The Pursuit of (HD Audio) Happiness with an Apple Set Up

[Nimrod79]

I have made the recent leap to an Apple MacBook Pro from my old faithfull Dell laptop, with the clear intention of transferring my entire CD collection (1000+ CDs) to iTunes, and therefore seeking ultimate compatibility between Apple Hardware and Software. The basic setup is as follows:

Router in hallway cupboard

TP link through power supply to access router in lounge

Airport express in lounge hardwired to router (via TP Link through power supply)

2TB NAS connected to Airport Express in lounge

Apple TV in lounge being used to stream music from wireless network (via Airport Express) to Audiolab MDAC (as Airport Express kept breaking up the audio transfer - no such issue with the Apple TV)

Wanting to move away from CDs and buy any new music in HD (from someone like HDtracks.com) I was particularly disheartened to learn that AE and ATV do not offer true HD audio, and in fact do not even offer CD quality! I have just spanked a considerable sum on sum new speakers and am extremely disappointed.

I did hear that I might be able to solve my issue by buying an Apple Mini, but before I part with any more money on Apple gadgets, I would be grateful if anyone has shared the same experiences as me and has any helpful solutions. I am also more than happy to move away from iTunes, as it has been an absolute nightmare, especially as my music collection (in AIFF) is on a NAS.

Thanks as always guys.

Tim

 

[stevebrock]

As you have probably discovcered apple tv, AE etc up sample to 48khz so it isnt bit-perfect

I have had stunning results from a MBP via Optical into a DAC

However currently my MBP is redundant now, I just use it ti import CDs and my iTunes library is now pointed to my NAS which is hardwired to my DAC

Also if you want to get into Hi-Res music they say hard wiring is the best method

 

[stevebrock]

you have a lot of requirements, Im sure someone will be along soon to give some useful advice

I have been trying to get my head round NAS, DAC & streamers for a while now, I love Apple computers and OS X but it isnt as straightforward as a PC, seems apple have no intention of going HD, they are a corparate so its music for the masses........compressed MP3s

Ironically Steve Jobs was said to only have a Turntable at home as a source for his music! What does that say then?

 

[Nimrod79]

As you have probably discovcered apple tv, AE etc up sample to 48khz so it isnt bit-perfect

I have had stunning results from a MBP via Optical into a DAC

However currently my MBP is redundant now, I just use it ti import CDs and my iTunes library is now pointed to my NAS which is hardwired to my DAC

Also if you want to get into Hi-Res music they say hard wiring is the best method

I have the new Retina Display MBP so no optical to go to the DAC, USB only - which is no problem, however, doesn't help my wireless issues

Do you know if a dedicated Apple Mini would solve my problems, and still mean I could control everything from the MBP wirelessly, but still enable HD playback because of the Mini?

 

[stevebrock]

The apple mini will output at 24/96 but iTunes will not support FLAC which is how most 24/96 files are coded

Its a bit of a nightmare!

Only just got my MBP, i didnt get a Retina one soley because I wanted optical out & Superdrive

I cant really offer anymore advice really

I just put all my ALAC files on a Synology NAS and using the Synology app to control it

 

[MajorFubar]

I use a Mac Mini, connected to a HRT II+ via a USB. It can output bit-perfect all the way upto 24/96 (probably higher but that's the lmit of my HRT). I have the 'BitPerfect' app (see here: http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.co.uk) piggy-backed invisibly onto my iTunes, which does all the bit-depth and bit-rate switching on the fly without any input from me. Basically it's a plug-n-go solution which (kind of, 99% of the time) just works.

Oh and software like Max and XLD can trascode between FLAC and ALAC for you.

 

[stevebrock]

I think Major Fubar is the man to ask then!

 

[MajorFubar]

lol! I can help until the conversation veers-off towards Airplay, AE and ATVs; I don't really use any of those, and so I don't know the strengths and limitations.

 

[stevebrock]

what I will say if you want HD audio then forget AE, ATV......well Apple full stop.........

 

[MajorFubar]

Can't agree with that Steve as I have had no hassles with HD audio on my Macs, other than the need to transcode HD FLACs into something iTunes can recognise. But at the end of the day it's down to whatever solution works best for you. To be honest it seems a lot simpler on a Mac than the faffing-around I see people go through on a PC. iTunes + BitPerfect pretty-much does it all invisibly. In fact as it happens, I'm just listening to the Hotel California album on my Mac now, via iTunes, which I can see is being output to my DAC is all its bit-perfect 24/96 wonderfulness.

 

[Nimrod79]

Can't agree with that Steve as I have had no hassles with HD audio on my Macs, other than the need to transcode HD FLACs into something iTunes can recognise. But at the end of the day it's down to whatever solution works best for you. To be honest it seems a lot simpler on a Mac than the faffing-around I see people go through on a PC. iTunes + BitPerfect pretty-much does it all invisibly. In fact as it happens, I'm just listening to the Hotel California album on my Mac now, via iTunes, which I can see is being output to my DAC is all its bit-perfect 24/96 wonderfulness.

Thanks MajorFubar. I don't see the need (in my case) for the HRT as I have a DAC which will handle the conversion for me. I think the main gist I am getting is that the only solution for true HD audio is hardwiring. I take it a MacBook Air would do the trick and also provide a nice easy to use inteface which the Mac Mini would not? I still want to keep the MBP separate as an everyday laptop so would need something exclusively for audio (and video) from the NAS. Do you have any experience with audio players other than iTunes which can play both AIFF and FLAC?

 

[jcarruthers]

A MBP Retina has an optical out!

 

[MajorFubar]

I don't see the need (in my case) for the HRT as I have a DAC which will handle the conversion for me. I think the main gist I am getting is that the only solution for true HD audio is hardwiring.

I think you're right with that one. Obviously you can stream the data wirelessly from a NAS over your network to your Mac/MBP, but I think you're right that the only 100% certain way to get HD audio to a DAC from your computer is via a cable (USB or optical)

I take it a MacBook Air would do the trick and also provide a nice easy to use inteface which the Mac Mini would not?

Main difference for playing audio is the Air has a screen of course. Otherwise I think they'd be similar. You can always use a Mini 'headless' and control it via a phone. Most of the time my Mini is used without the TV on.

Do you have any experience with audio players other than iTunes which can play both AIFF and FLAC?

I've used trial-versions of some of the bolt-on apps like Amarra and Pure Music, both of which could play FLAC (I think!) and AIFF, but they both still use iTunes as a front-end. So probably that's a no! Not on a Mac at any rate. I found it futile to fight against the flow and I just use iTunes + BitPerfect. Even though I'm no great fan of iTunes 11.

 

[Craig M.]

The MBP retina DOES have an optical out, the Macbook Air my other half has does not.

I have directly compared the optical out from my MBPr to my ATV and despite the ATV resampling to 48khz, there is no audible difference between them. The only advantage music from HDTracks has is due to the re-mastering, not the higher bit-rate (sometimes the remaster results in something that sounds worse than the original). So if you are happy with the function and user interface of your current setup - stick with it, and if you think you can hear a difference that the ATV resampling is causing then find a way to properly blind test it.

What NAS do you have and is it close to your DAC? I ask because it may be possible to go direct from NAS to DAC.

 

[Nimrod79]

[/quote]

I've used trial-versions of some of the bolt-on apps like Amarra and Pure Music, both of which could play FLAC (I think!) and AIFF, but they both still use iTunes as a front-end. So probably that's a no! Not on a Mac at any rate. I found it futile to fight against the flow and I just use iTunes + BitPerfect. Even though I'm no great fan of iTunes 11.

[/quote]

Thanks again MajorFubar. What exactly does BitPerfect bring to the table?

 

[Nimrod79]

I've used trial-versions of some of the bolt-on apps like Amarra and Pure Music, both of which could play FLAC (I think!) and AIFF, but they both still use iTunes as a front-end. So probably that's a no! Not on a Mac at any rate. I found it futile to fight against the flow and I just use iTunes + BitPerfect. Even though I'm no great fan of iTunes 11.

[/quote]

I'll try to quote again! What does Bit Perfect add to the setup?

 

[Nimrod79]

The MBP retina DOES have an optical out, the Macbook Air my other half has does not.

I have directly compared the optical out from my MBPr to my ATV and despite the ATV resampling to 48khz, there is no audible difference between them. The only advantage music from HDTracks has is due to the re-mastering, not the higher bit-rate (sometimes the remaster results in something that sounds worse than the original). So if you are happy with the function and user interface of your current setup - stick with it, and if you think you can hear a difference that the ATV resampling is causing then find a way to properly blind test it.

What NAS do you have and is it close to your DAC? I ask because it may be possible to go direct from NAS to DAC.

Thanks Craig, it's a Buffalo Terastation. I am happy to rely on the ATV for wireless video streaming as this seems as good as my bluray player through my 1080p samsung TV. Any help to deliver true hd audio to my DAC is much appreciated - even though by the sounds of things there may be no real audible difference, I have spent too much time and money of late to going down the external storage route to fall at the last hurdle

 

[MajorFubar]

I'll try to quote again! What does Bit Perfect add to the setup?

It just sits in the background and manages the playing-side of iTunes, more or less invisibly. In the case of HD audio, it switches the bit-rate of your DAC automatically, where iTunes on its own does not. It does other things as well, such as loading the songs into RAM where possible to reduce HDD interaction, and it 'hogs' your DAC so OSX can't muck about with it to play system boings and beeps half way through your Mahler. Best $9.99 I ever spent on my Mac imo. And no I'm not on commission, sadly!

 

[AnotherJoe]

Get one of the many 1080p mediaplayers that is certified as a DLNA renderer and plays AIFF (around £80) instead of ATV.

Not only can you stream music, but also ripped dvds/bds.

Use your android/iphone/tablet to control your music just like with an ATV.

 

[Overdose]

The MBP retina DOES have an optical out, the Macbook Air my other half has does not.

I have directly compared the optical out from my MBPr to my ATV and despite the ATV resampling to 48khz, there is no audible difference between them. The only advantage music from HDTracks has is due to the re-mastering, not the higher bit-rate (sometimes the remaster results in something that sounds worse than the original). So if you are happy with the function and user interface of your current setup - stick with it, and if you think you can hear a difference that the ATV resampling is causing then find a way to properly blind test it.

What NAS do you have and is it close to your DAC? I ask because it may be possible to go direct from NAS to DAC.

Thanks Craig, it's a Buffalo Terastation. I am happy to rely on the ATV for wireless video streaming as this seems as good as my bluray player through my 1080p samsung TV. Any help to deliver true hd audio to my DAC is much appreciated - even though by the sounds of things there may be no real audible difference, I have spent too much time and money of late to going down the external storage route to fall at the last hurdle

To ease your worries it probably helps to know that audio file resolutions beyond CD quality (16/44.1) offer nothing extra in terms of sound quality. If audible differences can be shown to exist, then they are due to remastering for the format, ie the recordings are not the same as the CD release for example. The format is not the differentiator here.

The Apple TV plays files at 16/48 and so resamples, but if you can hear the difference, then your hearing must be exceptional, so stick with what you have and don't worry.

The optical output from a Mac (not teaching you to suck eggs here BTW) is via the headphone out socket and requires a special adapter (not expensive) one may have been included in the Macbook package.

FWIW, around a thousand CDs will take up approx 450GB of storage space in ALAC format and around 120GB at 256 Kbps in AAC format using VBR. My Mac mini uses ALAC due to its larger HDD, but my Macbook has 192 AAC files of the same library for mobile use. If there's anything audible between the files, there's not enough in it for me to worry about.

Bit Perfect is something that some people swear by, for me it's just another faff that I can do without, it may work, it may not, but I spend less time worrying about the inconsequentials these days. The focus should be on the music IMO.

 

[Dan Turner]

I think the Op is getting the picture now, but here is my two pence worth based on my experience:

- you can wirelessly stream HD audio but you are likely to have problems if you try to do it over 2.4ghz (wireless G). 5ghz (wireless N) is much more likely to be free from dropouts. Wired is best.

- if you want to do it with Apple then the playback device is going to have to be a computer. a second hand Mac mini might be the best way to go. If I'm not mistaken I think you can set it up so your mac book pro can control it (I.e. use the trackpad, keyboard and screen of the mbp to control the mini), otherwise if you an iSomething to control it with the remote app then that is definitely the easiest option (I don't think you mentioned whether you have). You could do it with your Tv and a separate keyboard and mouse, but that sounds like a ball-ache.

- as other people have mentioned, other manufacturers offer streamers that will handle HD audio if you're willing to move away from apple (definitely the cheapest route), but check out file compatibility and if possible demo the interface and control options first

- I agree with the other folks that said that HD audio isn't inherently any better. There have been some great articles written on the technical reasons why. If I were you I would just stick with the Apple TV and not bother with HD audio

- it may be technically irritating that the ATV resamples to 48khz, but no one can hear the difference, so it's not worth worrying about

- if you are downloading HD audio files in FLAC, then you can convert to another lossless or uncompressed format with no loss of quality using any one of a number of free applications (I've used Max for mac in the past).

- if you end up getting a upnp streamer then you would need to install a media server on your NAS, but in that case the server will probably be able to transcode your files into a compatible format for your streamer on the fly, so file format could be less of an issue.

Good luck!

 

[stevebrock]

this is really informative............told you I was a bit clueless but have learnt something today!

 

[stevebrock]

Just my 2 pence worth........

I am not really interested in Hi-Res audio, yes I have heard it and compared with Red Book CD it still suffers from poor mastering etc. However some Hi Res recordings are superb one exampe being Bob Marley - Legend.

I have money invested in my Vinyl front end and that is my main listening source, with digital very close behind and ALAC files through my Rega DAC are very good, in all honesty the extra cost of Hi-Res audio doesnt justify itself to me. I do own 4/5 Hi Res Albums - I have them on vinyl too and prefer the vinyl.

If HI Res audio was a bit cheaper and more accesible then I would be a taker, You can see why Apple won't go Hi Res - they wouldn't make a profit from it as its still very niche.

I still search and download any free Hi Res stuff just to try it out - I have been lucky on occasions!

Also on my pursuit of the best sound from my hifi eventually led me to vinyl but I dont want to start a vinyl vs digital debate, I have & enjoy both!

 

[wilro15]

I'm using a Mac Mini running iTunes with most music encoded as Apple Lossless. The mini connects via HDMI to a Marantz AV receiver (NR1602) which has a DAC due to it being a receiver. The receiver then has speaker connections as usual.

I leave the mini switched on all the time (I had problems with it waking from sleep properly).

When I want to listen to music I just turn on the Marantz then use the Apple Remote app on my iPhone and choose the music to play.

Simples.

(no HD audio at the moment admittedly)

 

[MajorFubar]

If HI Res audio was a bit cheaper

It's not really expensive though, is it? We paid £12/£13 for chart CDs 20 years ago, and when premium-selling LPs were about £4.99 in the 70s that'd be about thirty quid now.

and more accesible

With you 200% on that one. I want to buy The Next Day on 24/96 and I find I can't legally do so in the UK. Then in the next breath the BPI is forcing UK ISPs to block the IPs of peer-to-peer sharing sites because illegal downloads are apparently killing the industry. The words 'stuck between', 'rock' and 'hard place' spring to mind.