Sonus Faber Cremonas

[woolen1]

Hi all, just joined and wanting some opinions on the Sonus Faber Cremona floorstanders I just bought.

I've alway had Dynaudio speakers over the years and loved them but fancied something a bit more rarified and that looked a bit more special, hence the Cremonas. However, literally from the first second of playing I'm not liking the way they sound at all! As expected the mids do sound good, but the sound in general seems so flat and coloured compared to what I'm used to. Bass doesn't seem to extend and instead feels hollow and boomy. Treble has some detail but none of the sharp accuracy I get from Dynaudios. Even my little Audience 42s make more of an impression on me!

I'm running 24/96 files through an Arcam irDac into an A38 amp - realise these are probably not up to the job of getting the most out of the Cremonas but am wondering do I a) accept that the Cremonas are obviously just not for me and move on or b) look for a new more serious amp setup that might liven things up a bit?

If I go for option a, what speakers get closest to the Dynaudio feel whist also looking spectacular?

If option b, what recommendations for kit that will be a good match and feed some excitement into the Sonus Fabers?

Any help much appreciated!

 

[nopiano]

There is at least one contributor here with Cremonas, but his name escapes me at the moment. It might be the one with a Unison tube amp and a Devialet.

You can see I have a far more modest sf model, with a Krell amplifier. These were a popular combo, and latterly I've heard Cremonas sound great with a Devialet.

They need a fair bit of space to work, and most SFs like to be crossed over in front if your listening space i.e. angled inward sharply. Also check the tilt, if you have adjustable feet. Easier to begin with is sitting on the floor, then a cushion, etc. to judge the effect on the treble.

Do persist, as they should be wonderful, though if you prefer sharp and analytical, maybe they were not an ideal choice.

 

[seemorebtts]

I love Sonus Faber speakers I very nearly bought some for my setup because they are so smooth.im afraid your problem is what you are running.I think the easiest way to solve this is to get rid of the speakers.it seems you like your amp and dac (I don't like the DAC you have by the way you can get alot better).If you keep the speakers it's going to be a costly upgrade.i don't know how deep your pockets are but if you invest in a good matching system for your Sonus Faber you could create something a bit special

 

[Infiniteloop]

There is at least one contributor here with Cremonas, but his name escapes me at the moment. It might be the one with a Unison tube amp and a Devialet.

You can see I have a far more modest sf model, with a Krell amplifier. These were a popular combo, and latterly I've heard Cremonas sound great with a Devialet.

They need a fair bit of space to work, and most SFs like to be crossed over in front if your listening space i.e. angled inward sharply. Also check the tilt, if you have adjustable feet. Easier to begin with is sitting on the floor, then a cushion, etc. to judge the effect on the treble.

Do persist, as they should be wonderful, though if you prefer sharp and analytical, maybe they were not an ideal choice.

It might be me you have in mind. I have a pair of SF Cremona Auditor M's. They are a beautiful sounding speaker and work equally well (although differently) with both my S8 Valve Amp and Devialet 200. They sparkle at the top and have great bass but it's the midrange that is most special. These are standmounters though and I think this is where the difference lies. I prefer standmounters as they generally present a sharper focus to my ears. I've tried various floorstanders and find them more coloured than standmounters, but again this is just personal preference.

The OP could try to tighten the bass somewhat by stuffing some foam or material into the rear ports, my Focals came with foam bungs for this purpose and they do have a tightening effect on the bass although I haven't tried it with the Cremonas as I haven't needed to.

This is the second pair of Sonus Fabers I've had. The previous Concertos I had for many years and eventually I wore them out. I'm in the process of looking for some new speakers and the SF Guarneri's are on the audition list......

I hope the OP sorts the problem. SF's can sound wonderful.

 

[DocG]

Hi woolen1, and welcome to the forum!

I think a).

I tried a whole host of wildly different speakers in these past couple of years, an when I heard SF (it was the Olympica II), they left me cold. Maybe other models would suit me better, but I was so disappointed that I didn't bother anymore. Went for Magnepan in the end.

You could try different amplification (a Devialet with SAM enabled could be a good place to start), but I'm afraid the difference won't be big enough. But since you bought the speakers already, you might give it a shot.

 

[nopiano]

There is at least one contributor here with Cremonas, but his name escapes me at the moment. It might be the one with a Unison tube amp and a Devialet.

You can see I have a far more modest sf model, with a Krell amplifier. These were a popular combo, and latterly I've heard Cremonas sound great with a Devialet.

They need a fair bit of space to work, and most SFs like to be crossed over in front if your listening space i.e. angled inward sharply. Also check the tilt, if you have adjustable feet. Easier to begin with is sitting on the floor, then a cushion, etc. to judge the effect on the treble.

Do persist, as they should be wonderful, though if you prefer sharp and analytical, maybe they were not an ideal choice.

It might be me you have in mind. I have a pair of SF Cremona Auditor M's. They are a beautiful sounding speaker and work equally well (although differently) with both my S8 Valve Amp and Devialet 200. They sparkle at the top and have great bass but it's the midrange that is most special. These are standmounters though and I think this is where the difference lies. I prefer standmounters as they generally present a sharper focus to my ears. I've tried various floorstanders and find them more coloured than standmounters, but again this is just personal preference.

The OP could try to tighten the bass somewhat by stuffing some foam or material into the rear ports, my Focals came with foam bungs for this purpose and they do have a tightening effect on the bass although I haven't tried it with the Cremonas as I haven't needed to.

This is the second pair of Sonus Fabers I've had. The previous Concertos I had for many years and eventually I wore them out. I'm in the process of looking for some new speakers and the SF Guarneri's are on the audition list......

I hope the OP sorts the problem. SF's can sound wonderful.

Indeed it was you. Apologies I couldn't recall you, though had I had more time I'd have searched a few threads! I meant to ask the OP which model they have, as there are several.

 

[woolen1]

Thanks for all the advice guys, that is great.

It may sound ridiculous but I love the way they look so much that I think I'm going to go for it on the source side and see what happens. If I still can't make them work I can keep the upgrade source gear and change speakers. That leaves a couple more questions!

- The Devialet looks like a great piece of kit. Also considering going for a Mcintosh 6900 (always wanted something Mcintosh!). Final and third option for now is something from Electrocompaniet... any feedback on those three in the context of the Cremonas?

- What kind of cables should I be using, power, interconnect and speaker?

Thanks guys this forum is awesome! Which ever way I go I'll keep the thread posted.

 

[Macspur]

Afraid I've never heard SF with those amps, but Mackintosh are certainly very well thought of in high end circles... Electrocompaniet is a fine make also, but not sure it would be a good match with your SF's.

What brands do you have access to, would you be able to have home demos?

Mac

www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[nopiano]

Thanks for all the advice guys, that is great.

It may sound ridiculous but I love the way they look so much that I think I'm going to go for it on the source side and see what happens. If I still can't make them work I can keep the upgrade source gear and change speakers. That leaves a couple more questions!

- The Devialet looks like a great piece of kit. Also considering going for a Mcintosh 6900 (always wanted something Mcintosh!). Final and third option for now is something from Electrocompaniet... any feedback on those three in the context of the Cremonas?

- What kind of cables should I be using, power, interconnect and speaker?

Thanks guys this forum is awesome! Which ever way I go I'll keep the thread posted.

I think Electrocompaniet are known as slightly 'dark', which I would think is the last thing you need. Less sure about McIntosh, but again they don't seem to be among the more brilliant or analytical.

Dont worry about cables now. At best they might fine tune something you are happy with (or do nothing, depending on your beliefs). Need to get the speakers working in the room, and then a better amplifier.

 

[Infiniteloop]

Thanks for all the advice guys, that is great.

It may sound ridiculous but I love the way they look so much that I think I'm going to go for it on the source side and see what happens. If I still can't make them work I can keep the upgrade source gear and change speakers. That leaves a couple more questions!

- The Devialet looks like a great piece of kit. Also considering going for a Mcintosh 6900 (always wanted something Mcintosh!). Final and third option for now is something from Electrocompaniet... any feedback on those three in the context of the Cremonas?

- What kind of cables should I be using, power, interconnect and speaker?

Thanks guys this forum is awesome! Which ever way I go I'll keep the thread posted.

It would be very much worth hearing your speakers with a Devialet. The Devialet sound is very precise, clean and neutral but powerful and musical so that you can listen for hours on end without fatigue. It could be just what you're looking for.

 

[Electro]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

 

[Macspur]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

A good shout, I should have thought of them. A second hand Accuphase would be a great match and they have tone controls. Mac www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[woolen1]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

 

[Infiniteloop]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

Really glad to hear you've made your Cremonas sing. When you get them on song, Sonus Fabers are beautiful.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

With a Devialet you get a very high quality DAC, a streamer, digital tone controls, SAM dsp and free upgrades via firmware updates in addition to a very clean sounding and powerful Amp which more than justifies the price for me.

 

[Macspur]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

Great news, must admit though, didn't expect them to be a good match... Electrocompaniet is a quality make, love my EMC1UP. Mac www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

 

[Electro]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

Electrocompaniet amps are rather good aren't they *biggrin* .

I am sometimes hesitant to keep on recommending Electrocompaniet amplifiers for fear of sounding like a broken record, I am a massive Electrocompaniet fanboy.

But it seems you have now experienced the Electro amp sound, once heard there is no going back, they just open a massive window to the music.

What they can do is unique and revelatory I wish more people would listen to them.

I have not heard Electrocompaniet and SF together but it doesn't surprise me that they sound so good.

I am so pleased for you. *i-m_so_happy*

 

[DocG]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

With a Devialet you get a very high quality DAC, a streamer, digital tone controls, SAM dsp and free upgrades via firmware updates in addition to a very clean sounding and powerful Amp which more than justifies the price for me.

And a preamp. That would be another box if you go the Nord-route.

 

[nopiano]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

Great news, must admit though, didn't expect them to be a good match... Electrocompaniet is a quality make, love my EMC1UP. Mac www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

I agree with Mac, and I warned above they might not be ideal together, but the proof is in the listening. But as you say, the previous amps were obviously struggling. Often, low impedances and phase angles can put strain on amps, and high end speakers tend not to be a easy drive. Delighted for you!

 

[avole]

are a match made in heaven! That's what I've used over the years.

I can only assume those who think otherwise have never heard the combination.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

With a Devialet you get a very high quality DAC, a streamer, digital tone controls, SAM dsp and free upgrades via firmware updates in addition to a very clean sounding and powerful Amp which more than justifies the price for me.

And a preamp. That would be another box if you go the Nord-route.

Thanks. - And a very high quality phono Amp section on the D200 and above if you ever wanted to add a turntable.

 

[Electro]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

With a Devialet you get a very high quality DAC, a streamer, digital tone controls, SAM dsp and free upgrades via firmware updates in addition to a very clean sounding and powerful Amp which more than justifies the price for me.

And a preamp. That would be another box if you go the Nord-route.

Thanks. - And a very high quality phono Amp section on the D200 and above if you ever wanted to add a turntable.

All the above is true but if you don't want all the extras then the Nord's are still a massive bargain and also very easily serviced in future. *smile*

 

[Electro]

Thanks again for the input guys.

Played with positioning still running the Arcam and got an improvement with more toe in.

Then today hooked them up to an Electrocompaniet ECI 3 and WOW! The Arcam obviously just couldn't handle them. They're now alive and sounding incredible. Bass is controlled and mids and highs have completely opened up. Chuffed to say the least! Not having owned kit on this level before I just sat and listened to all my favourite stuff. Hooked!

Great news, must admit though, didn't expect them to be a good match... Electrocompaniet is a quality make, love my EMC1UP. Mac www.macsmusic.blogbubble.net

I agree with Mac, and I warned above they might not be ideal together, but the proof is in the listening. But as you say, the previous amps were obviously struggling. Often, low impedances and phase angles can put strain on amps, and high end speakers tend not to be a easy drive. Delighted for you!

Many people think that Electrocompaniet amplifiers are on the warm or dark side of neutral, but in my experience this is not the case, it is simply a lack of distortion allowed by the massive amount of headroom available, 80 amps peak in the case of the EC1 3.

Transients are preserved fully and clipping even at high spl's is almost eliminated ( within the capability of the amp ) this allows a crystal clear picture of the music with none of the roughness or brightness that many amps suffer from.

When Electro amps are measured they are as close to flat as possible not rolled off at all .

 

[Infiniteloop]

I think an ampifier from Nord Acoustics would improve things dramatically , they can also be tailored to the sound you prefer or the speakers used with different OP amp modules, they are also considerably cheaper than anything from Devaliet.

Have a look at the site and see what you think.

https://www.nordacoustics.co.uk/

You can choose the finish and the case to suit your taste or other equipment, they are all extremely powerful and will really take the SF's to the limit of their performance.

Contact Colin for more info or possibly a demo .

With a Devialet you get a very high quality DAC, a streamer, digital tone controls, SAM dsp and free upgrades via firmware updates in addition to a very clean sounding and powerful Amp which more than justifies the price for me.

And a preamp. That would be another box if you go the Nord-route.

Thanks. - And a very high quality phono Amp section on the D200 and above if you ever wanted to add a turntable.

All the above is true but if you don't want all the extras then the Nord's are still a massive bargain and also very easily serviced in future. *smile*

True. Though with a Devialet, you can send it back to the mothership for upgrades - whole new sections as technology improves, so in theory they never become obsolete. If a section fails, it can be replaced. This gets costly of course, but at least its possible.*good*