Totally Confused Newbie

[roadrunner]

I do not understand what kit I need and what is a good kit to buy. I've decided to move away from CD's and put together a computer/NAS system from scratch. I think that I need the following:

Hard Drive Storage (Computer or NAS)

Streamer

DAC

Pre-Amp/Power Amp

Speakers

I understand there are different combinations of these components, but is this what I need? I really wish there was a primer for newbies like me!

If this is correct, excluding the kit connections, what kit do you recommend or I need to add if my budget is GBP 2K? What if I spurged and set the budget at GBP 5K?

Thank you for your help.

 

[stavvy]

You could buy all the components you have listed or you could reduce the number of components you need but buy higher spec stuff. For example you could ditch the external dac for now and allow the dac built into the streamer. You could also buy an integrated amp rather than seperate pre and power amps. My setup is pretty modest, pioneer A50s integrated amp. Pioneer N30s streamer and PD30s cd player. B&W 685 speakers. I love the sound of my setup. The great thing is that the amp can be used purely as a power amp and pioneer are releasing an external dac that can be used as a preamp I.e. hifi is always upgradeable! Although if you have a £5k budget you dont need to hang about! If you are willing to spend that much I like the look of Audiolab equipment. Speaker wise im an unashamed Bowers & wilkins fan. The KEF ls50s are also worth listening to.

Looking forward to hear what you decide to go for!

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I'll tell you what I use.

Firstly, I copied all my cds to my laptop using EAC (exact audio copy), which is a free ripping software readily available on the net. Ripping to Flac is best, as it reduces the size of the file without losing any sound quality.

I then copied all of these files to a WDTV My Book Live (NAS), which was easy.

I use my av receiver (a multi channel amp), which has built a built in DAC and Streamer to play the files from my WDTV Live.

It can be complicated for a newbie, and I do get confused with the technology if it goes too far beyond the basic, but it's relatively straightforward once you get your head round it.

By the way, 2K is plenty for a getting a decent sounding system, though obviously, a greater budget will improve things.

Don't be afraid to go somewhere like Richer Sounds with your requirements and budget, and I'm sure they'll be able to help you.

 

[nopiano]

Happy to echo Cno's wise words, though an alternative might be a MacBook pro plus a pair of AVI ADM9rs active speakers (which contain DAC and amps). This would cost about two grand or a shade more.

For five grand there are countless alternatives!

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there, and welcome to the forum.

Like everything else, there are many conflicting opinions...which can be very confusing to a Newbie.

FWIW. Here are my thoughts:

- Find a good knowledgeable dealer to help you through the process.

- Understand what solution you would like to see and what your needs are eg. One box solution/spearates; laptop + DAC/Streamer.

- Know what type of sound you like, then do a lot of demoing to get as close to your ideal as possible.

My preference is for a Streamer as I don't want a laptop involved in the chain....and I would rate the Linn DS.

On the amplifier front, I like a less forward sound that isn't analytical, so brands like Arcam, Analogue Audio, Electrocompaniet, Sugden, Musical Fidelity, Croft, Pathos and Unison Research Unico would be examples of brands I would recommend.

Speakers are very personal, need to match the amp they are paired with and work in the room they are going to be put in. ATM The brand I rate most are the Kef R Series/LS50, but there are other good brands like Harbeth, Spendor, Sonus Faber, Vienna Acoustics and Proac.

If I was putting together a £2k system, it would be something like:

Linn Sneaky + Rega Brio R + Kef R100

If I had £5k to spend, there would be more options:

Linn Majik DSM + Kef R700

Linn Sneaky DS + Sugden A21SE + Kef R500/Sonus Faber Toy Tower

Linn Majik DS + Electrocompaniet PI-2 + Kef LS50/R300

 

[Glacialpath]

Hey there, welcome to the mad house.

Richer sounds is a good place for a newbi to start but you seem to have a sizable budget. If you devide kit up in to 3 stages. Bronze, Silver and Gold then Richer Sounds do Bronze and Silver and Audio-T and Seven Oaks do the Silver and Gold.

That's not disrespecting Richer Sounds it just fact. I know though they could help you part with 5K and help you well.

If you have the time and paciants then start are RS get a feel for what the kit can do but don't buy till you've been to Audio-T, Seven Oaks or another specialist Hi-Fi dealer as you might feel the higher and of your budget will sound better.

Personally I would use a seperate DAC. Every digital audio device has a DAC in it if it has and audio output. not to be confused with a signal path output like USB.

I use a power amp and control amp but I believe in having the sections of a system having a designated bit of kit. That's not saying an intergrated amp can do as good a job. Demo both configurations and see what you prefer plus with and without a stand anole DAC.

Have fun.

 

[Al ears]

Cnoevil's comments are good as usual as is the suggestion to use powered speakers like the AVI's, however I feel you do not give us enough information.

How big is the room you will be listening in? You will need a computer of some description obviously to rip CD's (unless you intend to download all your music from the web). Is this what you intend to do? i.e. we need to know where you intend to source your music in the first place. Also if said computer is likely to be in the same room as your hifi system then do you really need a streamer? You could just connect computer / DAC / amplifier.

With your list I would possibly cut out the external DAC (if going with a streamer) or cut out the streamer (if computer in same room as hifi). Iwould also keep it simple and buy an integrated amplifier.

Whichever way you decide to go make sure you have it straight in your head what the end outcome is going to be, set a strick budget to include cables / interconnects / speaker stands / hifi rack (as required) and try to audition as much as you possibly can.

Plan ahead always and make sure the system is going to provide everything you require in the way of connectivity now as it may work out expensive changing it all out at a later date.

 

[stevebrock]

Rega Brio R / Rega Dac / KEF R100 / MacBook PRO (used) using iPhone/iPad to control all via iTunes

would be my choice, but this is only my preference.

 

[rainsoothe]

hi - nice detailed answers by Cno and Al Ears.

1. Your ears should be the ones to make the final decision, not reviews and other people's opinions. So try to audition all the suggested gear.

2. Room size is important, also the music and sound type you're into - suggestions will be closer to what you need.

3. As the others have mentioned, most streamers have DACs in them, which are just as valid as their standalone counterparts. Also, there's several ways of doing the streaming. U can either (a) go directly from a PC/laptop through a USB DAC, then to an amp and speakers (or amp with integrated DAC, like the Nad d 3020), or (b) stream via your router, either wirelessly or through ethernet (better sound quality afaik if you go wired), to a streamer, then an amp and speakers.

I, for one, like the second option better, since it's easyer to keep adding wireless sources, like friends coming with their laptops etc and controling streamer with smartphone app, etc.The only downside (if you can call it that) is that most streamers can't be used as USB dacs (their USB ports are mainly for upgrading firmware or playing music directly from USB sticks/hard drives/iPods) - but imo that's a bit redundant anyway IF you have a router in your house - which most people usually do - since the streamer works like an ethernet DAC in this situation.

4. If I were on that budget (admitedly I'm a newly turned Naim fan) I would keep it as simple as possible and go NAS-->Naim Unitiqute 2--> speakers. The UQ 2 is simple, tiny, sounds great, has a plethora of digital inputs, radio and can later be upgraded with power amp if you find it underpowered (which you shouldn't). It also has an analogue input if you wanna add a turntable later. If you audition it and find it needs more control and excitement, add the NAP100 power amp to it and it will make a difference. I think this will be enough for a 15 sq meter room kind of deal. For bigger (and the 5k pound budget), Naim Unity2 is the way to go.

As for speakers, Naim partners very well with the Kef (LS50), Neat (Iota for small, or Motive 2 or 2SX floorstaners), Sonus Faber (toy tower or upwards), PMC and Totem.

Goodluck.

 

[DocG]

Hi roadrunner,

You need to think and decide as clearly as possible what you're after. Your first post is a good start.

To me, the main question would be: do you need a system because you need it to listen to all the music you like ("fit and forget", and change when something's broken), or are you interested in all the different devices you could use to get there. In the latter case, you better buy everything in separate boxes, so you can swap, upgrade (or 'sidegrade') and change what you want when you want it. If music comes first, the best VFM is in 'integrated' solutions. You pay less for the casework and the synergy is supposed to be good to start with. The extreme example being a server-DAC-preamp and a pair of active speakers.

Other 'rational' combinations are: NAS - streamer (with DAC) - integrated amp - passive speakers; or NAS (with streamer functionality) - integrated amp with DAC - speakers, ...

Could you tell us more about your room (dimensions, furniture, ...)? And your listening habits (what music; loud or quiet; alone or with others; "serious" listening or more background music, ...)?

 

[Overdose]

I would suggest a NAS as a central media server and then on to a wireless client connected directly to the hifi.

Take a close look at the Synology NAS solutions. They can be configured to stream to Airplay devices and as such, I would recommend the Apple Airport Express as the client. With these two, you now need the 'hifi' part of the system.

I use and would always recommend, an active speaker solution. In your case and for many other similar situations, I would recommend the AVI ADM9 speakers. The have built in DAC and remote controlled preamp, so you would need nothing else, save maybe some stands if not using shelves.

To control the system, an Android or iOS device could be used. Personally, I think that a 7" tablet would be pefect.

Other variations on the theme exist and one other option would be to use either a mini Pc or a Mac mini for server and media player.

Spending much more than this system costs will not reap you significant benefits, but may buy you more bling.

 

[roadrunner]

Thanks to all that have provided their responses. Let me give you some additional information that should answer the questions raised.

Type of music - Classical, Smooth Jazz, 60's-70's rock

Room size - 15 sqm

I live in a flat, so the volume cannot be turned up too high.

Simple is much better - I would prefer not having separate boxes for each component.

I believe my ideal solution would be 2 boxes which communicate with one another and a pair of speakers. The boxes would be a NAS connected to an amplifier, which is connected to the speakers.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks

 

[Overdose]

Thanks to all that have provided their responses. Let me give you some additional information that should answer the questions raised.

Type of music - Classical, Smooth Jazz, 60's-70's rock

Room size - 15 sqm

I live in a flat, so the volume cannot be turned up too high.

Simple is much better - I would prefer not having separate boxes for each component.

I believe my ideal solution would be 2 boxes which communicate with one another and a pair of speakers. The boxes would be a NAS connected to an amplifier, which is connected to the speakers.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks

Given your room size, you might be more than happy with the AVI DM5s instead of the ADM9s, but still retain the server setup. Plug the Airport Express analogue output directly into the speakers.

This would save you another £500 or so and you could buy an iPad with that money for additional audio streaming options.

 

[CnoEvil]

Thanks to all that have provided their responses. Let me give you some additional information that should answer the questions raised.

Type of music - Classical, Smooth Jazz, 60's-70's rock

Room size - 15 sqm

I live in a flat, so the volume cannot be turned up too high.

Simple is much better - I would prefer not having separate boxes for each component.

I believe my ideal solution would be 2 boxes which communicate with one another and a pair of speakers. The boxes would be a NAS connected to an amplifier, which is connected to the speakers.

I hope that this helps.

Thanks

I would then suggest you try a Linn Majik DSM (preferably) or a Sneaky DSM with some Kef LS50s; and then use that as a reference point with which to judge other systems.

http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Majik_DSM and http://docs.linn.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Sneaky_DSM

http://andreweverard.com/2013/10/21/review-linns-sneaky-dsm-like-a-kiko-but-invisible/ and http://www.whathifi.com/linn/majik-dsm/review

The DSMs can also be used as a media hub, as they have all the digital connections you need to plug in TVs and Blu Ray Players etc.

 

[DocG]

OK, all getting clearer and clearer.

Another speaker aspect: how far could you pull the speakers into the room? Many speakers need at least 50 cm (and often a lot more) off the front and side walls to keep their sound balanced. But there are designs you can use much closer to the wall (like sealed boxes), or models developed with this use in mind (like the Gurus).

Cno's point is also relevant: will you pipe the TV sound through the system too? Or is it just for music?

 

[Jota180]

My set up is a Synology DS213+ NAS > ethernet cable > Naim Unitiqute 2 > NAP100 power Amp > KEF LS50.

You could save money not buying a power amp and stick different standmounts on the end and still have a very good system.

There's no chance of me going back to a standalone CD player after the convenience and sound quality from this.

But talk to some local dealers to see what's out there and best suited to your needs.

 

[DocG]

One more question: do you need internet radio and streaming services (à la Spotify) in the package?

 

[roadrunner]

DocG,

Internet radio and Spotify are not requirements.

Thanks

 

[Hi-FiOutlaw]

My set up is a Synology DS213+ NAS > ethernet cable > Naim Unitiqute 2 > NAP100 power Amp > KEF LS50.

You could save money not buying a power amp and stick different standmounts on the end and still have a very good system.

There's no chance of me going back to a standalone CD player after the convenience and sound quality from this.

But talk to some local dealers to see what's out there and best suited to your needs.

For me this is the best way to go, if you have the budget!

A NAS is future prof, Synology is always providing OS updates, is has media center (audio and video) you can stream audio and video through your domestic wi fi and out of home as well, you can access remotely using the apps provided by Synology!

Now, this is IMO, you can get better sound quality using a external DAC and not the DAC inside of a convendional streamer, in a streamer you are buying lot of things that you might not need, for exemple the NAS can be used as a streamer, all you need is synology audio app instaled in a ithing.

Nowadays there are no right or rong!

just personal preferences as has been said.

 

[DocG]

The UnitiQute2, as suggested by rainsoothe and Jota180, might be just the thing for you. Fed by a NAS, and driving a pair of standmounters, like LS50s or Neat Iotas.

Going the Linn route, as Cno suggested, will be a little more expensive, unless you go ex-demo and second hand.

Another option could be the Peachtree Nova 65 SE: integrated amp, with DAC included, class A pre, tube buffer, class D power amp, and style in spades! Combine it with a Synology NAS, and the Guru Juniors, and you have a stunning, living-room friendly hifi-set! Within your £2000 budget!

 

[davedotco]

The UnitiQute2, as suggested by rainsoothe and Jota180, might be just the thing for you. Fed by a NAS, and driving a pair of standmounters, like LS50s or Neat Iotas.

Going the Linn route, as Cno suggested, will be a little more expensive, unless you go ex-demo and second hand.

Another option could be the Peachtree Nova 65 SE: integrated amp, with DAC included, class A pre, tube buffer, class D power amp, and style in spades! Combine it with a Synology NAS, and the Guru Juniors, and you have a stunning, living-room friendly hifi-set! Within your £2000 budget!

Nice though the Nova is it does not have network capability. I believe it is possible to set up the Synology drive to ouput 'regular' digital straight into a dac but have no idea how.

Perhaps someone familiar with this kind of setup can help me out here.

 

[DocG]

The UnitiQute2, as suggested by rainsoothe and Jota180, might be just the thing for you. Fed by a NAS, and driving a pair of standmounters, like LS50s or Neat Iotas.

Going the Linn route, as Cno suggested, will be a little more expensive, unless you go ex-demo and second hand.

Another option could be the Peachtree Nova 65 SE: integrated amp, with DAC included, class A pre, tube buffer, class D power amp, and style in spades! Combine it with a Synology NAS, and the Guru Juniors, and you have a stunning, living-room friendly hifi-set! Within your £2000 budget!

Nice though the Nova is it does not have network capability. I believe it is possible to set up the Synology drive to ouput 'regular' digital straight into a dac but have no idea how.

Perhaps someone familiar with this kind of setup can help me out here.

That would be: NAS --> USB --> DAC, not unlike what Hifi Outlaw does, and Matt49.

 

[davedotco]

The UnitiQute2, as suggested by rainsoothe and Jota180, might be just the thing for you. Fed by a NAS, and driving a pair of standmounters, like LS50s or Neat Iotas.

Going the Linn route, as Cno suggested, will be a little more expensive, unless you go ex-demo and second hand.

Another option could be the Peachtree Nova 65 SE: integrated amp, with DAC included, class A pre, tube buffer, class D power amp, and style in spades! Combine it with a Synology NAS, and the Guru Juniors, and you have a stunning, living-room friendly hifi-set! Within your £2000 budget!

Nice though the Nova is it does not have network capability. I believe it is possible to set up the Synology drive to ouput 'regular' digital straight into a dac but have no idea how.

Perhaps someone familiar with this kind of setup can help me out here.

That would be: NAS --> USB --> DAC, not unlike what Hifi Outlaw does, and Matt49.

That is kind of what I thought.

What I am trying to get my head around is how that is achieved in terms of control and other software and why a NAS is used rather than just a simple USB drive. I know there are good reasons why this is the case, I just do not understand what they are.

I do find the whole computer/hi-fi interface rather difficult, the different types of usb inputs on amplifiers for example, I understand what they are for but not how and why they work the way they do. Streaming protocols and control software are other areas I would like to learn about but I have yet to find a paper or article that brings it all together in simple terms.

 

[rainsoothe]

hm... be careful please - I don't think NAS' USB works with DAC, the USB ports on NASes are more for pluging USB hard drives and stuff. Everything else require drivers, and, afaik, there are issues there. I did a quick google on the subject, and on the Synology forums the conclusion was this: on the NAS specs it says that the USB CAN work with USB speakers (which is a bit different), and someone mailed the guys at NAD, trying to get info about using NAD 3020 with Synology NAS directly through the USB port and the people at NAD confirmed it didn't work.

But one would need a router for the NAS anyway, so I don't see much of a reason for going direct USB. Ah, nvm, it was about the peachtree not having networking capabilities, sorry. Well if it does have only a digital input, i guess you could stream from NAS to TV/Bluray Player/Laptop, then go digital into the Peachtree if OP auditions and likes it

 

[unsleepable]

Well, it's true that the USB port is used by default to access the NAS as a drive. But the Synology is really a computer with a Linux OS. With the Audio Station add-on, it can use an audio interface connected on the USB port—such as, for example, the Peachtree Nova—to play music. Basically you use the NAS as a streamer.

The issue with the NAD could just be that the USB devices that the Synology supports are limited.