Trying to improve my room acoustics

krish123

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Hi guys, as the title suggests im looking to improve my room acoustics but not really in the position to use panels etc. however i was wondering whether there are any other tricks or tips to improve RA?

i came across subwoofer isolation, which would be a viable option and believe i could get some benefit from as my listening room has wood floor. the bass in my system seems to lack weight and punch despite the subwoofer being actually pretty good (monitor audio rsw-12). do u guys think the isolation pad would help this?

iv also seen bass traps but would only be in a position to place one in one corner, would it be worth doing this? it would be behind my hifi rack as it is.

the mid and high frequency of my system can be pretty bright id like to tame this better is possible. iv put pieces of cloth inside my speaker enclosure just behind the metal tweeter which helped things a bit. i also but square pieces of carpet under each of my floorstanders, again helped slighty.

if you can suggest other little tips i would be very grateful.
 

krish123

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hi m8, i can get proper pictures to u next wk as im not at home atm. i have a very good system however dont seem to be getting the results i should. so thinking now it is probably dues to room acoustics.
 

Overdose

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krish123 said:
i came across subwoofer isolation, which would be a viable option and believe i could get some benefit from as my listening room has wood floor. the bass in my system seems to lack weight and punch despite the subwoofer being actually pretty good (monitor audio rsw-12). do u guys think the isolation pad would help this?

Isolating the sub from the floor will not solve the issue of perceived lack of bass. It sounds like the sub has not been integrated correctly, either by setting up the cutoff frequency or positioning.
 

steve_1979

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krish123 said:
Hi guys, as the title suggests im looking to improve my room acoustics but not really in the position to use panels etc. however i was wondering whether there are any other tricks or tips to improve RA?

Try to break up the shape of any large flat surfaces such as walls. This can be done by hanging framed pictures on the walls or by adding furnature such as bookshelves to your room.
 

DocG

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steve_1979 said:
Try to break up the shape of any large flat surfaces such as walls. This can be done by hanging framed pictures on the walls or by adding furnature such as bookshelves to your room.

That's right. Try to find the 'first reflection points'. You could ask someone to hold a mirror to the walls and floor; the position of the mirror that lets you see the speaker from your listening seat, is a first reflection point. That's where you want a carpet, picture, ...

Second important issue is positioning (speakers vs front wall, speakers vs side walls, distance from speakers to front vs side walls, listening seat vs back wall). Moving things 10-20 cm can sometimes make a whole lot of a difference.

As for the lack of bass, could also be a phase issue. Can you switch the phase on your sub? If not, try switching the wires.
 

drummerman

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A very interesting article interviewing Ken Ishiwata of Marantz fame, visited their Eindhoven HQ and had a look at the main listening room, designed by himself.

Asked where he thought many audiophiles go wrong he stated that often, rooms are over-damped rather than the other way round, which, in his opinion, robs music of life.

Interesting and perhaps worth remembering ...

regards
 

krish123

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thanks for the replies guys. my sub is connected via a splitter on my preamp. as for the cut off wen i adjust the knob it doesnt seem to have any difference. my sub does have a phase of either 0 or 180, currently set to 0. What cut off freq should i have the sub set to?
 

Overdose

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krish123 said:
thanks for the replies guys. my sub is connected via a splitter on my preamp. as for the cut off wen i adjust the knob it doesnt seem to have any difference. my sub does have a phase of either 0 or 180, currently set to 0. What cut off freq should i have the sub set to?

Setting up a sub can be tricky. Even when getting the settings right, if the position is wrong, you could well end up in a null point where lower frequencies are much less audible.

There are some good websites with sub integration setup. You will need some test tones, usually linked to from the same websites and a willing volunteer to adjust the settings as you sit and listen.

I'll have a dig and see what I used when I set mine up.

EDIT: Found them. Read the two articles/threads below. They should help a bit. It gets a bit technical, but there's no simple fix.

http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/article_560.shtml and [LINK REMOVED - house rules]
 

Native_bon

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I dn't think the problem is with your setup. From what u a have said so far it seems its your room. I have a room with wooden floors before & had the same very problems. It may not be what u want to hear. ur first place of call should be the use of basstraps.
 

Overdose

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Native_bon said:
I dn't think the problem is with your setup. From what u a have said so far it seems its your room. I have a room with wooden floors before & had the same very problems. It may not be what u want to hear. ur first place of call should be the use of basstraps.

Given the lack of any meaningful bass in the first place, I don't think that 'trapping' what little bass he has, is a good idea, do you?

The OP has a capable sub and if he is not getting a noticeable step up in the lower frequencies, two possibilities exist.

1. The sub is not correctly set up or integrated, including positioning

2. There is a problem with the sub.

Room treatment for reducing bass resonances can be added when the OP has some base to resonate. ;)
 

RobinKidderminster

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Sorry overdose but bass traps dont simply remove bass. I humbly suggest that research will show that by removing reflected low frequencies will remove the doubling and cancelling effect of concurrent waveforms leading to a flatter response. I think the physics makes a good read. Trust me that bass traps can give solid bass where there was little and reduce boom for clarity throughout the bass & mid frequencies
 

richardw42

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Think Overdoses points are worth investigating. I have the RSW12 and it works well.

Please educate me. How can bass traps create bass that's not already there ? The OP DIDN'T SPECIFY UNCONTROLLED BASS BUT SIMPLY THR lack of.

Ps. Sorry about this post, site or iPad playing up.
 

Overdose

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RobinKidderminster said:
Sorry overdose but bass traps dont simply remove bass. I humbly suggest that research will show that by removing reflected low frequencies will remove the doubling and cancelling effect of concurrent waveforms leading to a flatter response. I think the physics makes a good read. Trust me that bass traps can give solid bass where there was little and reduce boom for clarity throughout the bass & mid frequencies

I know what bass traps do and how they work, but the OP has no meaningful bass. Before starting out on a fit of spending willy and nilly on various room treatment solutions, it is eminently sensible to first confirm the correct positioning and setup of existing equipment. Once that is found to be satisfactory room treatment can be added if required. Plenty of people have perfectly adequate sub performance without dotting acoustic panels about the place.

Why does the first solution offered by most seem to be to spend more money?
 

RobinKidderminster

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Sorry guys not intending to debate the phsics. Take a look. Compare noise cancelling headphones which ADD noise to cancel it. Take a bath! Easy to cancel a water wave with another. I have used traps to allow bass to form where there was a void created by wave cancellation. Physics not magic. And cost? My suggestions are based on £20 for rockwool as an experiment.

Cheers
 

Overdose

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RobinKidderminster said:
Sorry guys not intending to debate the phsics. Take a look. Compare noise cancelling headphones which ADD noise to cancel it. Take a bath! Easy to cancel a water wave with another. I have used traps to allow bass to form where there was a void created by wave cancellation. Physics not magic. And cost? My suggestions are based on £20 for rockwool as an experiment.

Cheers

I get what you're saying, understand the physics and all that, but I respectfully suggest that you have missed the point. Without first trying to correctly integrate the sub in the first instance, you will have no idea about whether or not to add acoustic panels. The OPs wooden flooring is more likely than not to increase any bass booming and create an overblown and unpleasant bass reproduction, but the OP has reported lack of bass. Adding room treatment to correct resonance and cancellation/reinforcement is pointless if it does not exist in the first place and that will be established during setup.

It is not always possible or practical to add room treatment and the OP has already stated that he has little option for acoustic panels and bass traps, so that leads us back to basics and setup.
 

RobinKidderminster

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OP states 'lack of weight and punch' not 'no meaningful bass'. Not sure who is suggesting throwing lots of money at it. I think the OP is aaking for suggestions to experiment with. I personally experimented with rockwool traps and I was amazed how little I needed to spend to both remove an area of bass boom, all be it away from the listening spot and to give solid bass in one position where there existed a bass 'hole'. Good luck and hopefully you will report back with some successful experimental results.

Cheers
 

Overdose

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RobinKidderminster said:
OP states 'lack of weight and punch' not 'no meaningful bass'.

And how do the two differ? I see them as being one and the same.

Don't over complicate what could be a simple issue, stick to the basics and first ensure correct setup.
 

RobinKidderminster

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Do tell us what kit you have & room/speaker layout. Are u using an auto setup? Normally sub xover is set to max whilst the receiver determines xover frequency. Does all sound ok without the sub & can u hear anything from the sub. Yr original post suggests room treatment & maybe we assumed that all is setup correctly. Most of us are limited with positioning and certainly room treatment is important but as already mentioned you need to make sure the setup is as good as possible first. I think room treatment is most useful where bass & midrange is muddled and peaks and troughs are evident in bass within the room due to reinforcement & cancellation. I am sure other can offer suggestions with more information. Pics help too.

Good luck
 

Native_bon

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Overdose said:
Native_bon said:
I dn't think the problem is with your setup. From what u a have said so far it seems its your room. I have a room with wooden floors before & had the same very problems. It may not be what u want to hear. ur first place of call should be the use of basstraps.

Given the lack of any meaningful bass in the first place, I don't think that 'trapping' what little bass he has, is a good idea, do you?

The OP has a capable sub and if he is not getting a noticeable step up in the lower frequencies, two possibilities exist.

1. The sub is not correctly set up or integrated, including positioning

2. There is a problem with the sub.

Room treatment for reducing bass resonances can be added when the OP has some base to resonate. ;)

Basstraps are not just for removing bass. Some rooms can cancel out bass. Bass traps will also help with this process if placed correctly. Subwoofers or bass is ominidirectional. It could almost be placed any were in the room & still hear the bass if the room is not problematic.
 

RobinKidderminster

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Thanks native for some support :) Are u using bass traps too? I guess the word 'trap' leads to misunderstanding. The physics is easily understood but I recon WHF miss a trick in not making much mention.

Cheers
 

True Blue

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Difficult to advise without an equipment list or photographs of your setup / room. However a few basics may help.

1. Ensure that all speakers are "in phase" so as not to cancel out any waveforms

2. Hang curtains across glass, remove mirrors in your room and possible to do so.

3. Put a rug between you and your speakers

4. Hang some nice canvas pictures on the walls and place acoustic foam in the frames behind them

5. If your room hasnt got coving put some in

6. Make sure theres enough space between your listening position and the speakers to allow the bass waveforms to develop.

7. reduce the toe in on your speakers (tames brightness)

8. Decouple your speakers and sub from the floor. easy to do three granite chopping boards from Tesco etc, then simply sit your spikes on them

9. Ensure all speakers are level and spikes done up tightly. Scrape the paint off the contact surface for the nuts to ensure proper contact.

10. Put a radiator cover on (nice place to put your cuppa)

hope that helps

All these little things will assist with the overall sound of the system, and are relatively cheap.
 

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