Speaker cable advice please

[subseastu]

Morning all.

Some help and advice please from all you wonderful people. My current system set up of 2 years consists of:

NAD CD-542 and 352 amp, Dali Royal tower speakers, Black Rhodium Jive Bi-wired speaker cable, Black Rhodium Prelude interconnect and a Atacama Equinox rack.

Now I've thought for a while that my system is on the warm side (no problems with that) but the longer I listen to it I can't help think that the low end sound lacks detail and sounds quite heavy and fuzzy. After reading the last edtion of the magazine it looks like it could be down to my Bi-wired speaker cable. It made me cringe to think of the money I'd spent on the cable and it gets a review like that. Anyway does anyone has any suggestions for a suitable cable that will bring tightness and some more detail to my low end sound. I like the idea of bi-wiring but am open to suggestions otherwise. To complicate things I have a wide taste in music that due to neighbours can't be played at overly loud volumes.

Look forward to your replies.

 

[Anonymous]

I'm not an engineer, so I can't prove one way or the other whether or not cables really make a difference to your ears - only you can do that. The engineering types seem to suggest that all that is required for speaker cables is something like high quality 10awg copper and that's it. I bought some high quality Belden 5000UP cable for peanuts and found it works extremely well with my NAD C325BEE, 515BEE and Totem Acoustic Dreamcatchers.

There are plenty of people out there who think that expensive cables simply don't justify their prices, given that you can't beat the laws of physics. On the other hand, many here swear by certain brands. To paraphrase St. Thomas Aquinas "for those that believe, no proof is necessary, and for those who do not believe, no proof could ever be sufficient".

If you do enough Googling, you will find a web site with an interesting article that makes the point that in blind tests, audiophiles couldn't tell the difference between cabling arrangements.

I did also read somewhere that people use cables almost as tone controls for their equipment. If this is the case, it implies that actually, you are unhappy with your kit, or it doesn't do what you want it to do.

 

[Anonymous]

Change your speaker cable out for a cheap but highly recommeded one or a cheap one that gives plenty of low end detail. Forget bi-wiring at this stage. (I would make sure that you replace any solid jumpers on the speakers with speaker wire for now. This is cheap to do relatively) If the sound improves to your ears then you are on the right path. If it sounds the same then you need to look elsewhere to get the sound you want.

My NAD set-up gives great crisp bass - almost too much sometimes!

 

[subseastu]

Thanks both for the replies. I've read somewhere on here about using electric wiring for cables and I suppose it does make some sense. I mean if the main thing is to try to use oxygen free copper cables the that should do the job. As long as you make solid connections then it should work and in theory it should have no effect on the signal, just produce what is fed from the amp. As long as the cable is shielded as well to isolated from interference, though this could be nominal.

I'm a bit worried about my speaker choice aswell. It sounded good in the shop but every room is different isn't it. There was not alot of information dali royal towers so it was a bit of a gamble.

I might give this electric cabling a go and take it from there. If anyone else has any ideas I'd be interested in hearing them.

 

[drummerman]

I dont know your speakers but your cdp and especially amplifier can be bettered for good firm bass. I somehow doubt your problem is entirely down to your cables. Try the usual things as per Andrew Everards advise thread at the top of the listing. Failing that start, as you rightly identified, with the 'cheapest' tweaks short of new equipment. My suggestion is to source a couple of length of cable talks old 3.1 (I think thats what it is called). A spaced OFC cable with a lot of core thickness. I've used it with my system and it compares well with some exalted ones, even today. A cheap tacima mains conditioner also has a 'side effect' of tightening bass to an extend but there could be other, not so positive issues, accompanying it depending on many factors.

Last resort if you dont want to change components, add a good small subwoofer such as MJ Acoustics Pro 50 also sold under the Ruark Vita brand on ebay for around a hundred quid. This will not give you more bass but perhaps a more delineated cleaner one.

Good luck.

 

[Big Chris]

subseastu:
Morning all.

Some help and advice please from all you wonderful people. My current system set up of 2 years consists of:

NAD CD-542 and 352 amp, Dali Royal tower speakers, Black Rhodium Jive Bi-wired speaker cable, Black Rhodium Prelude interconnect and a Atacama Equinox rack.

Now I've thought for a while that my system is on the warm side (no problems with that) but the longer I listen to it I can't help think that the low end sound lacks detail and sounds quite heavy and fuzzy. After reading the last edtion of the magazine it looks like it could be down to my Bi-wired speaker cable. It made me cringe to think of the money I'd spent on the cable and it gets a review like that. Anyway does anyone has any suggestions for a suitable cable that will bring tightness and some more detail to my low end sound. I like the idea of bi-wiring but am open to suggestions otherwise. To complicate things I have a wide taste in music that due to neighbours can't be played at overly loud volumes.

Look forward to your replies.

QED Silver Anniversary Bi-Wire sounds like just the thing you need. It'll inject some speed and clarity into your sound. It's a slightly lean cable, so would tame your leaden bottom end.

A Kimber Timbre or Silver Streak interconnect would also move your system away from bassy and dull.

 

[Anonymous]

"A cheap tacima mains conditioner also has a 'side effect' of tightening bass"

That's incredible- are you an electrical engineer or did you pick that up some where? Your recommending fixing a expensive "warm" cable (?) with a power conditioner that will remaster the bass on this dudes best of the eagles albums? Your an audio genius. 10/10.

 

[Anonymous]

Bit harsh there fella!!!

 

[John Duncan]

ryman888:
"A cheap tacima mains conditioner also has a 'side effect' of tightening bass"

That's incredible- are you an electrical engineer or did you pick that up some where? Your recommending fixing a expensive "warm" cable (?) with a power conditioner that will remaster the bass on this dudes best of the eagles albums? Your an audio genius. 10/10.

You're here to make friends then?

I quite liked The Village.

 

[JoelSim]

I'll vouch for the QED too. Is your room full of soft furnishings?

 

[Anonymous]

I agree! (with garethwd)

 

[Anonymous]

ryman888:

Your an audio genius. 10/10.

And evidently, you're an english language genius 10/10

 

[JoelSim]

thfcwestlower:ryman888:

Your an audio genius. 10/10.

And evidently, you're an english language genius 10/10

Your naughty with you're comments about English

 

[Anonymous]

Yer....and it should have been E for eagles. cheers.

It just seems that it could be down to a massive number of factors that the sound on your sytem is warm, and the diagnosis of the problem is taken on a review of speaker connect that was based solely on a listening test with a "the streets" song (just saying it's not exactly a complex timbre for an extremely subtle sound test). I don't think it's productive to recommend a load of extra rubbish based on guess work and questionable knowledge. You should audition different parts - cd player, amp, and especially the cable, to identify the problem. Then maybe put some abba on and have a glass of cream soda, or watch the village.

I think Septiman hit the nail on the head with "people use cables almost as tone controls for their equipment. If this is the case, it implies that actually, you are unhappy with your kit, or it doesn't do what you want it to do" .

[*]
http://whathifi.com/members/Septicman.aspx [/list]

 

[subseastu]

Hi all thanks for the replies (related or otherwise). I realise that my set up can be bettered for tighter bass etc but unfortunately thats all the bank (wife) would allow.

Ryman888, I understand what your saying but I don't really have a problem with the sound that the cd and amp make its just I feel I made a bit of a boob regarding the speaker cable. I do like the warm sound generated but just feel as I've said before the bottom end is lacking clarity. Its been niggling me for a while. Other comments about silver anniversary cable ring true but Its the lean top end that puts me off that cable.

Basically I know my system has limitations and I'm trying to make the best of them, I figured it would be easiest by trying to replace the speaker cable. Ideally with something I think that leans towards neutral. That just provides the music as its fed from the amp with detail and a tighter bottom end. Is this posible?

I'm thinking of even trying some solid drawn out copper cable to see if that changes anything. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Anonymous]

subseastu:

I'm thinking of even trying some solid drawn out copper cable to see if that changes anything. Any thoughts on that?

What like the stuff used by electricians for lighting circuits?

- Very cheap to try out at least.

 

[subseastu]

Something like that. If you do a google search on using copper wire for speaker cable theres a few theads on other forums. Theres a bloke in the states knocking some out called anti-cables. Basically its drawn out copper cable with thin insulating round it.He's charging 40 odd quid for length of wire with spade ends on. But there are other threads saying use 1mm poloyurathane coated wire along with silver wire! A roll of copper wire is a few quid, drawn silver wire probably goes to £50 for similar.

I just get this feeling that as someone mentioned before on this thread speaker cable affects the tonal qualities of your equipment so why not try something that is as simple and hopefully as pure as possible? What can be simpler that just wire, no spades or plugs? Thinking about it that can also be said for interconnects. Again that bloke in the states with his anti-cables does interconnects as well.

 

[Anonymous]

Certainly people like Peter Aczel of the long defunct Audio Critic had some strong views on the subject of speaker cable and interconnects. If you can find a copy of issues 15, 16 amd 17 of the mag which was published in about 1991 there are some interesting facts to be gleaned if you look past the editorial style of the journal which is a bit stilted IMHO. The nature of the cable as a circuit containing an inductor and a resistor in parallel with a capacitor is well explained. If I remember right Peter was a great advocate of 16SWG bell wire for speaker wire!

 

[subseastu]

Thanks for the info welshboy. I'm out of the UK at the moment but when I'm back I'll be trying this wire idea out. If its successful I'll post a note here. Might even try iy out on interconnects aswell if I'm feeling brave.

 

[Anonymous]

That is good stuff, cheers Welshboy.

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