Upgrade from Dynaudio Excite x12??? ATC, PMC, Focus 160???

[earlxtr]

I'm so happy with the X12 that I can not imagine a speaker sounding better but that is exactly what I thought before upgrading my HK990 to a Bryston 3B SST2 and was completely wrong.

Besides the great sound produced by the Dyns, they never have any glare nor do they irritate my ears, and I want to retain the characteristic in any speaker upgrade.

My room is 10 by 13 feet (3.5m by 5m) and the furthest I can moved the speakers from the wall is 12 inches (30cm). The x12 speakers sound great in that positioning in the room with no bass bloat. I also have a Rythmik sub that is flat from 125hz down to 20hz and produces fantastic seamless tight bass.

Whatever speaker I upgrade to does not need to have deep bass due to the sub but must be able to live with the room size and positioning limitations. I would also like a speaker that has lots of detail and is very neutral in tone, not too warn but not too cold. I am looking to make a significant upgrade in the sound or not even bother.

Prices for me are in the ballpark of

ATC SCM 11 $2000

Dynaudio Focus 160 $3000

PMC Twenty 23 $4000

I've heard the older model SCM 11 speakers and loved them on the right equipment. (ATC amps) but don't know if that I really a big upgrade or more of a lateral move.

I've read lots about the PMC Twenty 23 and like the looks of them and think they would work in my room just great. They will cost me around twice what the ATC would so they would have to sound a lot better to be worth it.

Of course I am very familiar with the sound of the Dyns so going to the 160s might make sense but I am a bit concerned about how much space they need. Is 12 inches from the back wall too close? My X12 have no problem but this may be a different animal.

Has anyone compared the X12 to any of these speakers? What are your thoughts?

Thank you

Earl

Ps: please don't comment on speaker cables, line conditions or other such voodoo. Please keep comments on the subject. Thank you!!!

 

[CnoEvil]

You have chosen some nice speakers......I would add Proac and Kef R Series.

 

[Craig M.]

I used to own Dyn Focus 110s and, based on those, would say that 12 inches will be too close to the rear wall. The 110s were bassy sounding speakers and, in my room, sounded best with about 50cm behind them. The ATCs will be a better bet that close to a wall. I haven't heard the PMCs.

 

[earlxtr]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

Thank you.

 

[Craig M.]

I used to have the last version of the 19s (non-atc tweeter) paired with a ATC amp, and while they certainly have their strengths, I've heard and owned better. I'd put my current speakers in that bracket. If possible, the way forward is to home demo as many speakers as you can.

 

[CnoEvil]

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

Thank you.

IMO. "Best" is in the mind of the individual.

 

[matt49]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

No, it's utter garbage. The best construction one ccould put on that statement is that the SCM19s are the only speakers he's ever heard.

:santa:

Matt

 

[BigH]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

Thank you.

Well it maybe true but its pretty meanless unless they state what other speakers and amps they have heard. For me I could not get on with the Dyn X12s, the treble was too forward and got really annoying on jazz (cymbals). Also it does not mean much its just one persons opinion, there are LS50 fans and others that will disagree.

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm so happy with the X12 that I can not imagine a speaker sounding better but that is exactly what I thought before upgrading my HK990 to a Bryston 3B SST2 and was completely wrong.

Besides the great sound produced by the Dyns, they never have any glare nor do they irritate my ears, and I want to retain the characteristic in any speaker upgrade.

My room is 10 by 13 feet (3.5m by 5m) and the furthest I can moved the speakers from the wall is 12 inches (30cm). The x12 speakers sound great in that positioning in the room with no bass bloat. I also have a Rythmik sub that is flat from 125hz down to 20hz and produces fantastic seamless tight bass.

Whatever speaker I upgrade to does not need to have deep bass due to the sub but must be able to live with the room size and positioning limitations. I would also like a speaker that has lots of detail and is very neutral in tone, not too warn but not too cold. I am looking to make a significant upgrade in the sound or not even bother.

Prices for me are in the ballpark of

ATC SCM 11 $2000

Dynaudio Focus 160 $3000

PMC Twenty 23 $4000

I've heard the older model SCM 11 speakers and loved them on the right equipment. (ATC amps) but don't know if that I really a big upgrade or more of a lateral move.

I've read lots about the PMC Twenty 23 and like the looks of them and think they would work in my room just great. They will cost me around twice what the ATC would so they would have to sound a lot better to be worth it.

Of course I am very familiar with the sound of the Dyns so going to the 160s might make sense but I am a bit concerned about how much space they need. Is 12 inches from the back wall too close? My X12 have no problem but this may be a different animal.

Has anyone compared the X12 to any of these speakers? What are your thoughts?

Thank you

Earl

Ps: please don't comment on speaker cables, line conditions or other such voodoo. Please keep comments on the subject. Thank you!!!

May sound predictable but with your list of fine speakers, you'll need to dem a few alongside your X12s and decide which gives you the biggest upgrade. FWIW, PMC and Bryston should work well together (PMC is Bryston's UK distributor), although I can't confirm how the two sound.

 

[BigH]

FWIW, PMC and Bryston should work well together (PMC is Bryston's UK distributor), although I can't confirm how the two sound.

PP I don't think that means anything. But if you said PMC uses Bryston amps in their active speakers that may mean more.

Just like Naim is owned by Focal but apparently they don't work very well together (speakers/amps).

 

[hifikrazy]

I've listened to the new Excite range and find the treble a bit metallic and strangely not cohesive with the midrange which I found nice and natural. Compared them to the Focus 160 which was a lot more refined and "expensive sounding" in comparison, but I didn't like the bass which I thought was too loose and flabby. Also tried the new SCM11 (driven by ATC amp) which was an utter disappointment as I thought they sounded constipated, dark and depressing. My buddy gave it a 1 star rating, and that was only because they produced sound. A tad harsh I think, but there are better speakers to be had for the money.

So I would say that PMC Twenty range is the only one on your list that I would recommend. In addition to that I would consider the Focal Aria 900 range, KEF R range and the Neat Motive SX1. While some of these choices may seem like a sideways step to the X12, I do find that Dynaudios are overpriced in comparison to most English brands. The Excite range is the second lowest of their seven and I would consider to be more geared towards AV rather than music. In comparison, the Kef R is second from their top. For the same money as the Excite X34, I would say that the Kef R700 is easily superior to the X34. By the way, I did compare these 2 models as well.

 

[plastic penguin]

FWIW, PMC and Bryston should work well together (PMC is Bryston's UK distributor), although I can't confirm how the two sound.

PP I don't think that means anything. But if you said PMC uses Bryston amps in their active speakers that may mean more.

Just like Naim is owned by Focal but apparently they don't work very well together (speakers/amps).

That's why I said "should", but did start the post by emphasising the "need to dem".

When Marantz and Mordaunt Short were shoelaced together, IMO MS speakers didn't sound great with Marantz amps.

 

[gramps23]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

Thank you.

I love the ATC SCM19s, and am a great advocate of ATC's generally. Their speed, accuracy, dynamics and realism with which they are able to produce music has always done it for me. The 19's are certainly not the best speakers that I've ever heard though! Other speakers in the ATC range are far better for starters.. Any of the models with the 75mm dome midrange unit are a step up (the way it reproduces well recorded vocals is especially spellbinding), from the 35's and 40's, through the bigger reflex loaded units.

For the money and your needs, either the 19's or 11's would fit very well IMO - the 19's obviously have more bass extension, which rolls off very smoothly and goes surprisingly low in-room. The Dynaudios I also have great respect for, but have never been such a fan of PMC, though I have not had a chance to hear the model you list.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy))))

Thank you.

Hi earlxtr

Why don't you also ask the member?

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[BenLaw]

Thank you for your reply's.

I read a statement by a seemingly well versed forum member that the ATC SMC 19 are the best sounding speakers he has ever heard regardless of price. If that's true, then that makes my choice easy)))) Do the rest of you concure with that assessment?

Thank you.

I love the ATC SCM19s, and am a great advocate of ATC's generally. Their speed, accuracy, dynamics and realism with which they are able to produce music has always done it for me. The 19's are certainly not the best speakers that I've ever heard though! Other speakers in the ATC range are far better for starters.. Any of the models with the 75mm dome midrange unit are a step up (the way it reproduces well recorded vocals is especially spellbinding), from the 35's and 40's, through the bigger reflex loaded units.

For the money and your needs, either the 19's or 11's would fit very well IMO - the 19's obviously have more bass extension, which rolls off very smoothly and goes surprisingly low in-room. The Dynaudios I also have great respect for, but have never been such a fan of PMC, though I have not had a chance to hear the model you list.

Good post IMO. As the OP has a sub to reinforce the low end it seems to me the ATCs would be perfect, especially given the description of presentation the OP is after. Use of a sub also neutralises one of the Dynaudio's main advantages, its big bass.

 

[mpapo]

With that sub and your Bryston amp I would certainly try out the Kef LS50. I think they'll utterly destroy your Dyn's.

 

[earlxtr]

Thank you all for your comments!!!

Well, I guess the focus 160 are off the list due to the size of my room. To bad because I love the sound of the Dyns.

For those that don't like the X12 top end, are you trying to drive them with an arc welder??? ha ha. Dyns are revered for there smooth, rich top end. I'd say you've got to turn down the volume or your going to loose your hearing completely!! )))

From my own listening experience. ATC are very transparent and shine through whatever they are feed, including the character of the amp they are attached to. Given a good source with a good amp they sound fantastic to my ears. Bryston is probably a great choice in that regard.

I never got excited about the KEF speakers I have heard but there may have been mitigating factors (Poor amp choice, etc) and it's been a while since I auditioned them. ( I always found them overly bright. I will try them again. BTW, LS50 destroy X12???...unlikely Not saying it's not better, but destroy is a pretty strong word.

It's quite an art to be able to filter forum statements and decide who's comments to believe and who couldn't tell the difference between good sound and a barn door flapping in the wind. I'm getting better at it but it takes time.

I'm heavily leaning towards the ATC right now and it would take a pretty convicting demo to sway me to something else. As you know, I've already heard them and loved the sound they are capable of producing when paired up with the right amp.

Earl

 

[earlxtr]

Rick, your statement I quoted about the SMC 19 doesn't sound too far off in my opinion, but I have not had the luxury of auditioning too many speakers. I take it you have listened to a lot of speakers? I kind of threw your comment out there to see if I could generate some opposing opinions but I didn't get anything that swayed me your thoughts that these are one of the best. Earl

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Rick, your statement I quoted about the SMC 19 doesn't sound too far off in my opinion, but I have not had the luxury of auditioning too many speakers. I take it you have listened to a lot of speakers? I kind of threw your comment out there to see if I could generate some opposing opinions but I didn't get anything that swayed me your thoughts that these are one of the best. Earl

Hi Earl

To clarify my view on SCM19's (MK1) monitors is that while SCM19's were in production i felt that fwiw, i believe SCM19 monitors are probably the VFM passive bookshelf design speakers currently available on the market regardless of price.

Btw, i feel that ATC's new curved SCM11 monitors surpass the performance of SCM19 (MK1) monitors. Therefore i'll recommend that you should also consider the new curved SCM11 monitors or the new curved SCM19 monitors as these should be available soon.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[plastic penguin]

Rick, your statement I quoted about the SMC 19 doesn't sound too far off in my opinion, but I have not had the luxury of auditioning too many speakers. I take it you have listened to a lot of speakers? I kind of threw your comment out there to see if I could generate some opposing opinions but I didn't get anything that swayed me your thoughts that these are one of the best. Earl

Not heard the ATCs, but I've aquired PMC TB2i and have to say they are mustard. Far easier to drive and look a lot nicer... and they're cheaper.

 

[Sorreltiger]

Well, there's a turn up! Perhaps you could start a new thread on your big change, PP?

 

[mpapo]

I never got excited about the KEF speakers I have heard but there may have been mitigating factors (Poor amp choice, etc) and it's been a while since I auditioned them. ( I always found them overly bright. I will try them again. BTW, LS50 destroy X12???...unlikely Not saying it's not better, but destroy is a pretty strong word.

Based on my experience with Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MK II's and Kef LS50, then indeed yes, the Kef's are leagues ahead (less bass though). But then again, I don't know how the Contours compare with the Excites ....

 

[BigH]

I never got excited about the KEF speakers I have heard but there may have been mitigating factors (Poor amp choice, etc) and it's been a while since I auditioned them. ( I always found them overly bright. I will try them again. BTW, LS50 destroy X12???...unlikely Not saying it's not better, but destroy is a pretty strong word.

Based on my experience with Dynaudio Contour 1.3 MK II's and Kef LS50, then indeed yes, the Kef's are leagues ahead (less bass though). But then again, I don't know how the Contours compare with the Excites ....

Probably depends what amp. you use, for me the Kef LS50s were better, the X12 I found irritating. Kefs being bright I don't understand that if anything I found them the opposite whatever that is, but they do benefit from a good amp.

 

[plastic penguin]

Having heard the Contour S1.4 they need a very good amp to make the most of them, way beyond Arcam A19 or Roksan Kandy. Absolute minimum is a Naim XS...

 

[plastic penguin]

Well, there's a turn up! Perhaps you could start a new thread on your big change, PP?

No.