Strange bass

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Hi guys,

Had my Kef Reference Model Two's connected for a few days now and the bass seems a bit odd. I must point out that they are in an upstairs carpeted room. The problem is that I dont seem to be able to hear much bass. Its strange because if there is a deep bass note in a song I almost cant hear it yet I can feel it through the floorboards. The speakers are on spikes. Does anyone think placing granite under the speakers would help with the bass reproduction???
 
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Anonymous

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Walk from your speakers to the listening chair.

Do you hear peaks and dips in the bass?

Your chair may be in an anti-mode.
 

Craig M.

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Taylor74:
Walk from your speakers to the listening chair.

Do you hear peaks and dips in the bass?

Your chair may be in an anti-mode.

emotion-21.gif
 

AlmaataKZ

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are both speakers in phase (correct cable polarity on both channels at both speaker and amp ends)? if not, one reason can be room response as commented above.
 
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Anonymous

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The speakers are not a new model, they are from the mid 90's. They are in phase so I will have a tinker with positioning and seating position.
 
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Anonymous

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I was thinking that myself. I have been told that Chord Chorus 2 would be a good match for my system. What do you think??? I'm hoping that it isn't my amp thats lacking control over the lower frequencies... The speakers are a difficult load
 
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Anonymous

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Have you checked the condition of the bass driver surrounds (through the port) ? I don't know if Reference 2s are the same but the foam surrounds on my KEF 103/4 have disintegrated over time (mid-range driver is fine as surround is rubber rather than foam).
 

Richard Allen

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james_LR90:I was thinking that myself. I have been told that Chord Chorus 2 would be a good match for my system. What do you think??? I'm hoping that it isn't my amp thats lacking control over the lower frequencies... The speakers are a difficult load

Have you been listening to other speakers for a while?. The reason why I ask that is because the coupled cavity bass from KEFs can sound a bit 'strange' in comparison to more conventional speakers. They are very good once you get yer head round the fact that the bass is being generated differently.
 

aliEnRIK

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james_LR90:I was thinking that myself. I have been told that Chord Chorus 2 would be a good match for my system. What do you think??? I'm hoping that it isn't my amp thats lacking control over the lower frequencies... The speakers are a difficult load

The speakers do drop to under 3ohms around the 150Hz range which could mean your amps under powered for them

The chord should be fine for bass (You could get better, but youll certainly hear bass with them)

Id recommend the van damme UP LC-OFC interconnect and try with that for a couple of weeks (Takes a week or 2 to run in). Can get off ebay for about 20 quid

If no change then id say its probably that your amp isnt upto the job
 
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Anonymous

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Hi, there is no reason that the Mozart would be the issue here although the Chord may give you a slightly warmer bass, I agree with some of the other posts that it is more likely to be room related; the set-up should give you a great bass response. It does sound like a phase issue but if you have checked that try repositioning you chair or the speakers.
 
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Anonymous

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Definitely no bass issues when I use my cd player/merlin interconnect. Tighter bass than the chord crimson I used before but definitely not "strange"!
 
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Anonymous

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Ok well the Merlin has been replaced with a Cambridge Audio 900 series interconnect and the speakers are now on granite slabs and toed in ever so slightly and they are really really singing now. I know some people would question my choice of I/C but I have used CA in the past and been impressed with them for the price. The Merlin will be used in another set up when I get around to partnering my A1 as the Merlin sounded very nice with the A1.

Richard could you explain the concept of the coupled cavity system and what advantages it is supposed to bring over a conventional design. These Kefs are the first I have listened to and as you said it takes a bit of getting used to. I am really beginning to appreciate them now though and it is nice not to be listening to bass that is in your face and boomy.

I still feel as though I could do with a bit more power on the amp side of things but I am very happy with the sound for now until funds allow the addition of a power amp.

Thanks for all the input and advice guys!
 

umbucker

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If it is quite a small carpeted room you will find that the low frequency sound waves have no space to develop. I had a 5.1 system in my ond house in a huge living room and I got incredible depth from the sub woofer. In my new house this sytem is in my bedroom and I get next to no audable frequecies below around 40HZ. But like you say when I leave the room or go downstairs it shakes the house. A 40Hz sound wave is around 10 foot long so if your room has not the space for this to develop you will not hear it. You can hear it throught the floor boards party from resonance but partly because there is space for the low frequencies.
 
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Anonymous

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Interesting. I didn't know a 40Hz wave was that long! As I have said some changes have been made and I am now very happy with the sound but you've got me thinking that things would sound even better if my system was downstairs in the living room.
 

Richard Allen

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james_LR90:

Richard could you explain the concept of the coupled cavity system and what advantages it is supposed to bring over a conventional design. These Kefs are the first I have listened to and as you said it takes a bit of getting used to. I am really beginning to appreciate them now though and it is nice not to be listening to bass that is in your face and boomy.

Ok. This was a principle pioneered by Laurie Fincham at KEF back in the 80's/90's. The first loudspeaker I saw this on was the 104-2. This had two midrange and a tweeter, not a uniQ.

Essentially, you have 2 drivers and 3 enclosures. Each bass driver is mounted firing upwards and downwards into its own sealed box. The bass is then generated into the central cavity and the sound waves eminate from the port on the front. This type of design is very good if you want low crossover frequencies to the mid and you can also tune the upper and lower roll off of the bass drivers mechanically thereby simplifying the electrical crossover. I call this a double band pass enclosure. The up side is that you not only hear, but feel the bass. Try organ music where the bottom pipe is 64ft long. The down side, in my opinion, is that it can be a little "phasey" and room placement is critical. Get that right and the sound is amazing.
 
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Anonymous

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Richard Allen:

The up side is that you not only hear, but feel the bass. Try organ music where the bottom pipe is 64ft long. The down side, in my opinion, is that it can be a little "phasey" and room placement is critical. Get that right and the sound is amazing.

Ah, that's interesting, I always knew that some reviews described the bass sound of these KEFs as strange but have lived happily with our 103/4s (same loading system as Ref 2s) for about 17 years until their recent demise. I don't recall the description/mention of the "feel" aspect before, it's been a pain trying to replace the 103/4s, having gone through the usual £1500-£2500 candidates we ended up at PMC OB1i. Even then I find them lacking in the "feeling of bass" department, put Ringo's drum solo ("The End") or Phil Collins' "I Don't Care Anymore" on the KEFs and the drums would really hit you, with the OB1is (and others) it would fill the room but without the impact.

With the KEFs you could feel the slam of the drums, then of the bass guitar (with fear for internal organs!) , do any current speakers produce this kind of effect ?

tim
 
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Anonymous

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Thanks for the explaination Richard. Will Have to try some organ music.
 

Richard Allen

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armpowered:
Richard Allen:

The up side is that you not only hear, but feel the bass. Try organ music where the bottom pipe is 64ft long. The down side, in my opinion, is that it can be a little "phasey" and room placement is critical. Get that right and the sound is amazing.

Ah, that's interesting, I always knew that some reviews described the bass sound of these KEFs as strange but have lived happily with our 103/4s (same loading system as Ref 2s) for about 17 years until their recent demise. I don't recall the description/mention of the "feel" aspect before, it's been a pain trying to replace the 103/4s, having gone through the usual £1500-£2500 candidates we ended up at PMC OB1i. Even then I find them lacking in the "feeling of bass" department, put Ringo's drum solo ("The End") or Phil Collins' "I Don't Care Anymore" on the KEFs and the drums would really hit you, with the OB1is (and others) it would fill the room but without the impact.

With the KEFs you could feel the slam of the drums, then of the bass guitar (with fear for internal organs!) , do any current speakers produce this kind of effect ?

tim

The only thing I can think of is a 'properly' designed transmission line or, another KEF. This is what the coupled cavity system achieves. I think you'll find it hard to duplicate.
 

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