subwoofers for stereo music...

[admin_exported]

im wondering if a sub will enhance music playback through my ma br5s , at the moment im using a sony bluray player to play cds through a yamaha rxv765 , ill be adding a sub , centre and sats in time ,

i was going to get a marantz cd6003 at the weekend , as im playing cds far more than watching movies lately , but now im wondering would i be better off getting a sub , and getting the cd player when money allows ,

does anyone have any views on which upgrade will enhance my music more in the short term ? sub or cd player ? thanks...

 

[ear]

none.for music you will be ok with speakers only.as for the Cd player it will be good with a stereo amp.sub will be better for movies.explosions for example.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks ear , i understand the need for a sub for movies , so are you saying that i shouldnt use the sub when playing music ?

 

[ear]

with those speakers no need for it.

 

[Anonymous]

ah ok , yes they are quite bassy , ive moved them around a bit , further away from the wall , and now they sound better , not at all boomy , just nice tight bass , thanks ear , ill get the cd player then , and the sub later

 

[ear]

if you priority is music...

but i dont know if you will get much better sound because of the Av amp.I use my dvd player to hear cds and I find it great.

 

[MattSPL]

It depends which area's of the sound you would like to improve on first.

I use a sub with my speakers and have done with every pair ive owned except some big PMC IB1's. I couldn't afford a sub big enough to underpin them

When looking for a sub, be aware of how low the upper frequency cut off can be set. An active sub has a frequency dial, sometimes adjustable from 30hz to 120hz, 40hz to 120hz or sometimes lower like 16hz to 99hz.

Im on my 3rd active sub(Rel Strata 5), its frequency can be set between 16hz and 99hz, so depending on your room and how big/small your speakers are, will depend on how you set it up.

My previous sub's were a monitor audio ASW100(lowest frequency position of 40hz)
And a Rel Q201e(lowest frequency position of 26hz)
I always found that, even using standmount speakers, you couldn't set the frequency of the sub low enough to intergrate with the speakers properly due to the filtering and 12db per octave crossovers used in the sub's.
They always play frequencies way above the supposed limit you have set the dial to.

You end up having to turn the sub's volume down so low to intergrate that it doesn't produce the lowest frequencies properly.
If your using the sub for home cinema purposes, this isn't an issue as you usually set the sub up at the suggested 80hz to make the most of big action movies.

But with music, you want it to be subtle. The sub should not produce bass that the speakers already produce. Bass should not sound louder with the sub on. The music should sound exactly the same, except when really deep bass is called for it will be produced as if by the speakers when setup correctly.

A test cd with frequency tones is vital to set up correctly and some people find a sound level meter useful.

With my previous speakers(pmc db1i), i had my sub set at 20hz
with my ATC scm19's, i have the sub set at 16hz to intergrate properly. You never hear the sub as such, but play music with deep bass, then turn the sub off and play again and you will notice whats missing.

 

[Anonymous]

ah , very interesting matt , thanks , im looking at getting the sub that comes with the monitor audio bronze speaker package , e300 from munstersounds , do you think this will suffice seeing as i have the bigger br5s as fronts (sats and centre to be added when money allows)?? ta..

 

[MattSPL]

Personally, i would advise against it for music only.

When i had my monitor audio sub, i had monitor audio bronze 2's and found that the sub's frequency couldn't be set low enough to intergrate with music. It worked, but the volume was so low on the sub, it was barely doing anything.

I then bought the Rel Q201e which worked much better but then found the front firing driver to be a problem. You could hear which direction the bass was coming from.

So i found a used Rel Strata 5 which has a downward firing driver and much more user friendly adjustment's.

Everybody will feel different ways about makes of sub's and using them with music.
I feel that only Rel and Mj Acoustics make sub's properly designed for music.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks again , actually , ear has suggested a different brand of sub on another thread , also reccomending a downward firer , as things stand im going to leave the sub till last , ill get a centre and rears next , would you have any opinion on what rears i could use matt ? ear is suggesting oli 2s , but i had took it for granted id be going with ma ? thanks...

 

[MattSPL]

Yeah probably work better to sort everything else before the sub. Its only if you listen to music with lots of sub 30hz bass that you'd be in a rush to buy one.

Also, a good sub capable of supporting a pair of speakers can often cost as much or more than the speakers themselves. If its to work properly with purely music, it has to be a good one.

I can't help with surround speakers im afraid as im not well up on that end of things. But i believe that having the same make speakers can help with a more balanced sound.

 

[ear]

the last post is also true.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks again folks , br1s it is then (probably) , and ill get the sub last , after a good chat on here of course

 

[Anonymous]

If you listen to music a lot, certainly look to invest in a proper Stereo Amp & CD Player. Get the system synergy right between these 2 and your speakers, and you'll really hear why AV amps arent called 'All-Round' Amps

If you decide to look into this, make sure your amp and CD player compliment the ability of your speakers, and you also have enough power/current to power your speakers to the loudness you need. Then obviously look at What Hifis video on system setup, make sure you have things like positioning of speakers etc all sorted.The bass improves no end. If not, in my experience, something is wrong or there is something limiting in the room setup/dimensions

 

[Andrew Everard]

I've used subs with stereo speakers and AV systems for as long as I can remember. Currently using PMC OB1s plus a TLE1 sub, and even with speakers of that size the sub has something extra to contribute.

 

[matengawhat]

i wouldn't be without my sub for music listening - i never turn it off!

Add real depth to the overall sound not just bass as many ppl think

 

[Frank Harvey]

maxflinn:ah , very interesting matt , thanks , im looking at getting the sub that comes with the monitor audio bronze speaker package , e300 from munstersounds , do you think this will suffice seeing as i have the bigger br5s as fronts (sats and centre to be added when money allows)?? ta..

E300? Can't see that on their site, but the matching Bronze sub is the BRW10. They also have some products from MA that are 'add to basket', which are prohibited from mail order, so make sure they're a genuine MA dealer. If they're not, you may not get a warranty, if they are, they're breaking their dealer agreement. Just worth checking.

 

[Andrew Everard]

I think he meant that the price is ?300...

And yes, Munster Sounds is a Monitor Audio Platinum dealer. Is there perhaps a different agreement with dealers in Ireland to that pertaining in the UK?

 

[RCduck7]

If you want to use a sub with stereo speakers that go down to 50 Hz for example you can add a sub and set the cut off frequencie slightly above that, about 55 Hz should be good (It was also described in my Yamaha manual of the sub that way). Then try some music and see if the volume needs adjusting on the sub. My speakers go down to 35 Hz, even a bit lower from what i measured but not as loud anymore that low. Even if my speakers go reasonably low, i find subtle use of the sub for under 40hz made it a nod better if care was taken not to overpower the bass.

That said, i'm not sure that adding a sub for frequencies that the speakers can do to create MORE bass is the right thing to do, then i suggest you might need more powerfull speakers or maybe different placement of the speakers in the room.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Andrew Everard: I think he meant that the price is ?300...Aaaah, E300. Sorry, I'm British, I don't do Euro. Back off Brussels!!

And yes, Munster Sounds is a Monitor Audio Platinum dealer. Is there perhaps a different agreement with dealers in Ireland to that pertaining in the UK? Gold and RX is also prohibited. I wouldn't have thought Ireland would be any different, as far as I know they follow the same rules as the rest of us, being in the UK. But might be worth checking.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Ireland is in the UK? News to me...

 

[Frank Harvey]

Oh yeah. I took History so I didn't have to do Geography.

EDITED BY MODS - House Rule 11.

 

[MattSPL]

RCduck7:
If you want to use a sub with stereo speakers that go down to 50 Hz for example you can add a sub and set the cut off frequencie slightly above that, about 55 Hz should be good (It was also described in my Yamaha manual of the sub that way). Then try some music and see if the volume needs adjusting on the sub. My speakers go down to 35 Hz, even a bit lower from what i measured but not as loud anymore that low. Even if my speakers go reasonably low, i find subtle use of the sub for under 40hz made it a nod better if care was taken not to overpower the bass.

That said, i'm not sure that adding a sub for frequencies that the speakers can do to create MORE bass is the right thing to do, then i suggest you might need more powerfull speakers or maybe different placement of the speakers in the room.

Although a speaker's lower frequency specification may be, say 54hz like my scm19's, this doesn't mean you set the sub at or near that frequency.

Every speaker performs differently depending on the room its placed in etc.

You need a test cd with low frequency tones to determine how low your speakers go in your room.

My scm19's will play a 25hz tone in my room. I have my Rel sub set at 16hz because of the nature of the 12db per octave crossover, it outputs sound above 16hz at a progressively lower volume level.

 

[RCduck7]

MattSPL:RCduck7:

If you want to use a sub with stereo speakers that go down to 50 Hz for example you can add a sub and set the cut off frequencie slightly above that, about 55 Hz should be good (It was also described in my Yamaha manual of the sub that way). Then try some music and see if the volume needs adjusting on the sub. My speakers go down to 35 Hz, even a bit lower from what i measured but not as loud anymore that low. Even if my speakers go reasonably low, i find subtle use of the sub for under 40hz made it a nod better if care was taken not to overpower the bass.

That said, i'm not sure that adding a sub for frequencies that the speakers can do to create MORE bass is the right thing to do, then i suggest you might need more powerfull speakers or maybe different placement of the speakers in the room.

Although a speaker's lower frequency specification may be, say 54hz like my scm19's, this doesn't mean you set the sub at or near that frequency.

Every speaker performs differently depending on the room its placed in etc.

You need a test cd with low frequency tones to determine how low your speakers go in your room.

My scm19's will play a 25hz tone in my room. I have my Rel sub set at 16hz because of the nature of the 12db per octave crossover, it outputs sound above 16hz at a progressively lower volume level.

Agreed, a test CD is the way to go, i also measured my speakers that way once, maybe i should try it again as they are now setup a bit differently. When the sub and speakers are used on totally different places wich i won't advise, especially not for music in stereo it would defenitly be appropiate to use a test CD. A sub should be near the speakers in most cases from my experience.

 

[Anonymous]

maxflinn:
im wondering if a sub will enhance music playback through my ma br5s , at the moment im using a sony bluray player to play cds through a yamaha rxv765 , ill be adding a sub , centre and sats in time ,

i was going to get a marantz cd6003 at the weekend , as im playing cds far more than watching movies lately , but now im wondering would i be better off getting a sub , and getting the cd player when money allows ,

does anyone have any views on which upgrade will enhance my music more in the short term ? sub or cd player ? thanks...

You seem to be very serious about your music. I sold a pair of BR5's just before Christmas, only because I got a new pair of RS6's for ?380. The BR5's are great speakers.. If you're buying the Marantz CD6003 from Munster Sounds at ?399.99 (price listed on their website), then I really don't think the RXV765 will do it justice musically. I was using a NAD C352 with my BR5's for stereo playback and it was a superb pairing, and compared to my Denon AV amp at the time the difference was night and day for music..You might look at picking up a C352 secondhand (?180ish), or Richersounds.ie are doing the updated version NAD C355BEE for £299.95 (reduced from £499.99). That a superb deal!! These are the best amps in this price range IMO (and nearly everyone elses). It's priced at ?599 on the Munster Sounds website. Richer Sounds are also doing the Marantz CD6003 for £250. But ring them up and you might even get a better deal, like free delivery or something..

I'm using an Arcam A85 amp and an Arcam CD192 with my RS6's and it's a fine pairing too. Monitor Audio and Arcam are always a great pairing. If you're living in the Cork area then you're more than welcome to try them out with your BR5's.