The practicalities of demoing

[Dan Turner]

I'm not sure if anyone else has this problem, or if there is a particular scarcity of decent dealers near me, but I'm looking for new speakers to go with my Naim SuperNait and having done my research and decided on a number of models to try, I've had a look at where these are distributed and it seems that I might only be able to try 2 or at best 3 models at home.

The models I've decided I would like to try are (in priority order) Neat Momentum 3i, ATC SCM 19, Spendor A6, Proac Response D2, Proac Response D18. It would also be great to try some things at a higher price point - KEF Reference 201/2, B&W 805D.

The problem is that speakers of all things need to be tried at home with your system to see what they're really like. In order to try the ATCs I would have to travel to either Bath or Guildford and take my amp with me (I live in Bournemouth), even if those dealers would let me take a pair on home demo, making trips to bath or Guidford on successive weekends is pretty difficult - if they would even let me keep them for a whole week. It's much the same story with Neat, although If i went to Guidford for a demo at least I wouldn't have to lug my amp to that particular dealer

The only models that I am confident that I can demo at home (as they are available through my one decent local dealer) are the Proac models and the Spendors (which they don't stock, but a sister store does, so they should be able to get them for me).

How do other people manage to demo a decent range of products? Is demoing at home an unrealistic expectation?

I don't like the idea of being constrained by what just one dealer has available, but how are you supposed to invest £2k in a pair of speakers without trying them at home?!

 

[Anonymous]

I found two speakers that I thought I'd be happy with, went to audition them about an hour away, they'd just got a third speaker in so I tried that too. I loved them all but the Spendor the most, so ordered a pair. Took about five hours. There's always the temptation to try everything but I settled for what I thought served the purpose very well. Yes I could have driven for hours to try ATC and Harbeth but I wasn't prepared to spend hundreds on fuel and hours of time overcomplicating things. I guess it would have been a different story had I disliked any of the speakers I tried.

The answer is that there's no easy way. You need to decide how many weeks or months (and tens of pounds) you want to spend to satisfy a functional requirement.

 

[chebby]

They do exactly what you have described (travel all over the place) and try and remember from week-to-week what last weekend's lot sounded like in the other dealers.

Gets worse if you want to compare with speakers from an online manufacturer, because you have to buy them, then wait a number of weeks for delivery, then let them run-in a bit, then compare with other speakers, and then hope you have not exhausted their returns period policy if you decide after all that you don't like them

(Then wait a bit longer for your money to be credited back to you minus any 're-packing' charges you may have incurred and postage.)

It's a game isn't it?

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with Igglebert, think you should narrow it down to 3 models, i think that after about 10 mins you should be happy with the difference in the sound. I stay just outside Glasgow and know a few good guys who own hi-fi shops from standard range equipment to very high end luxury, have listened to systems costing up to £200,000, hydraulic equipment stands, speakers at £40,000 etc. It all depends on how they sound in your listening room, what time of day you listen, what mood your in, etc. Narrow it down to 4 or 3 speakers then you should be happy. By the way i love the Spendor A6, but don,t think they are worth the recommended retail price.

 

[Dan Turner]

Thanks guys. From reading the Hi-Fi press you'd think that you're a fool not to try every half-decently rated model at your chosen price point and that if you do anything less then the most synergistic match with your other kit and room might elude you. But it seems that most people have to accept the practicalities in the real world and limit their auditioning to just 2 or 3 models. So looks like it will probably be between Proac and Spendor!

 

[floyd droid]

Dan Turner: Is demoing at home an unrealistic expectation?

It is when the dealer isnt willing to gamble 30 quids worth of courier charges on the strength of you may buy them from him after a dem with your own gear at home. Tight as a ducks most of them. Speculate to accumulate, nah not on your life. But there are dealers out there willing to do it. Its a case of hanging up and moving on to the next one if you get a negative to your request.

 

[Anonymous]

Demo'ing is as long as you want to make the process. I try and listen to stuff as often as i can for fun, but at the back of my mind I'm building a shortlist.

A good dealer will have picked a selection of brands that they believe give enough choice and their own commercial realities. So having more than one dealer is always a good idea and listening to them in their demo rooms should help this focus.

I'm also honest with myself and consider what brands "I like".

You then buy them, and if they don't sound right at home - take them back. Simples!

 

[Frank Harvey]

floyd droid:It is when the dealer isnt willing to gamble 30 quids worth of courier charges on the strength of you may buy them from him after a dem with your own gear at home. Tight as a ducks most of them. Speculate to accumulate, nah not on your life. But there are dealers out there willing to do it. Its a case of hanging up and moving on to the next one if you get a negative to your request.

The problem here is that there's a lot of fraud about. I know that probably sounds bad, but if dealers were to open themselves up like that, they're a target for anyone and everyone. It's fine when it's a regular customer because you know there's no security issues, but there's a lot of devious people out there.....

 

[floyd droid]

Yes i guess you have made a valid point there. And if you have been caught out in the past then its bound to stop you sending things out for demmo. But lets be honest here asking folk to make a decision on , oh i dunno, lets say a 5K pair of speakers, in a demmo room, is a big ask in my opinion. Although some will go ahead and buy, then get home and whoops !.

I certainly have not, and would never, do that with any piece of kit. As i have said, there are dealers who will send out for home dem, and thats who i use.

 

[Anonymous]

johnnyjazz:By the way i love the Spendor A6, but don,t think they are worth the recommended retail price.

I think that of virtually all hifi on the market. How much?!

 

[Frank Harvey]

It is a shame you live on the coast.

With the vast amount of speakers that are out there, we recognised that there were very few places you could go and listen to a wide range of speakers under one roof. This is something we've addressed over the past few years, listening to what people want to audition, getting the accounts, and by trial and error, finding out which models sell and which don't. What we've done has been helped by growing awareness via forums and other marketing.

Dan - of your list we have 4 models in store, with 2 of the others available with a bit of notice. I assume that's not too bad by the sounds of it then?

Obviously home demos is a bit more of an issue, but that's your fault for living in the deep South - we have situated ourselves centrally

 

[Frank Harvey]

johnnyjazz:By the way i love the Spendor A6, but don,t think they are worth the recommended retail price.But, they're definitely worth the extra over the A5's.....

 

[Anonymous]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
It is a shame you live on the coast.

With the vast amount of speakers that are out there, we recognised that there were very few places you could go and listen to a wide range of speakers under one roof. This is something we've addressed over the past few years, listening to what people want to audition, getting the accounts, and by trial and error, finding out which models sell and which don't. What we've done has been helped by growing awareness via forums and other marketing.

Dan - of your list we have 4 models in store, with 2 of the others available with a bit of notice. I assume that's not too bad by the sounds of it then?

Obviously home demos is a bit more of an issue, but that's your fault for living in the deep South - we have situated ourselves centrally

Now that's an offer worth travelling for.

 

[Anonymous]

Igglebert the A6 are approx £2000, David, yes i agree they are worth the extra over the smaller A5 and i really love them, sound fantastic and i have no complaints whatsoever. I just think that £2000 is a lot to pay when you break down the materials and cabinet construction, also just silly little things that annoy me like exposed hex heads holding on driver surrounds, could have spent a bit more and countersunk flush, bottom base is painted mdf, could have used anodised ally at no extra cost, back panel from top to bottom is not flush with side walls etc. I,m just so used to making bespoke one off structures myself that i probably expect too much from a large manufacturer.

 

[Anonymous]

johnnyjazz:Igglebert the A6 are approx £2000, David, yes i agree they are worth the extra over the smaller A5 and i really love them, sound fantastic and i have no complaints whatsoever. I just think that £2000 is a lot to pay when you break down the materials and cabinet construction, also just silly little things that annoy me like exposed hex heads holding on driver surrounds, could have spent a bit more and countersunk flush, bottom base is painted mdf, could have used anodised ally at no extra cost, back panel from top to bottom is not flush with side walls etc. I,m just so used to making bespoke one off structures myself that i probably expect too much from a large manufacturer.
Thanks Johnny, I know the cost but was merely stating my reaction to most kit on the market! I agree with you but without understanding the business and their costs I can't comment on whether they're priced over the odds or not. We both have Spendor speakers so I guess we've made a statement to the company that the price is acceptable.

 

[Anonymous]

I supplied and fitted some stainless steel overlay panels for the hi-fi shop, deducted the cost and paid £500 for the speakers, so am very pleased with them

Could have done the same with b&w 804, pmc, dynaudio etc, but liked the A6 to any speaker i auditioned.

 

[Anonymous]

johnnyjazz:I paid £500 for mine

Crikey! I paid £1.1k for mine so I've beaten the current price. What a superb pair of speakers you have for £500!!

 

[Frank Harvey]

johnnyjazz:Igglebert the A6 are approx £2000, David, yes i agree they are worth the extra over the smaller A5 and i really love them, sound fantastic and i have no complaints whatsoever. I just think that £2000 is a lot to pay when you break down the materials and cabinet construction......

I think that can be directed at any speaker. There's more to the material cost of any speaker - cobbling together some drive units in a box does not a good speaker make! But one thing I will say is that there is a lot of competition at the £2k mark. Some manufacturers will put a little more into the finish and look of the speaker, others will make a basic box and concentrate on driver quality - either way, there's only so much that can be done at specific price points.

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with you David, first and foremost it should sound good ( it is a loudspeaker after all ) but i think that the big manufacturers should take a leaf out of Sonus Fabers book on cabinet design and construction, a monitor that not only sounds fantastic but can be part of the furniture for as long as you want it to be. Give the customer an option and not one that is "what colour of thin veneer would you like slapped on the mdf sir ?"

 

[Frank Harvey]

Intricate cabinet design costs money, and many speaker manufacturers would prefer to produce something a little simpler and quicker to produce in order to meet their more popular demand. Smaller, more specialised manufacturers who sell less can afford to take longer to manufacture their products.

 

[Dan Turner]

FrankHarveyHiFi:
It is a shame you live on the coast.

With the vast amount of speakers that are out there, we recognised that there were very few places you could go and listen to a wide range of speakers under one roof. This is something we've addressed over the past few years, listening to what people want to audition, getting the accounts, and by trial and error, finding out which models sell and which don't. What we've done has been helped by growing awareness via forums and other marketing.

Dan - of your list we have 4 models in store, with 2 of the others available with a bit of notice. I assume that's not too bad by the sounds of it then?

Obviously home demos is a bit more of an issue, but that's your fault for living in the deep South - we have situated ourselves centrally

Mmm 3 hour drive... Do you stock Naim or would I have to bring my amp with me? What models do you have? If I'm enticing you to break a forum rule or anything then tell me and I'll look up the store number and call you.

You have a better range than most that's for sure, but I just can't help thinking that of all things a speaker absolutely has to be heard ain the room it's going to be used in, especially when spending £2k.

My local dealer is good and will let me demo at home - he has the Proac models I was interested in and can get hold of the Spendor. The limited number of my shortlist that he has is a bit annoying, but I'm grateful for the home demo service.

As regards the potential for fraud that was mentioned - when providing a home demo, my dealer takes a card payment to cover the cost and then refunds it when the item is returned - I wouldn't expect anything else! Surely that provides adequate security for any dealer? Although I can imagine that where distances are involved, then the physical risk in couriering, and the times that the item will be out of the show-room and therefore not available for any walk-in customers might be an issue.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Sorry Dan, got a little busy there....

Yes, we stock Naim, and the SuperNait is always plugged in and ready to go. With known locals, we'll let items go without a card payment, but we are a little more careful with people we don't know as we have loaned stuff out before and items have come back with some marks on. The pitfalls are surprisngly numerous, which I won't mention here as it'll give people ideas!

With the range we have, we usually recommend narrowing the choice down in store, then people can try stuff at home.

 

[bretty]

Where I live, the couple of hi-fi dealers that are here (new, not second-hand) offer home demos, but you pay for the item you're taking home by card, when you bring it back (if you're not happy with it) your card gets refunded. Therefore, no risk to the retailer. I take it they don't all work on this principle.

EDIT: Dan just covered this. I love to repeat people. It's a disease.

 

[Minigill]

Dan Turner

I was in the same position as you, living a bit round the corner from you on the south coast. I couldn't find a dealer that had a good selection in one shop, so I ended up with a 3 hour drive for a demo!

Well worth it as it threw up some other brands which I had not considered.

 

[Anonymous]

There's Audio-T in Chandler's Ford, Sevenoaks in Soton and (my favourite) Salisbury HiFi in - well, the name says it all.