This weekend I have mostly been trying; Arcam, Naim, Marantz, Totem & KEF

[admin_exported]

Greetings!

So I took my beautiful and lovely missus (from now on referred to as Ma B) shopping Saturday morning, unfortunately I had to leave her in Dot P's to go and sit on a comfy sofa and listen to a few CD's that had miraculously appeared in my coat pocket.

Armed and eager I dashed off to the end of the High Street and into wonderland...

The first set up was: Arcam CD17, A28 and Totem Arro speakers (this dealer didn't stock KEF). On sight, the first impressions of the Arro's were great, they looked compact and simple, but of good build quality. Someone had taken time over these beauties and they were pretty cute and not at all intimidating. I loaded Adeimus "Song Of Tears" and was blown away! The hairs on my back promptly stood to attention and I started to desperately think of how to disguise these diminutive pair of puppies as IQ5SE's! Next I slid Norah Jones in and nestled excitedly back into "Don't know why": silky smooth vocals, but then, horror of horrors, the song picked up and Norah launched into full flight. The S was so pronounced "sssomething hasss to make you run...blah blah blah". At this point I must stress that the volume was up around 10oc. I asked the kindly gentleman to turn it down a touch in order to repair some of the disappointment that had brought me down to earth with a thud.

The gent suggested that I try Naim Nait 5i and the Nait CD player. Whilst he disappeared to get the kit I shoved Bob Sinclair "Love generation" in (Ma B likes to party and I always have her best interests at heart). Nice start with the acoustic arrangement, but just as the drums started and the party started rocking the gent came back in with the Naim bits. I turned it off feeling a little underwhelmed at the performance, it all seemed to struggle.

I liked the Naim stuff, it was attractive and simple, a little like myself. I plopped Adeimus back in and liked what I heard. Although, I was not blown away as with the Arcam. Once the volume was pushed a little, I again felt the Arro's struggled a touch. However, the Naim stuff seemed a more pleasant listening experience and less strained.

Unfortunately I couldn't stake for cake since I had to dash to another shop to try so more kit (fortunately the next town had a Dot P's too).

Marantz CD6002 & PM6002 with KEF IQ50's: Nice sound, quite pleasing infact, but not mind blowing. To be honest I really wanted to listen to the Arcam again and fortunately the kit was already set up for the next appointment. So I promptly switched kit.

ArcamCD17, A28 and KEFIQ50's: Norah, pretty smooth and well organised. I was pleasantly surprised with the KEF. Adeimus again good vocals, clear and haunting. Enjoying myself now and with the room to myself decided to test the speakers a little more. "Entre Dos Aguas" by Paco De Lucia and up the vol. Ooooh the tom toms where being whacked with vigour and sounding great smacking out of the KEF's, lovely and precise.

I sat for a while trying to digest the mornings testing and must confess to still being confused.

I like the unfussy looking equipment, the Marantz had a bit too much going on, too many nobs to get twiddled. The Naim and Arcam both looked the part. But I would have to say that I preffered the Naim, only thing is I didn't get to try it with the KEF which in my humble opinion stood up well to the Totem's (and the KEF50's get a worse write up than the IQ5SE's).

I looked at my bank account and decided that I can't stretch to the Primare i30 and CD31 (probably a good thing that I didn't listen to them). However, I am now thinking of the i21 and CD21 if only I can find someone to demo them with the KEF along side the Naim.

 

[John Duncan]

Sibilance is the bane of my life - do you get it with your current system?

 

[Anonymous]

It's not so pronounced. However, I did spend some time listening to the Norah Jones track on various formats and she does tend so ssssss.

One thing that did strike me is how the quality of recording really matters when using better kit.

 

[JoelSim]

confused.org:

It's not so pronounced. However, I did spend some time listening to the Norah Jones track on various formats and she does tend so ssssss.

One thing that did strike me is how the quality of recording really matters when using better kit.

It certainly does. I get a little sibilansss on some tracks but not enough to worry me

 

[John Duncan]

JoelSim:confused.org:

It's not so pronounced. However, I did spend some time listening to the Norah Jones track on various formats and she does tend so ssssss.

One thing that did strike me is how the quality of recording really matters when using better kit.

It certainly does. I get a little sibilansss on some tracks but not enough to worry me

It annoys me - I want to hear some of my music on a proper reference system to see if it's the recording or not!

 

[JoelSim]

I have to say I only really notice it on 1 or 2 CDs

 

[drummerman]

confused.org:
I like the unfussy looking equipment, the Marantz had a bit too much going on, too many nobs to get twiddled. The Naim and Arcam both looked the part. But I would have to say that I preffered the Naim, only thing is I didn't get to try it with the KEF which in my humble opinion stood up well to the Totem's (and the KEF50's get a worse write up than the IQ5SE's).

Great to hear there is another 'Kef convert'. I have to say they are fantastic speakers and they quickly shot up my favorite list, right to the top for the little money they command. I am as guilty as many to have dismissed them in the past, never giving them any real time with good equipment. Many other manufacturers would charge much more for what you get. Don't dismiss the older iQ7 or SE's either.

 

[Anonymous]

I called up a dealer yesterday with the aim of trying the Primare I21 and CD21 together with the KEF - the response was a resounding "no" these speakers are not good enough.

try some B&W.

I have to confess to having been somewhat "brand predjudice" in the past. However, thanks to Ma B (the love of my life) I am far more open minded and a little more prudent than in the past. I have even been known to shop in Aldi for some products.

I wouldn't dismiss the KEF without hearing them first.

 

[John Duncan]

confused.org:the response was a resounding "no" these speakers are not good enough

A B&W dealer, then?

 

[Anonymous]

Not solely B&W, the sell KEF also.

BTW some of the cheeses in Aldi are great! and the popcorn is a must

 

[drummerman]

Ah Aldi, lovely, suits my germanic tastes well and really ... anything to take business from Tesco's.

Just to go back to the KEF subject, the ones I had here pretty much matched my previous, more expensive speakers with much cheaper components ie. similar sound quality overall. They also don't suffer from obvious port noise, something I found a little obtrusive with Rega's R range though they are nice too.

 

[drummerman]

confused.org:
Not solely B&W, the sell KEF also.

BTW some of the cheeses in Aldi are great! and the popcorn is a must

Yep and the Parma ham and smoked salmon not to mention fresh orange juice and yoghurts ... getting hungry.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally, I think the KEF iQs are not very good. I had at home for several weeks the iQ7, and iQ3. Didn't like them at all. They are cold, transient attacks are very soft, they are boring, they don't have detail...has anyone touched the mid-woofer cone? It bends, it's not stiff. It cannot have pistonic movement. It may have good damping characteristics, so it doesn't ring, which gives a fairly good timbre. But it's not stiff at all, and I think that's one of the reasons why they don't have detail.

Tannoys are far superior for me (although, to be fair, an entry-level Dual Concentric is a bit more expensive than an iQ).

I think Primare deserves a better speaker than an iQ5.

Just for the record, I'm somehow related to KEF commercially, so my opinion is really honest.

 

[drummerman]

Fair enough, we don't all like the same thing. I've used them with Denon/CA and in both cases transient response, clarity and dynamics where never an issue, quite the opposite. Bass was super tight, totally delineated and every note was clearly audible without any overhang whatsoever, hence my previous description of them as sounding like a class standmount. Sometimes bass seemed to come from below the floor and you felt the 'seismic' movement, lovely. Treble was sweet and clear though perhaps not as airy as a high standmounted quality compact such as proacs. Probably because of the UniQ arrangement but even so it was'nt far behind. Drums sounded rock hard even at high volumes and guitar rifts literally made a friend visiting jump, so transients, I thought, where spot on. Equally important, they sounded good and sweet at low volumes, late at night.

They got even better with a small sub, so much so that I seriously started to think that a lot more money is necessary to better this. As always, just my opinion.

 

[John Duncan]

Tannoyite:I think Primare deserves a better speaker than an iQ5

So do I, though I think a flat "no" is a little too much.

 

[Anonymous]

That's true drummerman, we all have different taste, and that's the beauty of it.

I hope my post didn't sound too rude. If it did, I apologize.

Maybe, it also has to do with the fact that I mainly listen to classical music. Maybe with pop or rock I would think differently of the iQs.

 

[drummerman]

You were'nt rude at all mate. Yes, I could imagine that classical perhaps requires something more 'visceral' though adding the sub went a long way towards it. Out of interest, what is your connection with KEF?

 

[Anonymous]

drummerman: Out of interest, what is your connection with KEF?

I'm in a certain way involved with the brand's distribution in my country.

 

[Anonymous]

The other speakers that I listened to with the Arcam kit were Totem Arro's.

Has anybody tried the Totem?

 

[Anonymous]

Mr. Ray Palmer has a pair of Totem's, but I can't remember which model - anyhow, he loves them!

 

[Anonymous]

I have the iQ7's and have discussed with Drummerman on previous posts. He really likes them, but I have struggled a bit with them. I found they really change character depending on the room they sit in. In a large room they lacked bass and balance, but in a smaller square room they sounded better. I have to agree with Tannoyite in the sense that I couldn't get as much detail as I would have liked out of them, although I do get drummerman's great floor rumble in the smaller room.

Your thread could run off in to loads of discussions. In terms of getting the best system to a specified budget is really hard, and there have been a couple of threads just debating which piece of the chain to concentrate on. It seems you budget is around the £1600 mark, and if I was in this position I would start by listening to the Marantz CD6002, Marantz PM6002 or alternatives around the £350 mark, and £1000 on speakers. I was overwhelmed when I replaced my KEF with PMC, but less overwhelmed when I replaced my Marantz gear with Primare. I am not sure how good floorstanders are at £1k mark, also think about standmounts and a sub (There are some massive threads on this subject as well). I get the impression from others that standmount + sub punches well per £ spent. I am in the process of ordering a sub, so still learning about this stuff.

The one thing I am adamant about is don't place too much weight on shop listening room time. On busy weekends there are queues of people waiting for the room, and an overzealous shop assistant popping his head around asking if you can hear the improvement, as if it is a GCSE practical examination. Use any this time to filter a short list and then ask to buy on Sale or return. This way you get to listen at your pace to all your CDs, and can deal with your own room dynamics. It also takes out the salesman factor, so if you can't hear a difference at home, then you can't.

I am so anti buying gear just based on listening rooms, I would rather buy the same gear on the internet discounted and flog on ebay if I didn't like - If my closest dealers not allowing sale or return.