The Naim 10 year plan...

[admin_exported]

I have been wanting to upgrade my current Hi-Fi setup (see my sig below) for some time now and Naim kit has caught my eye. I am a sucker for aesthetics but at that price point, it needs to sound bloody good to justify the outlay! Last weekend, I went to Lintone Audio in Gateshead to have a look at some higher end kit than is available in any shops in Newcastle, which is my usual hunting ground. I must say, it's nice to finally see kit in the flesh after having seen umpteen pictures and reviews online and in the mag.

Before the visit, I already had a couple of setups in mind:

Option 1) Naim Uniti partnered with suitable speakers

Option 2) Naim NDX, NAP200, NAC202, DAC, again partnered with suitable speakers

For the speakers, I would love a pair of B&W 804D's, but from peoples reviews on here of partnering speakers with Naim kit, I understand that I may get a better match with a pair of PMC or Neat speakers.

Onto the visit... Something that was pointed out very early on was the difference in finish on the different Naim models. The "brushed and black anodised" finish is much nicer than the "powder coated" finish on the front panel and is one factor that makes me inclined to go for option 2. My visit was not a pre-booked one, so I didn't know if I would actually get to listen to anything, but was happy when the offer was made to try the NDX which they already had set up in their demo room. It was partnered with a Cyrus pre-amp and Cyrus mono blocks and a pair of PMC IB2i's. What a sound! This is what I am missing from my Hi-Fi!

I will be the first to admit that my ears are perhaps not the best at picking up subtle differences with music, part of this I believe being down to a short term memory when it comes to recognising differences. I think what I really need is a side by side comparison to make a proper comparisson. One thing I did notice however is that the volume was up much higher than I would normally have my system and I thought that maybe I would get much more excited about music on my system if I was less conservative with the volume... I would love to turn it up, but being that I live in an end terraced house, I can't really crank it up as much as I would like. After listening to a couple of tracks on the System in Lintone Audio, the volume was turned down so we could talk, and the system then really didn't sound like anything special. You certainly wouldn't know that it was £20K worth of kit from listening at a low volume!

So where do I go from here??? I had already decided before my visit that the Uniti isn't for me. I like having lots of boxes with lots of inputs and the ability to change/upgrade one component rather than the whole system. Option 2 is about £6K more than option 1 and brings me to the subject of the post. I cannot afford £8.5K of Naim kit plus the cost of speakers all in one go, so based on current earnings, it would take me about 10 years to gradually build the system, with 1 component every couple of years. This should also satisfy my upgraditis for far longer than if I bought the Uniti.

I will at some point be booking a proper demo at Lintone Audio as suggested by David (the guy who served me), and when I do, I'll take my speakers, CDP & amp so that I can make a more informed decision as to whether the upgrade really is worth the outlay, and also the order in which to upgrade my components. I have little interest in CDs so my CDP will be quite high on the list of components to change (for the NDX). I am hoping that my speakers will hold out for a few years to come as they may well be the last thing I change. I do need to decide fairly early on though if I am going to change the speakers as I have 4 floorstanders and a centre speaker, 3 of these are in the loft, unused, so if I am going to sell them, I can use them towards funding of new speakers, or the NDX, whichever I decide to buy first...

Here come the questions...

1) What would people suggest I upgrade first: CDP, amp or speakers?

2) Is there anything else I should consider instead of the kit mentioned in option 2?

3) Am I correct in thinking that (generally speaking) £3500 spent on a pre/power amp combo will be better than the equivalent price on an integrated amp?

4) What speakers would people advise I buy?

I would also be wanting to have an AV system that has similar sound quality as my Hi-Fi setup. The NAP V175 seems Ideal as it would power 3 of the 5 channels of an AV setup and the NAP 200 would power the front L+R. I would need a suitable "AV pre-amp" for this setup. What should I consider as a pre-amp to partner with the Naim kit?

Thanks to all who have continued reading through this rather long post, and thanks in advance to any who reply with comments or suggestions.

 

[True Blue]

Glad you had a nice time

If I were you then book an audition to hear the Unitiqute with some PMC DB1i,s, if nice this I would suggest is your route in you can then (as funds permit), buy a power amp, seperate pre amp, a power supply for the pre, the dac, a power supply for the dac then the NDX.......................................then a power supply for the NDX...........

Only joking, personally I think you will be quite impressed with the unitiqute and PMC DB1i's (or the GB1i's) if funds permit. Then enjoy.

 

[Anonymous]

i think you should focus more on the speakers as they will make the most difference, and £3.5k is alot to be considering spending on amplification imo, a good stereo integrated for around £1500 would be what i'd buy, and the other £2k could go towards the speakers, in fact, do you really need to spend more than £2k on speakers? the increments in sound quality will be very small in comparison to the outlay as you go up the cost ladder imo...

 

[noogle]

For option (2) you don't need an NDX and a DAC - the NDX has a built-in DAC. I'd go for a PC/Laptop or a streamer driving a NaimDAC instead of an NDX - cheaper and more flexible.

Consider buying second-hand - Naim kit keeps its value well and in my experience is easy to resell.

Also (am I allowed to say this?) - try posting on the manufacturer's forum - although the level of religious zealotry there can be a little high at times...

 

[plastic penguin]

Concur with True Blue. Given you had trouble hearing a difference bwtween hi-end and entry-level, I would suggest listening to Uniti which is as future proof as one can get. Don't dismiss other makes, either, around the various price brackets.

If Lintone are worth their sorts they shouldn't object to a home demo.

Still unable to tell the difference after a home dem go with the cheaper models. No point in spending money on a product that has no or little benefit.

 

[lindsayt]

Interesting points about the volume levels at the demo.

The demo is for your benefit. It's not there for the entertainment of the dealer. Take control and set the volume to your normal listening levels.

Also if kit doesn't sound good at low volume levels, then it's not kit that I'd buy - as this indicates compression / lack of resolving ability.

I think that Naim amps are good as bass amps. As midrange and treble amps I find them too synthetic sounding - when compared with a decent SET valve amp. For a Naimey type solid state amp, I'd go for an Avondale amp: better sound for less money.

For a CD source I'd use a passive pre-amp (stepped attenuator or LDR) straight into an active crossover or power amp. Less is more.

£3500 is enough to buy you an entire system that will sound better than a £50,000+ all Naim system. And it's not that Naim kit is bad. It's just that it's breath-takingly expensive when you get to NAP 200 level and beyond.

Speakers are a very personal thing. I like electrostatics, horns or large sealed boxes.

 

[Anonymous]

Given you had trouble hearing a difference bwtween hi-end and entry-level, I would suggest listening to Uniti which is as future proof as one can get.

I wouldn't say I couldn't hear a difference, what I would say is that there were too many variables to make a proper decision. I didn't listen to the setup in question at my usual listening volume, nor have I listened to my setup at the volumes heard on the one at Lintone.
As for the Uniti/Uniti Qute as suggested, my reasoning for going for option 2 is as follows:
I need more inputs than are available on the Uniti/Uniti Qute
I prefer seperates to an all in one system (greater flexibility & easier to upgrade)
I would feel inclined to go down the path as mentioned by True Blue if I went for the Uniti Qute, which then makes it more worthwhile chosing option 2 in the first place
I will be going for a proper audition of all of the mentioned and I may well go for the Qute after all. As I said above, I do need more inputs than are available on the Qute, but this could be solved with the purchase of an AV amp. This of course would be much cheaper than option 2... Ahh, decisions decisions...

 

[Frank Harvey]

If you listen to any system for a certain length of time at high volumes, it's always going to sound disappointing when you move down to low volume. When auditioning, you should always do your low volume listening first - either that, or listen at higher volumes, have a 10 minute break, then listen at lower volumes.

The difference between budget and high end kit is immense, and it still shines through at low volumes too. The 'law of diminishing returns' is certainly a factor, but it doesn't play as big a part as some people think.

 

[plastic penguin]

If you listen to any system for a certain length of time at high volumes, it's always going to sound disappointing when you move down to low volume. When auditioning, you should always do your low volume listening first - either that, or listen at higher volumes, have a 10 minute break, then listen at lower volumes. The difference between budget and high end kit is immense, and it still shines through at low volumes too. The 'law of diminishing returns' is certainly a factor, but it doesn't play as big a part as some people think.

That's certainly true. There is a big difference, but not everyone hears it. Mrs. p can't hear the difference (not much anyway) between her mini system and my current set-up, until I point the differences out.

 

[jaxwired]

Regarding high volume listening, often budget kit becomes shrill and unpleasant beyond a modest volume. One of the great things about the best gear is that it doesn't change it's tonal character as you crank up the volume making it possible to listen louder longer without any distress.

 

[Anonymous]

As I said before, I was very impressed with the sound at a high volume. I did realise however that as I had not heard the sstem at my "normal" listening volume, I really couldn't make a comparison to my current system.

I have been looking some more at the Uniti Qute as suggested, and trying to figure out how I would integrate it into the kit I already have (blu-ray, X-box, V+HD etc). I think I would get away with it although I still need to do a bit of thinking as to how I would add further kit in the future (AV amp, power amp etc)

Will ty and figure it all out later, have to go to work for now...

 

[True Blue]

As I said before, I was very impressed with the sound at a high volume. I did realise however that as I had not heard the sstem at my "normal" listening volume, I really couldn't make a comparison to my current system.

I have been looking some more at the Uniti Qute as suggested, and trying to figure out how I would integrate it into the kit I already have (blu-ray, X-box, V+HD etc). I think I would get away with it although I still need to do a bit of thinking as to how I would add further kit in the future (AV amp, power amp etc)

Will ty and figure it all out later, have to go to work for now...

Digital Inputs 5 SPDIF (2 optical, 2 coaxial, 1 digital/analogue with 3.5mm jack) - That should do you I think for all of the above.

Do you really want to integrate the 2 channel and the surround system? Or would high quality stereo suffice for the V+ etc etc.

 

[True Blue]

Also I am aware of another user on the manufacturers website (fixedwheel is his tag, mine is the same true Blue) runs a qute into a 202 / 200 combo to good results so you have the option there for additional boxes if you wish. Good upgrade potential and eventually you could get the NDX (or whatever has been released) to replace the qute

 

[chebby]

... runs a qute into a 202 / 200 combo to good results...

Can't the 'Qute be connected directly to a Naim power amp - via a pre-out connection - and be both pre-amp and source? (When/if the OP decides to make the first upgrade.)

It would take the 'sting' out of having to get both pre and power amp in one hit.

 

[True Blue]

Yes it can. Strangly though that naim has fitted these as RCA.................

 

[Anonymous]

... runs a qute into a 202 / 200 combo to good results...

Can't the 'Qute be connected directly to a Naim power amp - via a pre-out connection - and be both pre-amp and source? (When/if the OP decides to make the first upgrade.)

It would take the 'sting' out of having to get both pre and power amp in one hit.

That's what I was hoping to be able to do. The Qute does seem like a very good base unit for entry into the world of Naim. I may well end up with the system in Option 2 in a few years time, or I may realise that I simply don't need to go that far. I do want a surround system, really just for blu-rays, so I will want to be able to combine my hi-fi with an AV amp.