Recently been tinkering with my setup - replacement speakers, cable and mains block - and now feeling very happy. But only up to a point... Via my CDP, I'm chuffed as nuts that classical music and acoustic jazz instruments/voices sound very 'realistic' and 'alive', while SA-CDs, 'old' CDs (ie non-remastered AADs with less compression, such as Jimi Hendrix's) and the likes of Elbow and I Am Kloot's output (ie contemporary recordings that strive for minimal compression) sound rather lovely: very balanced with lots of detail and separation; deep and tight bass; sweet and sparkling top-end treble but no hint of brightness. However, the flipside of this apparent nirvana is that most contemporary rock/pop/dance CDs sound much too bass-heavy and lack mid-range and top-end detail. Of course, the latter scenario is a consequence of compression, 'loudness' and a seemingly never-ending quest for more bass. Back in the day, if IMO a recording was a tad bass-heavy and lacked detail, I'd give my dear old Arcam Alpha's treble tone control a wee twist to 2 o'clock. Job done. And 'in those days', even very high-end amps had bass and treble tone controls. I appreciate that, ultimately, tone controls distort the signal path, but in a era when there are clearly two types of recordings, 'bass-heavy compressed' and 'less compressed', and as the former type becomes ever more prevalent, isn't it time that manufacturers took note and re-introduced bass and treble tone controls? Anyone else agree?
Tone controls - time for their return??
- Thread starter 6th.replicant
- Start date
idc
Well-known member
Totally, but not for me. I am a terrible fidget and they would drive me mad. I am also lucky that after loads of different 'sounds' I know that Musical Fidelity and AKG makes the sound that is perfect for me. If I want a change, I just swap headphones.
igglebert:Yes
Peter Walker had the right idea...
Yes, the BRM V16's exhaust note was very tuneful. But methinks we're referring to different Peter Walkers...
Who's 'your' Peter Walker?
Yes, the BRM V16's exhaust note was very tuneful. But methinks we're referring to different Peter Walkers...
Who's 'your' Peter Walker?
chebby
Well-known member
I find that when using Sonos on the line out level variable into the Cyrus 8Xpd Amp gives me Bass, Treble and Loudness settings control that I would not normally have and it is fun to tweak!
maxflinn:covered here..
Indeed, but it doesn't hurt to rekindle the torches, you never know who's 'listening', or when...
Indeed, but it doesn't hurt to rekindle the torches, you never know who's 'listening', or when...
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Nothing wrong with properly designed tone controls. Furthermore I'm currently using a DacMagic and find the different filter settings very useful for some less well record and/or mastered stuff.
Got various filters and the like as well as bass and treble tone controls on the 717, use them occasionally, mostly muting after the kids have gone to bed, the occasional high filter at 6khz kicks in (it has adjustable settings for bass and the treble). Otherwise, during the day, it sits at a neutral setting, tone defeat on.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
The best tone controls I've ever used have been those on the Audiolab 8000a. Subtle, but changed enough to hear a difference, and didn't spoil the presentation.
chebby
Well-known member
It is a pity Audiolab didn't retain them..
(Although I doubt anything from the original 8000A is retained in the modern 8000S except the resemblance of the case and the brand name.)
(Although I doubt anything from the original 8000A is retained in the modern 8000S except the resemblance of the case and the brand name.)
plastic penguin
Well-known member
6th.replicant:Recently been tinkering with my setup - replacement speakers, cable and mains block - and now feeling very happy. But only up to a point... Via my CDP, I'm chuffed as nuts that classical music and acoustic jazz instruments/voices sound very 'realistic' and 'alive', while SA-CDs, 'old' CDs (ie non-remastered AADs with less compression, such as Jimi Hendrix's) and the likes of Elbow and I Am Kloot's output (ie contemporary recordings that strive for minimal compression) sound rather lovely: very balanced with lots of detail and separation; deep and tight bass; sweet and sparkling top-end treble but no hint of brightness. However, the flipside of this apparent nirvana is that most contemporary rock/pop/dance CDs sound much too bass-heavy and lack mid-range and top-end detail. Of course, the latter scenario is a consequence of compression, 'loudness' and a seemingly never-ending quest for more bass. Back in the day, if IMO a recording was a tad bass-heavy and lacked detail, I'd give my dear old Arcam Alpha's treble tone control a wee twist to 2 o'clock. Job done. And 'in those days', even very high-end amps had bass and treble tone controls. I appreciate that, ultimately, tone controls distort the signal path, but in a era when there are clearly two types of recordings, 'bass-heavy compressed' and 'less compressed', and as the former type becomes ever more prevalent, isn't it time that manufacturers took note and re-introduced bass and treble tone controls? Anyone else agree?
I've always been a huge believer of tone controls, and I don't go along with "tone controls distort the signal" chestnut. Since buying the Leema my views haven't changed one jot. There's only one line to take: hi-fi is a compromise, this includes tone controls.
I've always been a huge believer of tone controls, and I don't go along with "tone controls distort the signal" chestnut. Since buying the Leema my views haven't changed one jot. There's only one line to take: hi-fi is a compromise, this includes tone controls.
Just like certain high class restaurants, where, if you ask for salt or pepper, you risk being trown out, some hifi without tone controls reflect as much the creators idea of perfection as it does to 'preserve signal purity'. As such it may not be everybodies idea of what a piece of hifi should contain/represent but the choice is ultimately yours/ours into which 'believe' or house sound we want to buy into.
I got nothing agains tone controls. One of my amps has them, the other does'nt. I buy an amplifier on the basis of what it sounds like without them either enaged or not there at all. If I'd change/fiddle with them according to source/music used, I'd be constantly twiddling with the things which a/ I have no inclanation to do and b/ is pretty pointless. If on the other hand I have a certain part of the chain which could do with a boost or reduction on a permanent basis, I'd probably do so using them, if present. So far, that has not been the case.
I got nothing agains tone controls. One of my amps has them, the other does'nt. I buy an amplifier on the basis of what it sounds like without them either enaged or not there at all. If I'd change/fiddle with them according to source/music used, I'd be constantly twiddling with the things which a/ I have no inclanation to do and b/ is pretty pointless. If on the other hand I have a certain part of the chain which could do with a boost or reduction on a permanent basis, I'd probably do so using them, if present. So far, that has not been the case.
Cass
Well-known member
Agree with the OP. I too have found many modern CDs to be bass-heavy, so I basically have two "modes" on my amp: (1) for older, well-balanced recordings, switch to tone defeat (also use this for all CDs when listening at low volume, to bring out the bass). (2) for bass-heavy recordings at higher volume, switch on the tone controls - I keep the bass knob between 10 and 11 o'clock and rarely feel the need to adjust it.
I'd say that tone controls have their place in the audio world, but they may not be for everyone. One of the best amps I've ever heard is the NAD C326BEE which comes with tone controls; conversely, I've listened to amps with no tone controls that sounded awful. I guess it's all down to proper system matching? For example, pairing a 21-watt class A Sugden amp that has no tone controls with low-sensitivity speakers (85dB and less) might give the mistaken impression that the Sugden isn't a good amp.
Personally, I prefer amps without tone knobs because I hardly ever use them. Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
Personally, I prefer amps without tone knobs because I hardly ever use them. Diff'rent strokes, I guess.
Andy H
Well-known member
I think tone controls should come back. I have them on mine and on the odd occasion use them. I'm happy with the system matching and sound of my system, but you do sometimes get a cd that doesn't sound quite right. It's how the producer wanted it to sound, well I'm sorry but who's to say what he or she wants is what I always want.
Just my 2p worth.
Just my 2p worth.
I was hoping this might turn into a discussion about the BRM V16!
Is 6th Repicant the only member here to have heard it?
Is 6th Repicant the only member here to have heard it?
drummerman:Just like certain high class restaurants, where, if you ask for salt or pepper, you risk being trown out, some hifi without tone controls reflect as much the creators idea of perfection as it does to 'preserve signal purity'. As such it may not be everybodies idea of what a piece of hifi should contain/represent but the choice is ultimately yours/ours into which 'believe' or house sound we want to buy into...
Good analogy, but unfortunately CDs aren't all 'cooked' by the same chef, with the same ingredients or care. I guess it's the difference 'tween Raymond Blanc's bouillabaisse and Delia Smith's - I suspect the latter's might need a dash of salt 'n' pepper, whereas the former's would not?
Similarly(ish), a rock ape such as I could never lap a V16-engined BRM P15 anywhere near Peter Walker's pace - in comparison, my driving would need a good 'twist of bass and treble'
Good analogy, but unfortunately CDs aren't all 'cooked' by the same chef, with the same ingredients or care. I guess it's the difference 'tween Raymond Blanc's bouillabaisse and Delia Smith's - I suspect the latter's might need a dash of salt 'n' pepper, whereas the former's would not?
Similarly(ish), a rock ape such as I could never lap a V16-engined BRM P15 anywhere near Peter Walker's pace - in comparison, my driving would need a good 'twist of bass and treble'
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