Speaker advice please.

[sparks68]

Hello all

Whilst I appreciate much if not all to do with equipment and sound is subjective I would appreciate some opinions and ideas please .

I recently upgraded ? my amp and cd player. These were to replace units purhased new in 1988-89 which were:

Amplifier:

Pioneer A-117 amplifier around 35w output.

Cassete Player: Pioneer twin cassete player (long since defunct) .

Speakers :

A pair of 70 w pioneer speakers model CS-117 these are floor stand or stand mounts I think would be the term. Or v large bookshelf standing 55cm tall ,27 cm wide 22cm deep if you prefer 21"x10 1/2" x8 1/2" they are 3 ways.

I have also been using an Pioneer DVD player bought new in around 2003 to play cd's

I have an old Technics turntable kicking around to good quality at the time.I used to buy albums new, play them once recording them at the same time then re sleeving them and storing them.

So, I recently bought a new Marantz cd 6005 and used Marantz pm 6004 Amp. I connected it up and was tbh gutted , the Marantz combo sounded well "Thin" is the best way I can think of to describe it . Very clear,great detail but "Thin" .

I spoke to a couple of shops . I was assured speaker technology had come along in leaps and bounds and up to date smaller bookshelf speakers would surpass my old ones by miles.So having read the reviews I bought a set of MA Bronze BX2's . (Thank god for internet purchases and 14day return policy/law)

The BX2's lack the detail and high end sound in the treble and the base is not there either ,I'm not a bass junkie mind you but I do like to know it is there .

I'm kinda stuck now,unsure which way to go .

I think ultimately I'm looking to acheive a fuller sound than I'm getting but keeping the detail in the treble .

Has anyone with more experience of Marantz equipment an Idea of what type of speaker I should be looking at,be it new or seconed hand .What rating wattage wise also to get the best from the 45w amp and am I going to have to be looking at only 3 way speakers and forget 2 ways all together ?

 

[sparks68]

Speakers CS-557 not A-117 sorry about that .

 

[Jim-W]

From past experience, and given general availabity and price, I would recommend any of the Wharfedale Diamond range...perhaps the new ones, the Wharfedale Diamond 220 would be best. The older Diamonds worked very well with Marantz amps; you'd get a more authoratative and more sophisticated sound with the Diamonds. I think the 220's could be positioned reasonably close to a rear wall as there's a downward firing bass port. They need stands though to get the best out of them.

Q Acoustics are recommended too.

 

[Deleted member 108165]

Sorry, just replied to your other post singing the praises of the BX2 with the Marantz. Not sure what to suggest as I only have limited knowledge, but with my PM6004 the BX2's sounded great. I made some suggestions in the other post about source direct, tone controls and speaker positioning, so before you send them back experiment extensively is the only advice I can offer at the moment. What is your room size and how is it furnished?

 

[BigH]

I would try the Dali Zensor 3s, lots of fans on here and will give you more bass no doubt. But audition first if you can, they are £300. I would not look at 3 way speakers myself, certainly not at your price range.

 

[Vladimir]

Tannoy 637 Profile (also known as D70)

Tannoy 638 Profile (also known as D80)

 

[lindsayt]

Well of course the shops would say speakers have come on leaps and bounds. How are they to get a sale otherwise.

They were talking complete nonsense, as you finding out for yourself.

2nd hand is the way to go for best overall sound quality for the money.

You had a pretty decent system already. Have you compared your old Pioneer amp to the Marantz 6004 to see which you prefer the sound of?

You like your 3 way speakers. I like 3 ways too. For the bass and the treble and the midrange clarity.

I think you'd like the Yamaha NS1000 range of speakers. Goodmans Magisters and Magnums too are good on a tight budget. There are lots of other really nice second hand 3 ways that can be had for not too much money. Just make sure you always buy at the right price. A price you can sell them on for without making a loss.

The power ratings of speakers don't really tell you anything about how good they will sound. My favourite speakers are only rated at 50 watts max continuous.

If you can, try speakers that are over 93 dbs/2.83v/1m efficient. Greater efficiency tends to bring a more open, more dynamic, less shut in sound.

 

[ID.]

I think the suggestions of some 2nd hand speakers are good. They tend to have a fuller sound that many modern designs which can sound thin by comparison.

Personally thought the BX2 were OK for the price. Quite bassy and plenty of top end (potentially bright, depending on the partnering kit). Despite people often describing Marantz gear as smooth and warm, I find the budget range to sound a little thin, especially when partnered with Monitor Audio bronze series speakers. Definitely not warm. Lots of detail, tightish bass, and a little toppy. Only really like the match with the BX5, but I still wouldn't describe it as warm or full bodied.

Out of new speakers, I'd audition the Dali Zensor 3. I thought the B&W 685s2 was good, but more neutral than full bodied. Of course, much will depend on the room you have them in, etc.

 

[sparks68]

Many thanks for all your ideas and sharing of knowledge . I think I really need to do a lot more reading on the technical side of things .Exactly what the difference between many things inc Ohm rating , and what delivers what and is best for which listening situation etc . For now I will just have to keep the loudness button depressed until I can understand a bit more .I have all your ideas and recommendations to check out also .

What was supposed to be a treat (the upgrade ) has started to spoil my enjoyment .Insted of listening to the music and enjoying it I'm sat picking holes in it and criticising it all .

 

[LDTM]

I would echo what Big H and ID mentioned, if new speakers are your preference, I would audition the Dali Zensor 3. I too found the Marantz/Monitor Audio ccombination not quite to my tastes when I listened to a couple of permutations. A shop I went to recently had the 6003 hooked up to the Dalis and I was quite impressed.

As far as impedance is concerned, many of the models featured in the posts above have nominal ratings of 6ohms or more iirc so you shouldn't really need to worry too much about that, the Marantz will probably be able to drive all of them quite nicely. Sensitivity ratings will cause a significant difference in how much you have to turn the volume knob. 84dB ratings will need a higher volume setting than, say, 89dB.

One othr thing you might want to consider is how far from the wall you would like to place the speakers, if within a few inches, perhaps consider front mounted reflex ports. In any case, have fun.

 

[rainsoothe]

+1 for the Dali Zensor 3, they sound great with Marantz.

 

[sparks68]

Vladimir. I'm guessing the Tannoy's are good as I cant find any 2nd hand to look at ,people are hanging on to them.

 

[Vladimir]

Vladimir. I'm guessing the Tannoy's are good as I cant find any 2nd hand to look at ,people are hanging on to them.

Yes, it appears none are available on ebay.co.uk currently. They are quite impressive and powerfull, not that difficult to drive, budget and resell friendly. I wouldn't suffer if I owned these D500s for the next 20 years.

 

[MeanandGreen]

I have replied on your other thread, I didn't see this one until now.

I personally think it sounds like the (upgrade) was perhaps just for upgradings sake?

I think you could easily end up chasing your tail and throwing money at this just to get the sound closer to how it already was with the old kit.

I don't care what the hifi press or hifi retailers say, hifi today is no better than the kit from yesterday in sound quality. To improve over the set up you had with today's equipment you'd have to look a bit further up the ladder than the Marantz stuff you have chosen. What you are finding now is that what you have has changed the sound rather than improved it.

 

[sparks68]

Anyone know anything about these? : RUARK TALISMAN II

 

[sparks68]

Mean and green .To some extent you are right. But , I did need a new CD player and the USB is a definite plus. It seemed (and still does to some extent) to make sense to upgrade the amp to make full use of the cd player . True though I deff have not improved the sound ,that is a fact . I maybe should go back to the drawing board and look at older higher end equipment . I can't afford higher rated new.My assumption was deffinitly my old stuff being inferior ,which certainly in the case of sound quality is not the case.

 

[davedotco]

Before you throw any more money at the project, I strongly suggest that you get yourself along to a dealer, any compedent dealer, and as them to play you a 'good' system at around or preferably a bit above your budget, their choice.

Sit down play some music and see what you think. Modern systems will sound different to what you are use to, maybe it is the contrast that is troubling you. After all you have had 20 years to get 'adjusted' to the sound of your old system, a modern setup is not going to sound like your old system but better.

 

[Vladimir]

I've heard a pair of that CS series, slightly bigger than OP's model, but it was in the 90's at my neighbour's apartment. We did nice parties with those since they chuck out a good volume.

I think the new speakers have to match the Pioneers for scale, bass and full sound, but improve on details, imaging and definition. I doubt buying new budget bookshelf speakers for 300 pounds will achieve all of this. I agree with lindsayt, second hand is the smart way.

 

[sparks68]

I am now resigned to a seconed hand set of replacements .Floorstanding I think is the way to go for me . Older and good quality ,rather than used current models , that way I should get a better sound for my money. A few people here have mentioned that and it is sensible. The only rub being I can't walk into a shop and audition a range of older models .

 

[Vladimir]

I recommended those Tannoys because the surrounds on the drivers are butyl rubber. Rubber can last for 20 years without any signs of deterioration and is more desirable for second hand buys.

Speakers with foam surrounds older than 5 years may need replacing (depends on climate and humidity where they were used) and those older than 10 years will certanly need replacing. Foam surround kits are cheap, but finding a technician to make the servicing might not be that cheap.

Just a heads up.

 

[sparks68]

I think the new speakers have to match the Pioneers for scale, bass and full sound, but improve on details, imaging and definition.

I lack the vocabulary to explain what I would like to achieve, so will use Vladimir's above quote .

Whilst I am looking for replacements (floor standing I think) around £250-£300 s/h, they will be older ie not latest releases to maximise use of my budget .Are there any to definitely avoid ,be it brands in general or specific models ? TDL are attractively priced used and seem good spec within my budget .I've seen a model of Rurak's local to me that look and read well in reviews ,though pretty old now.(Though age is not a huge concern to me)

 

[BigH]

I am now resigned to a seconed hand set of replacements .Floorstanding I think is the way to go for me . Older and good quality ,rather than used current models , that way I should get a better sound for my money. A few people here have mentioned that and it is sensible. The only rub being I can't walk into a shop and audition a range of older models .

Actually there are a few used hifi dealers around, not sure about your area though.

 

[sparks68]

Lindsay , Just found a pair of those Yamaha NS1000 speakers you recommended @£725 used well out of my price range I'm afraid .

 

[Vladimir]

These look interesting. Link 1 / Link 2 / Link 3 / Link 4

No affiliation.

 

[sparks68]

Link 2 is nice and close to me . Look good in reviews to .

How would something like these compare ? : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291273512186?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT