transfers data loss might occur. Whether the data loss would be too big for the receiving device's error correction to fix and/or hide is debatable.

Sound via USB is never going to be 100% correct - though its doubtful you would notice the difference without equipment to analyse the stream.

eh? sound doesn't travel via usb, data does....

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for comments guys!

As a bit of a hi fi novice,asked the question, as when I changed my old intercoonects on set up to QED Performance and Atlas Equator I did notice a significant increase in quality, so was wondering if the same would apply to USB!! Apparently not then, seems to be the concensus.Obviously would rather stick with my £5 lead than fork out £55 for usb lead reviewed on this site, kit will hopefully arrive in next few days so will find out!!

Got other questions about headphone amps but will stick that on relevant link!!

 

[cheeseboy]

Thanks for comments guys!

As a bit of a hi fi novice,asked the question, as when I changed my old intercoonects on set up to QED Performance and Atlas Equator I did notice a significant increase in quality, so was wondering if the same would apply to USB!! Apparently not then, seems to be the concensus.Obviously would rather stick with my £5 lead than fork out £55 for usb lead reviewed on this site, kit will hopefully arrive in next few days so will find out!!

Got other questions about headphone amps but will stick that on relevant link!!

the general ever debatable rule of thumb is that if it's an analogue signal, then you are more likely to notice difference when exchanging cables. Digital on the other hand, in theory, either works or it doesn't. Distances on digital cables also make a marked difference.

There's nothing wrong with spending a bit extra on a digital cable for one that is well made and will last longer however, but don't expect to see/hear/feel any difference.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for that! Cable that I have and propose to use is 5m long will this make a huge difference to quaity abainst a 1m for example?

 

[cheeseboy]

Thanks for that! Cable that I have and propose to use is 5m long will this make a huge difference to quaity abainst a 1m for example?

iirc 5m is getting to the limit of usb cable length. See how you get on, and if you have any doubts, you can always get a shorter one afterwards. It's usually not a case of noticing a difference in quality though - if you have a cable that's not up to job/too long/damaged etc, you'll notice drop outs in the sound, possible squelching or it just won't work.

 

[AnotherJoe]

You could argue that when using Isochronous data transfers data loss might occur. Whether the data loss would be too big for the receiving device's error correction to fix and/or hide is debatable.

Sound via USB is never going to be 100% correct - though its doubtful you would notice the difference without equipment to analyse the stream.

eh? sound doesn't travel via usb, data does....

sound as in audio data. Thats kinda implicit given the context.

 

[dragon76]

In my experience USB cables do make difference, but the differences, if any, are subtle and will not change the sound in a big way. It also depends on the overall system, and telling whether or not any upgrade will be noticeable can only be done thru home auditioning. Just buying a new USB cable blind doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Overdose]

Has anyone bought a new USB cable to make any other data transfer better?

If a USB data cable affects audio data, it will effect all data and I've never seen a problem with any other file type transferred by USB cable, in fact, I don't think I've ever had a USB cable fail.

Digital data transfer affecting audio data files and sound quality, is a non issue, barring signal drop outs or complete failure.

 

[RobinKidderminster]

All agreed then. What's next on the agenda? When shall we three meet again?

 

[chebby]

Thanks for that! Cable that I have and propose to use is 5m long will this make a huge difference to quaity abainst a 1m for example?

Nope. Just buy a 5 metre USB 2.0 cable from the likes of Belkin/Lindy/Indigo Banana/AmazonBasics etc. for about a tenner. So long as it's 'Certified USB 2.0' (and not bought in your local market for 50p) then it'll be more than capable. (USB standard applies up to - and including - 5 metres.)

A few years ago I splashed out about £15 on a 5m USB 2.0 (John Lewis own brand) for use from a laptop to a DAC and it is still in daily use at a friend's home connecting his iMac to his DacMagic/Primare i30/ATC SCM11s. It's never given any problems.

The only cables (mains/speaker/interconnect/digital) I have every had to chuck because of faults were 'bespoke' or 'boutique' cables. (Once on the grounds of safety in the case of a TM3 Connections fig 8 mains lead.)

I'd be grateful if amateurs stopped trying to make 'audiophile' cables and leave it to vast factories and machines that make all the 'standard' stuff that comes with the world's electrical/electronic equipment ready fitted or 'supplied in the box'. The kind of stuff that never crumbles or falls apart or suddenly just 'falls out' of the end of a figure-of-eight connector exposing GLUED (not soldered) connectors when unscrewed to see what happened! (And leaving the ends of an exposed mains lead flapping around until I unplugged at the other end.)

 

[RobinKidderminster]

Manufacturers state that more than 5m usb needs amplification. Interesting implications surely for loss of signal in digital cables where some argue that digital cables have no effect. PLEASE no can of worms . . . but I would be interested in the SCIENCE behind cable length wrt usb, hdmi, cat5 etc. Surely this is not a simple volt/current issue.

 

[Overdose]

Have a search for transmission line theory, I believe it's this that is the limiting factor in USB cable length. Disrupted data will lead to drop outs or crashes as opposed to degraded sound quality. The problem will manifest as a stuttering effect and will not cause colouration or any other distortion effect to the audio.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Just passing something on that I was told recently...

A manufacturer (not of the cables) was playing about with USB cables for use with their USB based product/products, and found that the Chord USB cable, when used with a printer, had a slightly larger file size showing after the transfer in comparison to a bog standard cable. I've not seen proof of this, but the rep had no reason to tell me this, other than his surprise at the outcome.

Make of that what you will

 

[idc]

Have a search for transmission line theory, I believe it's this that is the limiting factor in USB cable length. Disrupted data will lead to drop outs or crashes as opposed to degraded sound quality. The problem will manifest as a stuttering effect and will not cause colouration or any other distortion effect to the audio.

Exactly and the same has been found with HDMI cables. When they start to fail lines, pixelation and then no signal is what you get. There is nothing in relation to variances in SQ.

 

[AnotherJoe]

If a USB data cable affects audio data, it will effect all data and I've never seen a problem with any other file type transferred by USB cable, in fact, I don't think I've ever had a USB cable fail.

This is a misconception.

The potential problem with audio comes purely with the use of isochronous transfer. If the data is incorrect then then packet is dropped and there is no retry, although the receiving device may try to conceal the missing data with error correction.

Other uses of USB such as mice/keyboards/hard drives etc, use interrupt or bulk transfer modes where data is resent if not acknowledged correctly by the receiving device.

So if you had an error rate of 0.01% on a USB HD you would not notice as the errors would automatically be resent by the protocol.

However with isosynchronous and audio - if the error rate was high enough you might notice the difference. Still probably not enough to make an audiable difference though.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for your input!!

 

[Overdose]

If a USB data cable affects audio data, it will effect all data and I've never seen a problem with any other file type transferred by USB cable, in fact, I don't think I've ever had a USB cable fail.

This is a misconception.

The potential problem with audio comes purely with the use of isochronous transfer. If the data is incorrect then then packet is dropped and there is no retry, although the receiving device may try to conceal the missing data with error correction.

Other uses of USB such as mice/keyboards/hard drives etc, use interrupt or bulk transfer modes where data is resent if not acknowledged correctly by the receiving device.

So if you had an error rate of 0.01% on a USB HD you would not notice as the errors would automatically be resent by the protocol.

However with isosynchronous and audio - if the error rate was high enough you might notice the difference. Still probably not enough to make an audiable difference though.

I'm not quite sure where the misconception is, but regardless, the data loss will not be limited to audio, video can also be transmitted isochronously and probably other file types as well. The result of lost data is again, drop out and stuttering, not audio degradation by way of colouration or distortion. You point is largely moot, however, as most DACs are asynchronous, with most of the remaining DACs being adaptive mode. I don't happen to know of any isochronous DACs at all. Antelope are one example of the use of adaptive mode transfer as far as I know.

The point being, that the OP is interested in USB cable upgrades that make no difference whatsoever to the sound, not my opinion, but fact. Any differences are down to perception bias or placebo effect, but people are able to demo all they want. If someone thinks they hear a difference, that's not the same as actually hearing a difference.

Save your money people and spend it on something else that does actually have a sound, ie music.

 

[Anonymous]

Just checked one I have Lindy 2.0 High Speed USB so guess should be fine!