Underwhelmed by marantz cd6003

[entrails]

Has anyone got any comments/suggestions about my lack of interest in the cd6003 I've had for nearly 6 months now. I bought this following the fairly universal acclaim this cd player received mainly to make the most of the my cd collection I had been neglecting since getting back into vinyl a few years ago.

I've managed to get a pretty fun enjoyable system mainly consisting of a fairly basic: project debut upgraded with acylic platter and 2m blue, cambridge audio 640p phono, marantz av SR5003, mordaunt short mezzo 1's, anthony gallo due center and some rather cheap mordaunt shorts rears and a pretty ancient mission sub.

I hooked up the cd6003 with an atlas equator expecting loads of new life from my cds, instead it was all a bit well boring. Certainly there was more detail extracted out of the cds but after a few months of trying out a few cds of differing age and quality the cd6003 is slowly gathering dust while I went back to the records and having a laugh. It's since then had the final indignity of losing its attachment to the amp when I stole the equator for the turntable instead.

I've searched on the net for any disparaging comments on the cd6003 and found none. So whats going wrong? Should I try upgrading the mains supply? Should I try an attenuator? Certainly the PEAK display on the Marantz tends to go on and off like a Christmas light when playing most cds; but I don't find much difference when the internal attenuator is turned on or off. Is this to do with system matching and the cd6003 is just too well behaved and polite for my tastes? Am I just expecting too much from a basic cd player in comparison with vinyl and need to spend £600 plus instead. Have I just become too prejudiced against cds? Should I just flog it on ebay and buy more records instead? Do I ask far too many questions in succession?

Anyway I would enjoy any comments suggestions about my dilemma and/or my overuse of the quesion mark. The last paragraph reads back like the end of a Batman episode. I don't, however, recall an episode when Batman had problems with his Hi-fi system.

 

[Clare Newsome]

I'd point the finger at the AV amp, myself....

 

[Anonymous]

Although I don't rate your av amp or speakers that highly, it speaks volumes that you're enjoying the sound from the plucky little Debut more.

The Marantz CD is a bland machine and, thanks to "deals done" behind closed doors, it has reaped praise it does not deserve. Frankly anyone who thinks it offers reference performance at it's price needs to put down the Hifi "comic" and go out and listen to some gear with proper music!

Changing the AV amp, as suggested, isn't going to solve the fundamental problem that the Marantz is a dog.

As pompous old Ivor (of Linn) would say "Garbage In, Garbage out", and with that in mind I'd say start looking at say a Rotel RCD06 SE (£480), or a Rega Apollo (£475). Those will dig soo much more musicality out of those discs, but be prepared for the possibility that they may highlight the aggression your speakers are known for exhibiting when being asked to deal with a lot of information while not being contolled that well (cue my negativity against the AV amp).

Oh and for gods sake run in that Atlas interconnect for at least 100hrs before listening, as it won't help the cause if it's still "cold".

Sadly your system , like many peoples on these forums, is made up of "5 Star" products from Manufacturers who passed away years ago and are now the brand name is owned by the Chinese (the Marantz brand, as well as Denon, fell to chinese ownership about 8 years ago, and Mordaunt Short expired back in the 90s).

Marketing muscle will get you a good review in most industries today, why should the Hifi press be any different?

Sorry for the rant (A former owner of GENUINE Marantz, and MS gear from years ago!)

 

[Anonymous]

Have to disagree with the above. What Marantz don't know about CD players isn't worth knowing, it's their speciality. I've owned Marantz from cheap to expensive, and they've always been good. Haven't heard the 6003, but I'd be surprised if it was anything less than very good.

On the other hand, the "plucky little debut" is at best a slightly lower than average budget turntable. I agree with Clare, it looks like the AV amp is the problem.

P.S. I received no backhanders for my support of Marantz and denigration of Pro-ject in the above post. Honestly!!

 

[JoelSim]

Tarquinh:

Have to disagree with the above. What Marantz don't know about CD players isn't worth knowing, it's their speciality. I've owned Marantz from cheap to expensive, and they've always been good. Haven't heard the 6003, but I'd be surprised if it was anything less than very good.

On the other hand, the "plucky little debut" is at best a slightly lower than average budget turntable. I agree with Clare, it looks like the AV amp is the problem.

P.S. I received no backhanders for my support of Marantz and denigration of Pro-ject in the above post. Honestly!!

Couldn't agree more. The Debut is a budget deck and sounds like one.

 

[Andrew Everard]

thelegendarymonch:The Marantz CD is a bland machine and, thanks to "deals done" behind closed doors, it has reaped praise it does not deserve.

Explain that accusation, please.

thelegendarymonch:put down the Hifi "comic" and go out
and listen to some gear with proper music!

...Or presumably stop posting abusive and defamatory comments on Forums provided by hi-fi comics.

thelegendarymonch:The Marantz brand, as well as
Denon, fell to chinese ownership about 8 years ago

Er, no it didn't.

thelegendarymonch:Marketing muscle will get you a good review in most industries today, why should the Hifi press be any different?

Explain to me how that works then...

thelegendarymonch:Sorry for the rant

You know, given your track record of abusive posts on this site, I'm not too sure you are...

 

[Anonymous]

are you joking about running the cable in for 100 hours ?

 

[Anonymous]

i was recently using a yamaha rxv-765 for music , through my sony bluray player , then bought a nad stereo amp , huge improvement , then bought a marantz cd6003 , another big improvement .. i reckon your av amp is the problem ..

 

[Clare Newsome]

brittondave:
are you joking about running the cable in for 100 hours ?

Hard to tell in a post full of inaccuracies and groundless insinuations

 

[d_a_n1979]

In agreement; the AV amp is holding the Marantz back.

It's a good player and wouldnt get rave reviews from a lot of owners as well as hifi dealers/magazines

If you were to get yourself a decent stereo amp (i.e. Rotel RA04SE or the Marantz 6003) or even a good 2nd hand NAD C320BEE integrated amp and connected the 6003 CD player you'd soon see it's a little belter.

A stereo amp would make a world of difference to your system!

 

[Anonymous]

Entrails

I'm assuming that you are experiancing a detailed but boring CD experiance. Now for a completely different direction to solve the problem.

I own the SR6003, lovely AV amp but i found it turned my old Arcam 7SE into a detailed, clinical but soullless beast. This is how i resolved the problem:

N.B - for best results your sub needs to be able to produce sound from a LFE and speaker level connection at the same time. You gave no model number, and the new mission site is rubbish for archive products so i'm not sure about you sub.

[*]Sub must be connected using LFE and speaker level connections
[*]Set CD input on SR5003 to source direct (not pure as i feel this setting completely strips the base
[*]Go to OSD / speaker set up / manual set / speaker size
[*]Set BASS MIX to BOTH - this will mix a stereo signal through the SUB and FRONT speakers (unlike the MIX setting ??? .This setting offer the timing that speaker level connect offer using LFE connection for a more dynamic sound

It all sounds a bit made i know but i found my SR6003 very fatiguing on the ear for any length of time when i first purchased.

The Hi-Fi gurus are turning in there grave as they read this but give it a go. You will almost certainly have to change you sub settings, so write you original down just in case you want your original settings back

Vance

 

[jdp1962]

thelegendarymonch: The Marantz CD is a bland machine and, thanks to "deals done" behind closed doors, it has reaped praise it does not deserve. Frankly anyone who thinks it offers reference performance at it's price needs to put down the Hifi "comic" and go out and listen to some gear with proper music!

Changing the AV amp, as suggested, isn't going to solve the fundamental problem that the Marantz is a dog.

Oh and for gods sake run in that Atlas interconnect for at least 100hrs before listening, as it won't help the cause if it's still "cold".

Out of interest, how long, and in what conditions, did you audition the Marantz CD6003 before concluding that it is "a dog"? Which amplifier and speakers did you partner it with, which speaker cable and interconnect did you use, and how long did you run it all in for? 100 hours, perhaps?

 

[Sizzers]

The Marantz has a pretty good headphone jack, so why not hook up some half decent headphones and see if it's boring then.

If not (and I suspect it won't be), just think what it would do with a dedicated hi-fi amp and maybe a change of front speakers?

Just a thought.

 

[chebby]

thelegendarymonch:Sadly your system , like many peoples on these forums, is made up of "5 Star" products from Manufacturers who passed away years ago and are now the brand name is owned by the Chinese (the Marantz brand, as well as Denon, fell to chinese ownership about 8 years ago, and Mordaunt Short expired back in the 90s).

Denon & Marantz (among others) are owned by D&M Holdings Inc. A Japanese company formed in 2002 from a merger of Denon & Marantz. They in turn are now owned (since 2008) by Bain Capital Asia a Boston based private equity company with offices in HK Shanghai and Tokyo.

 

[matthewpiano]

Agree with Tarquinh. Marantz are masters of CD and have made some absolutely incredible players at various price points. The CD6003 is an excellent piece of kit - not as price-busting in its performance as the CD63MkII KI-Signature was but, nevertheless, one of the best players around its price point.

I also agree with Tarquinh and JoelSim about the Debut. I have a Debut III gathering dust. It is a cheap, cheaply made and cheap sounding turntable - OK for getting started with but not a patch on a good secondhand Rega Planar 2 or 3.

Get yourself a PM6003 to go with the CD player. It will work brilliantly with the Mezzos.

 

[Andrew Everard]

chebby:thelegendarymonch:Sadly your system , like many peoples on these forums, is made up of "5 Star" products from Manufacturers who passed away years ago and are now the brand name is owned by the Chinese (the Marantz brand, as well as Denon, fell to chinese ownership about 8 years ago, and Mordaunt Short expired back in the 90s).
Denon & Marantz (among others) are owned by D&M Holdings Inc. A Japanese company formed in 2002 from a merger of Denon & Marantz. They in turn are now owned (since 2008) by Bain Capital Asia a Boston based private equity company with offices in HK Shanghai and Tokyo.

And Mordaunt-Short is now of course owned by Audio Partnership, which has its HQ in London. But apart from that, spot-on, thelegendarymonch...

 

[Andrew Everard]

I'd suggest to the OP that it might be worth connecting the player to the front left and right input sockets of the Marantz receiver's 7.1-channel analogue input, rather than the CD input I assume was previously being used. The multichannel in may well have a more direct signal path through the receiver, in which case it could give a better sound.

 

[shooter]

Andrew Everard: more direct signal path through the receiver.

This is interesting Andrew, do the same rules apply with a normal stereo amp? I do recall recall reading somewhere the Tape 'ins' are a short route, is this true and could they be used for say a CD?

 

[the record spot]

brittondave:
are you joking about running the cable in for 100 hours ?

Not for the first time in the post you refer to BD, our fellow contributor was uttering less than creditworthy observations. Ahem.

Big laugh here - a troll is a troll. Don't feed them!

 

[Andrew Everard]

shooter69:This is interesting Andrew, do the same rules apply with a normal stereo amp? I do recall recall reading somewhere the Tape 'ins' are a short route, is this true and could they be used for say a CD?

In an AV receiver, most of the line-ins will go through analogue-to-digital conversion, the signal processing section, and then digital-to-analogue conversion before the signal hits the power amps; in general, the multichannel analogue inputs bypass all this and go straight to the volume control and then on to the power stages.

Of course, some AV receivers have bypass functions - Pure Direct, Source Direct, etc. - to shorten the signal path for one or all line inputs.

The point about tape ins on a stereo amp will really depend on the design of the amplifier, but yes, you can connect a CD player to the tape input and try - it's a line-in like all the others.

 

[shooter]

Thanks, i'll give it a try.

 

[entrails]

I think you are on to something Andrew. I've enjoyed reading all the replies. I've been less keen to follow some of the suggestions which made me wonder whether the solution was to replace everything but the cd6003. Particularly as the family are already questioning my sanity as I purchase more and more stuff that ends up in the living room. Although the comments do further reassure me that if I've been enjoying the vinyl on the debut so much its a nobrainer to get a Rega at some point. As it looks fairly similar to the debut I might be able to replace it under cover of darkness one night and they won't notice.

Unfortunately I haven't got a pair of quarter decent let alone half decent headphones to try the cd6003 directly.

What has puzzled me was the enjoyment I was getting from the amp from the vinyl while listening to the cd was feeling like a bit of a chore.

So I tried the 7.1 suggestion and the whole thing has dramatically turned into a bit of a hooligan but certainly an entertaining one, a kind of Keith Allen I guess. I've spent a few hours listening to cds without repeatedly track surfing or picking up some reading material so thats a move in the right direction.

I don't entirely understand what is going on as I had tried the source and pure direct settings quite a few times without much success with the cds and this seems very different; a sort of "reggae reggae" source direct. Also I haven't a clue why the vinyl is really pleasing on the ear with the Pro logic music setting leading to the other speakers making up for the Mezzo 1's limitations when the same setting using the cd6003 dissipates a lot the energy and dynamics of the music.

 

[Sizzers]

As repeatedly stated, change the amp.

Bonus will also be your Debut will sound even better. Remember, 7.1 in to 2 doesn't go (as you're experiencing right now).

 

[entrails]

I was initially fairly confused by all the recommended amp replacements being dedicated hifi amps thinking that due to space constrictions I would have to replace the a/v amp. Knowing that to get an a/v amp with a good musical recommendation would cost lots of cash that would require a lot of diplomacy to say the least. From looking at other threads I am guessing most of you are suggesting the a/v amp preouts to stereo amp solution. I've probably got the shelf space so could look into this in the future.

The stereo amp would have to be place to one side probably meaning replacing the front speaker connections. I've heard uneven lengths of speaker cable are bad news so would probably have to buy quite an extensive extra amount for one side despite it being close to the speaker or is the importance of equal lengths exaggerated?

 

[Anonymous]

Unequal lengths are fine. Impossible to hear the difference unless you happen to be a superior being from another planet.