Sound Stage - Advice please

[admin_exported]

Hello,

I am looking to buy a CD player, amp and speakers. I'd be very grateful if someone could recommend some seperates that work together to give:

1) A very impressive deep and wide sound stage, where it is easy to pick out individual instruments within the sound stage.

2) A very musical system that gets your toes tapping during upbeat music, but can also make your spine tingle.

I mostly listen to ColdPlay, Faithless, etc

Would it make a difference to the above if I go for:

1) Floorstanders or stand mount speakers?

2) A pre / power amp combination or an intergrated amp?

I aim to buy secondhand kit on eBay, and would be looking at ~ £1000 in total. I guess this equates to about £2000 new. Which kit do people recommend?

Many Thanks

Howard

 

[roger06]

Naim...

But you might struggle on that budget.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="roger06"]Naim... But you might struggle on that budget.[/quote]

Thanks Roger. Would that be Naim for all the components, including the speakers? Can you advise on the floorstanders vs stand mount question? Cheers

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="forumuser1"]
[quote user="roger06"]Naim... But you might struggle on that budget.[/quote]

Would that be Naim for all the components, including the speakers? Can you advise on the floorstanders vs stand mount question?
[/quote]

Personally, I would give Naim 'speakers a miss because they are rather pricey. Usually, standmounts give a slightly more accurate presentation (by a very, very small margin and only within product ranges) and floorstanders give a much more full bodied sound with added depth. Depends on the size of your room aswell. A pair of Monitor Audio RS2s would be great, as would be the B&W 685s. For more depth, go for the EPOS ELS303 or I managed to get a deal at Sevenoaks for a pair of Monitor Audio RS6s for just £480.

There's a big choice out there!

 

[John Duncan]

Based on recent or current eBay sales, I'd go for a Cambridge 640c v2 (100-150 depending on what day it is), a Creek A50i R that's there at the moment (currently sitting on 180 but might hit), PMC DB1s (300 quid or so). Leaves you plenty for decent stands and cables.

Not quite balanced by traditional 'source first' measures, but fantastic on imaging, from experience (though the Creek I know is a more expensive one in an otherwise identical system).

Another option I'd consider is more traditionally front-biased - an MF X-Ray v3 for about 400, X-80 or X-150 at 200 tops, go crazy on the speakers. I had Tannoy Revolutions on the end of mine, but you could go almost high end with 400 quid on eBay......

 

[Anonymous]

Marantz PM66 SE KI and CD63 KI might be a nice combination too. The PM can be had for fairly cheap, there are two nice ones on eBay.co.uk, for very reasonable prices. The CD63KI is also offered alot on eBay, wait for a decent one and snag it up for a nice price.

 

[drummerman]

So, you are willling and ready to blow a grand on ebay for second hand gear you've never auditioned on the basis of what I or others recommend to you?

Tell you what, go to currys. You got a better chance to find something that sounds decent. No insult intended mate.

You see, system matching is not easy. While it can be helpful to have suggestions from forum members they're just that, suggestions borne out of what I (they) like or have experienced in the context of our or someone elses system. You are trying to build a whole system and if you dont mind me saying so, your description of that system sounds like you cut and pasted it from a magazine without actually having an idea of what it actually means (or sounds like).

If I was asked to suggest a speaker to match component x and y to achieve a specific effect then I would try and do that provided i know what these components sound like. I could suggest many things to you but how do you KNOW if you like what I like eh?

It never stops to amaze me that people are willing to waste money in such a way.

Do yourself a favour and go to a good dealer to actually listen to some gear. Most of them stock second hand stuff usually traded in by people upgrading and often originally supplied by that dealer.

 

[Anonymous]

Yeeouch, harsh! I think Drummerman has voiced some valid points though, albeit in a fairly direct fashion. (You were joking about the Currys thing though right?)

If this is indeed your first foray into hi fi, you might be safer steering clear of ebay, and as Drummerman says checking out some local dealers who do second hand traded in / ex-display stuff. Don't discount new, either. If you're buying amp / speakers / CD together, there are some good "package" deals around, or you may be able to haggle a bit. Even new you can get a lot of sound for your budget of a grand.

 

[John Duncan]

I think 'system matching' is over-rated nowadays, tbh. Spending a grand on a random selection of well-rated components on eBay (with emphasis on the speakers and amp, no, really) will give you a better (and I don't mean a little bit) sound than anything you'll buy in Currys. In fact, this has got me thinking about the nature of "high fidelity". I feel a new thread coming on.

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks to everyone who replied.

Back in '96 I bought a system for £1000 new: Rotel RCD930, Arcam Alpha 5+, B&W 601s. This appealed to me because of its wide sound stage and musicality.

So the "cut and paste" comment wasn't called for.

The old system was good but could get very muddled when pushed. I had to offload the system a few years back so I'm now looking to improve on what I had before. By buying second hand, I hope to get a better quality system than I had before.

Yes, I could buy second hand from a dealer. However, my local dealer has only got a couple of used items for sale. He may be able to cobble together a complete system - but who is to say that would sound any good? I may have to wait months before he has enough used stock to complete a system that I can audition.

There's enourmous choice on eBay. Thanks to the people for their suggestions on where I can focus my attention. Even if I have to swap out a component in the future, I can resell it on eBay and I'll probably get what I paid for it.

Howard

 

[John Duncan]

Exactly. Can I give you my reasoning for my suggested unbalanced system though, just FYI?

I can only speak for myself, but in my experience, it's harder to make a transparent amp or speaker than it is to make a CD player equally so, so you have to spend proportionately more to get obvious (to me) leaps in a CD player's performance. When upgrading my kit (from my old JVC/Arcam/AR setup), I started off with the "source first" theory, in the case of the CD player even putting a Linn Ikemi (I think - their £2k player anyway) in the mix, and not getting *anything* in return. But when I changed the amp (in particular) and then the speakers - hoo CHA - it was like cleaning the windows.

So in this context, having 'settled' for a Cambridge, my system looks seriously unblanced on the CD front, but still sounds fabulous, because the amp and speakers are squeezing the very best out of the player, which in relative terms is closer to a £1k player than, say my Diamond 9.1s were to my current PMCs. Does that make sense?

 

[drummerman]

Your's the money your's the choice. Whilst I agree to a DEGREE with johnduncan about (especially) the importance of matching speaker to amplification and the relative 'diminishing return' of say a £500 spinner compared to a 1k one these days*, I maintain that Ebay is ok if you KNOW what you want. Its also far from being an exclusive source for bargains. Check out what people are prepared to pay for some of the gear which happens to be flavour of the week. Yes, perhaps you can get your money back if something is'nt to your liking or has been damaged in transit etc etc. but its far from guaranteed and certainly a lot of hassle. Its a gamble and my bet is you will be, for a long time coming, swapping and changing.

You got a car have'nt you. Dont you think it'll be a good idea to drive a few miles further than your 'local' dealer for a grand?

* ... please dont start a thread on that, cause it'll be monumentally BORING. I also suffer from short-attention-span disorder so forget about it as soon as I end this sentence.

What did you say john?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="forumuser1"]
Hello,

I am looking to buy a CD player, amp and speakers. I'd be very grateful if someone could recommend some seperates that work together to give:

1) A very impressive deep and wide sound stage, where it is easy to pick out individual instruments within the sound stage.

2) A very musical system that gets your toes tapping during upbeat music, but can also make your spine tingle.

I aim to buy secondhand kit on eBay, and would be looking at ~ £1000 in total. I guess this equates to about £2000 new. Which kit do people recommend?

[/quote]
Option 1: Arcam + Dali

Option 2: Cyrus + Dali

Pair a pair of Dali IKON 2 or IKON 6 with an Arcam or a Cyrus and let the bees sing in your room.

 

[drummerman]

[quote user="ranjeetrain"]and let the bees sing in your room[/quote]

Can I have a singing bee too pleeeeeeeease

 

[drummerman]

[quote user="drummerman"]Can I have a singing bee too pleeeeeeeease[/quote]

or was it a fly? ... forgot

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="drummerman"]
[quote user="ranjeetrain"]and let the bees sing in your room[/quote]

Can I have a singing bee too pleeeeeeeease
[/quote]
Do you want the one who sings in English or the one in French

 

[drummerman]

Are you crazy? Bees dont sing. Whats the matter with you? You need to get out more