TV specs....
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so higher the contrast r and hz the better....?
had a tv through currys, blew up, now looking for a plasma from this lot....
http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@2049610770.1250284099@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfadeidfeiffmcflgceggdhhmdfho.0&page=ProductList&category_oid=-34812&fm=11&sm=0&tm=2&use_category=true
had a tv through currys, blew up, now looking for a plasma from this lot....
http://www.currys.co.uk/martprd/store/cur_page.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@2049610770.1250284099@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccfadeidfeiffmcflgceggdhhmdfho.0&page=ProductList&category_oid=-34812&fm=11&sm=0&tm=2&use_category=true
No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
matthewpiano
Well-known member
- Nov 23, 2007
- 494
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- 19,270
aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
Completey agree with this. Specs are mostly about playing a numbers game but often tell you very little about the performance of a TV, particularly as different manufacturers often use them in different ways.
Contrast ratio is the biggest BS of all because it can be measured in many different ways. Consequently there is no real chance of making a meaningful comparison.
The ONLY way to buy a TV is with your own eyes and ears, and the best way to do this is to leave the internet sellers behind and visit a proper bricks and mortar shop. You'll pay slightly more but if you go to a good retailer/dealer you'll get the chance to view the TV(s) you are interested in with a variety of sources and on a variety of settings and you'll also get proper back-up and support for any questions you may have or in the unlikely event of any issues later on.
Completey agree with this. Specs are mostly about playing a numbers game but often tell you very little about the performance of a TV, particularly as different manufacturers often use them in different ways.
Contrast ratio is the biggest BS of all because it can be measured in many different ways. Consequently there is no real chance of making a meaningful comparison.
The ONLY way to buy a TV is with your own eyes and ears, and the best way to do this is to leave the internet sellers behind and visit a proper bricks and mortar shop. You'll pay slightly more but if you go to a good retailer/dealer you'll get the chance to view the TV(s) you are interested in with a variety of sources and on a variety of settings and you'll also get proper back-up and support for any questions you may have or in the unlikely event of any issues later on.
aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
matthewpiano:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
Completey agree with this. Specs are mostly about playing a numbers game but often tell you very little about the performance of a TV, particularly as different manufacturers often use them in different ways.
Contrast ratio is the biggest BS of all because it can be measured in many different ways. Consequently there is no real chance of making a meaningful comparison.
The ONLY way to buy a TV is with your own eyes and ears, and the best way to do this is to leave the internet sellers behind and visit a proper bricks and mortar shop. You'll pay slightly more but if you go to a good retailer/dealer you'll get the chance to view the TV(s) you are interested in with a variety of sources and on a variety of settings and you'll also get proper back-up and support for any questions you may have or in the unlikely event of any issues later on.er , would those issues include backlight bleed ?? because at the moment , if you buy a sony , that is likely , the problem is sony dont see it as an issue ( er , understandably ) , so with all due respect , why not buy online and save money , and in the unlikely event of any ( not backlight bleed ) issues , you can still send it back ..
Completey agree with this. Specs are mostly about playing a numbers game but often tell you very little about the performance of a TV, particularly as different manufacturers often use them in different ways.
Contrast ratio is the biggest BS of all because it can be measured in many different ways. Consequently there is no real chance of making a meaningful comparison.
The ONLY way to buy a TV is with your own eyes and ears, and the best way to do this is to leave the internet sellers behind and visit a proper bricks and mortar shop. You'll pay slightly more but if you go to a good retailer/dealer you'll get the chance to view the TV(s) you are interested in with a variety of sources and on a variety of settings and you'll also get proper back-up and support for any questions you may have or in the unlikely event of any issues later on.er , would those issues include backlight bleed ?? because at the moment , if you buy a sony , that is likely , the problem is sony dont see it as an issue ( er , understandably ) , so with all due respect , why not buy online and save money , and in the unlikely event of any ( not backlight bleed ) issues , you can still send it back ..
this is true...
EDITED BY MODS for House Rules
i went to comet and it said mega contrast ratio.... Wats all that about?!?
personally i went to a see a couple of tvs plasma and lcd next to each other & i was shocked to see that the lcd had a brighter more colourful image than the plasma>>
an all these guys say plasma is better!!! what a load of rubbish
EDITED BY MODS for House Rules
i went to comet and it said mega contrast ratio.... Wats all that about?!?
personally i went to a see a couple of tvs plasma and lcd next to each other & i was shocked to see that the lcd had a brighter more colourful image than the plasma>>
an all these guys say plasma is better!!! what a load of rubbish
tvspecv:
this is true...
EDITED BY MODS for House Rules
i went to comet and it said mega contrast ratio.... Wats all that about?!?
personally i went to a see a couple of tvs plasma and lcd next to each other & i was shocked to see that the lcd had a brighter more colourful image than the plasma>>
an all these guys say plasma is better!!! what a load of rubbish
Comet, currys etc never EVER have their tvs setup correctly. Whoever said to test tvs in their stores is talking rubbish
this is true...
EDITED BY MODS for House Rules
i went to comet and it said mega contrast ratio.... Wats all that about?!?
personally i went to a see a couple of tvs plasma and lcd next to each other & i was shocked to see that the lcd had a brighter more colourful image than the plasma>>
an all these guys say plasma is better!!! what a load of rubbish
Comet, currys etc never EVER have their tvs setup correctly. Whoever said to test tvs in their stores is talking rubbish
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
Thanks for feedback, had a talk about tvs today in local dealer, he agreed contrast ratio is pure nonsense.
The Hz tho represents how many pictures the tv deals with per second, the latest 600hz plasmas are meant to be good on models 47inch and upward, its ok on smaller ones but on large screens its a good thing (app..)
As long as its full hd picture and a good number of hz shouldnt go wrong.
still got to decide like ......
The Hz tho represents how many pictures the tv deals with per second, the latest 600hz plasmas are meant to be good on models 47inch and upward, its ok on smaller ones but on large screens its a good thing (app..)
As long as its full hd picture and a good number of hz shouldnt go wrong.
still got to decide like ......
aliEnRIK:
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
46pz8b , 46g10 mine is the first one , 100hz , and it is obviously not better than the g10 ..
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
46pz8b , 46g10 mine is the first one , 100hz , and it is obviously not better than the g10 ..
I have the panasonic v10 plasma. The spec info on their website for my tv says that it is 100hz. The 600hz refers to IFC Sub field drive (whatever that is - refresh rate of the panel?). Quite frankly, looking at a series of numbers expecting increased performance on this basis without viewing the set first is a bit misguided in my opinion.
My tv has 'infinite contrast' 2.000.000:1 but it also says 40,000:1 (one is dynamic contrast - don't know what this means) whereas the sony lcds have between 80,000-100,000:1 - I doubt the Sony's are twice as good in the contrast department. I'm not sure, but I would guess that the pioneer kuros' "specs" aren't as high, but I also know having viewed them side by side that the pioneers offer better picture.
Could anyone on here explain the difference between the 100hz motionflow etc and the 600hz on the panasonics?
Thanks
My tv has 'infinite contrast' 2.000.000:1 but it also says 40,000:1 (one is dynamic contrast - don't know what this means) whereas the sony lcds have between 80,000-100,000:1 - I doubt the Sony's are twice as good in the contrast department. I'm not sure, but I would guess that the pioneer kuros' "specs" aren't as high, but I also know having viewed them side by side that the pioneers offer better picture.
Could anyone on here explain the difference between the 100hz motionflow etc and the 600hz on the panasonics?
Thanks
Just because a lcd has a brigher and more colourful image doesn't automatically make a plasma rubbish.Plasma's generally have better blacks, more grey scale graduations and lower image delay which make them more suitable for gaming.
It is true to say that stores don't have their TV's set up to the D65 industry standard. But seeing as there is no other way of testing TV's out we're rather stuck with it.
And there IS some method in the madness of setting ALL Tv's to dynamic as at least they'll all be CONSISTENTLY displayed at their most brightest, saturated and sharpest image.
My advice is to see the same tv's in many different stores, that way you'll see the TV display the maximum amount of source material, and after a few visits TV's will start to show consistent trends and biases towards certain picture artefacts.
Given that there are pros and cons to plamas and lcd's, and different models of TV do certain things well, and others not so good, I wouldn't trust any salesman that says "brand x is rubbish"
It is true to say that stores don't have their TV's set up to the D65 industry standard. But seeing as there is no other way of testing TV's out we're rather stuck with it.
And there IS some method in the madness of setting ALL Tv's to dynamic as at least they'll all be CONSISTENTLY displayed at their most brightest, saturated and sharpest image.
My advice is to see the same tv's in many different stores, that way you'll see the TV display the maximum amount of source material, and after a few visits TV's will start to show consistent trends and biases towards certain picture artefacts.
Given that there are pros and cons to plamas and lcd's, and different models of TV do certain things well, and others not so good, I wouldn't trust any salesman that says "brand x is rubbish"
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
46pz8b , 46g10 mine is the first one , 100hz , and it is obviously not better than the g10 ..
How is it 'obviously' not better?
maxflinn:aliEnRIK:No. Specs are BS so a higher spec does NOT mean for sure that the quality is any better (600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz)
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) i have a panny 46inch plasma from last years range , its 100hz , so that is a better screen than the latest 600hz pannys ?? er , u sure ??
Give me model numbers of both and ill go see
46pz8b , 46g10 mine is the first one , 100hz , and it is obviously not better than the g10 ..
How is it 'obviously' not better?
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) can u elaborate on that eric ?? in laymans terms ? ta...
maxflinn:
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) can u elaborate on that eric ?? in laymans terms ? ta...
You get 2 tvs by the same manufacturer costing the same (ish) the 100Hz will almost certainly look better
You get what you pay for so paying for 600Hz is detrimental to the rest of the tv. TRUE 600Hz processing also takes a LOT of processing power and to be done correctly costs a lot. By 'done correctly' I mean it needs to fill in each gap correctly (So a 50Hz signal would need another 10 gaps to fill). If done poorly then it will look worse than a 100Hz screen due to the 'error artifcats' in the picture. Ive no problem with 600Hz processing as such. But until they can do it cheap enough I'd personally avoid them.
The ONLY reason they even exist is to con people into the old 'specs' argument (At the moment at least). "My tv is 1 million Hz so it MUST be better than your 100Hz"
(600 Hz screens for example tend to be worse than 100Hz) can u elaborate on that eric ?? in laymans terms ? ta...
You get 2 tvs by the same manufacturer costing the same (ish) the 100Hz will almost certainly look better
You get what you pay for so paying for 600Hz is detrimental to the rest of the tv. TRUE 600Hz processing also takes a LOT of processing power and to be done correctly costs a lot. By 'done correctly' I mean it needs to fill in each gap correctly (So a 50Hz signal would need another 10 gaps to fill). If done poorly then it will look worse than a 100Hz screen due to the 'error artifcats' in the picture. Ive no problem with 600Hz processing as such. But until they can do it cheap enough I'd personally avoid them.
The ONLY reason they even exist is to con people into the old 'specs' argument (At the moment at least). "My tv is 1 million Hz so it MUST be better than your 100Hz"
the 600hz are 100hz , at least when it comes to refresh rate , the sub field drive is 600hz , im not sure what that is , but panasonic have cleverly made it appear to mean refresh rate , i guess when people are buying a tv it can be hard work , they often do go by numbers , and the makers know this ...the 600hz pannys are the best pannys though , not cos of the numbers , they are just the best pannys , so to say 600hz are often worse than 100hz was a bit baffling for me ...
maxflinn:the 600hz are 100hz , at least when it comes to refresh rate , the sub field drive is 600hz , im not sure what that is , but panasonic have cleverly made it appear to mean refresh rate , i guess when people are buying a tv it can be hard work , they often do go by numbers , and the makers know this ...the 600hz pannys are the best pannys though , not cos of the numbers , they are just the best pannys , so to say 600hz are often worse than 100hz was a bit baffling for me ...
If what you say is true and the 600Hz pans are really 100 then it stinks of utter BS to me (And I did say 'TRUE' 600Hz)
Doesnt it to you?
Id take a stab and guess it means that when you have some 'jumping' scenery they split it up into the 600Hz to smooth it out and play it back in 100Hz?
If what you say is true and the 600Hz pans are really 100 then it stinks of utter BS to me (And I did say 'TRUE' 600Hz)
Doesnt it to you?
Id take a stab and guess it means that when you have some 'jumping' scenery they split it up into the 600Hz to smooth it out and play it back in 100Hz?
Ive found this for LGs ~
" Sub-Field Driving works with a 50Hz source (50 frames per second - UK
Broadcast). The TV then splits each frame into 12 separate sub-fields
and shows them individually on the screen. Therefore 12 sub-fields per
frame in a 50 frames cycle creates 600 frames per second (50 x 12 = 600)"
" Sub-Field Driving works with a 50Hz source (50 frames per second - UK
Broadcast). The TV then splits each frame into 12 separate sub-fields
and shows them individually on the screen. Therefore 12 sub-fields per
frame in a 50 frames cycle creates 600 frames per second (50 x 12 = 600)"
And this for a general explanation ~
"This is indeed pure marketing, they needed a large number - they've got
it. That this number does not mean anything - doesn't matter, nobody
cares. And indeed - we see that everyone is confused now.
Ok, here is how it works:
Plasma screen can indeed only have it's pixels on or off. There is no half-on or something like this.
So, how are different shades being generated?
The answer is simple - for every field, ANY plasma is using a number of
subfields. In earlier days e.g. 300 subfields, which made 5 subfields
per field (60Hz operation mode).
So, how is the 'luminance' being genearted out of those subfields?
This is done by differnt algorithms, every manufacturer is using their
own. Common thing between them is - it is using a modified
pulse-width-modulation. Modified, becaue a plasma cell can only be
activated once during the sequence of one field.
Assuming 600 Subfields and 100Hz feed, we have 6 Subfields per field.
So, what are valid subfield sequences for e.g. a green sub-pixel?
1-0-1-0-1-0 is not a valid sequence - since, as I mentioned, a cell can be only activated once.
0-0-1-1-1-0 is a valid sequence. Here the cell is activated once at a subfield #3 and is being de-activated at a subfiled #6
How exactly this activatinon/deactivation is being implemented with
every panel, e.g. in the middle of the subfiled sequence, at beginning
or dynamically, is intellectual property of manufacturers and is not
being disclosed.
There are a number of patents existing on this subject matter. The
sequence of the subfield activation is important for a level of
artifacts like False Contouring or flicker with plasma screens.
As such, number of subfields (e.g. 600) doesn't tell anything. The only
important thing is - how many subfields per field are being used.
For example 480 Subfields, but with a 60Hz refresh, is better (8
subfields per field) than 600 Subfields at 100Hz (only 6 subfields per
field).
So please just try to ignore those irritating numbers born in the
depths of the marketing department, they do not have anything to do
with how the picture or movement look like on the screen."
"This is indeed pure marketing, they needed a large number - they've got
it. That this number does not mean anything - doesn't matter, nobody
cares. And indeed - we see that everyone is confused now.
Ok, here is how it works:
Plasma screen can indeed only have it's pixels on or off. There is no half-on or something like this.
So, how are different shades being generated?
The answer is simple - for every field, ANY plasma is using a number of
subfields. In earlier days e.g. 300 subfields, which made 5 subfields
per field (60Hz operation mode).
So, how is the 'luminance' being genearted out of those subfields?
This is done by differnt algorithms, every manufacturer is using their
own. Common thing between them is - it is using a modified
pulse-width-modulation. Modified, becaue a plasma cell can only be
activated once during the sequence of one field.
Assuming 600 Subfields and 100Hz feed, we have 6 Subfields per field.
So, what are valid subfield sequences for e.g. a green sub-pixel?
1-0-1-0-1-0 is not a valid sequence - since, as I mentioned, a cell can be only activated once.
0-0-1-1-1-0 is a valid sequence. Here the cell is activated once at a subfield #3 and is being de-activated at a subfiled #6
How exactly this activatinon/deactivation is being implemented with
every panel, e.g. in the middle of the subfiled sequence, at beginning
or dynamically, is intellectual property of manufacturers and is not
being disclosed.
There are a number of patents existing on this subject matter. The
sequence of the subfield activation is important for a level of
artifacts like False Contouring or flicker with plasma screens.
As such, number of subfields (e.g. 600) doesn't tell anything. The only
important thing is - how many subfields per field are being used.
For example 480 Subfields, but with a 60Hz refresh, is better (8
subfields per field) than 600 Subfields at 100Hz (only 6 subfields per
field).
So please just try to ignore those irritating numbers born in the
depths of the marketing department, they do not have anything to do
with how the picture or movement look like on the screen."
i have to admit im no techie , that bit of info certainly does sound like it applies to refresh rate though , one would assume panasonics would work in the same way , im more confused now...
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