should my speakers sound this dull and flat?

[basshead]

I have a pair of 4 month old MS 916i, i find the mid and high ranges very precise and clear (maybe too clinical and bright, but that's a different matter) however i find the bass very pathetic sounding.

When i disconnect the mid and high drivers so only the bass drivers are being driven the sound is so dull, flat, monotonous, hollow and muffled. the sound is similar to hearing music being played loudly from 2 houses away, it also reminds me of my teenage attempts to play music through a guitar amp/speaker. there is certainly no 'sub' bass, no deep sounds and no clarity.

As a test i played some very bass heavy music through my old sony mini system (10 years old, about £130 new at that time), the bass from the sony mini system was far more enjoyable.

Has anyone else had similar experiences with mordaunt short speakers? could they be broken? I have experimented with every possible option for positioning, close to walls, in the middle of the room ect.

any advice is greatly appreciated!!!!

 

[John Duncan]

Well of course it sounds dull and flat when you disconnect the mid and high drivers, since the bass unit isn't going to handle the upper frequencies, even if it's being fed them through the crossover (which may or may not be the case depending on the design, though most likely not). However, there could be several explanations here, so can you tell us the rest of your system - might help us diagnose a bit better?

 

[basshead]

i understand that without the upper and mid ranges it wont be the full sound, but the bass really does sound rubbish, my small and cheap mini system shouldn't be able to produce better bass than these big floor standers, surely?

my system is:

laptop or desktop > digital output (cambridge audio optical cable) to Beresford TC-7510 > ca artic cable to: ca azur 540A > Audio Innovations ultra biwire cable to: ms 916i

i have searched through the forum topics and read lots on interconnects and cables ect, could these really be the problem? i dont feel a little 'tweeking' will solve the problem though. could it be the amp/speaker combo?

thank you in advance for your thoughts/advice!

 

[matengawhat]

i wouldn't worry i run a sub with my stereo speakers so can turn them off - if just the subs playing sounds like there is a car parked at the end of my road with the system turned up - rubbish

im amazed actually how little sound comes from the sub

but turn the main speakers back on and put the whole lot together and wow!!!

 

[nads]

so how do they sound compared to when you auditioned them?

I guess worse or you would not be complaining.

so what is different to the audiotion set up and yours?

 

[John Duncan]

basshead:
i understand that without the upper and mid ranges it wont be the full sound, but the bass really does sound rubbish, my small and cheap mini system shouldn't be able to produce better bass than these big floor standers, surely?

my system is:

laptop or desktop > digital output (cambridge audio optical cable) to Beresford TC-7510 > ca artic cable to: ca azur 540A > Audio Innovations ultra biwire cable to: ms 916i

i have searched through the forum topics and read lots on interconnects and cables ect, could these really be the problem? i dont feel a little 'tweeking' will solve the problem though. could it be the amp/speaker combo?

thank you in advance for your thoughts/advice!

Well there's amount of bass and quality of bass, and I'd expect the quality of bass to be a bit better from the Cambridge - more controlled, less distorted etc - but the 540 isn't the fullest amp around, I'd have said - maybe you do need a bit more power to control those floorstanders, despite their high sensitivity. First thing that jumps to mind is one of the beefier NADs, but I'd kind of wait and see if anybody else has any ideas before jumping on the upgrade bandwagon.

Lastly - you say that you biwire - are you sure you've got it wired up correctly? Can't remember whether the 540 has two sets of outputs or are you wiring them four bananas at speaker end to two at the amp end? Apologies if that's a grandmother/eggs question

 

[Anonymous]

Listening to drivers in isolation is a very odd experience. I thought the same of my old MA speakers when I was bi-amping. I tried the bass on it's own and it sounded rather more cuppy and muffled than I was expecting.

Forget what the mini system sounded like, there'll be different crossover tuning and it really doesn't reflect on what the final sound will amount to.

 

[basshead]

''but turn the main speakers back on and put the whole lot together and wow!!! ''

that's the problem, with the whole system on the bass still sounds very weak and almost non-existent, very very far from 'wow'.

I auditioned the speakers with the ca540a in richer sounds, i think the detail of the high and mid ranges impressed me and i based my thoughts on that, probably a mistake looking back.

I have asked the lovely richer sounds staff for advice and they suggest a seperate sub, but shouldnt these big double bass-driver speakers be able to handle bass just fine by themselves?

appart from the pityful bass, i find the whole system very bright sounding and boring to listen to for over 20 mins. maybe it was the bright sound that got me hooked in the audition and i didnt have long enough to relize it was draining to listen to.

i am happy to change one part of the system (amp or speaker) if this will get the sound i want, or would my money be better spent on a sub?

 

[Anonymous]

Crikey. Well, what's the budget? Sounds like a different amp might be worth trying, something like a Rotel RA03 or RA06. These have 70W of power and a good weight to their bass.

 

[basshead]

for the bi-wiring:

i have removed the binding posts, and checked and double checked that they are wired correctly, the amp has 2 sets of speaker out-puts and i have tried using the 2 sets to drive to bass and high/mid, i have also tried twisting the ends of the wires together and using one set of speaker outputs - made no difference whatsoever.

i dont find the bass either detailed or powerful, it is muffled and weak.

 

[matengawhat]

these speakers to me are strange in the fact that both those cones are mid/bass drivers neither is a dedicated bass driver so they prob look meaner than they are

 

[basshead]

thanks for the comments so far, what i am now wondering is:

1) could the speakers be broken? (i doubt it)

2) as the sound of my system is clearly not what i want,( ie lack of bass power and depth, and too bright sounding) changing which component would have the most dramatic effect? speakers or amp? any suggestions?

if it helps, i listen to electronic music mainly, hip hop and techno. but also listen to indie/rock. never use the system for watching films

 

[Anonymous]

Change the speakers. You clearly don't like them.

 

[basshead]

ok, thanks for your advice!

it seems my best bet is to get different speakers maybe. and i've learned a valuable lesson about auditioning equipment - dont go on first impressions!

 

[John Duncan]

basshead:
ok, thanks for your advice!

it seems my best bet is to get different speakers maybe. and i've learned a valuable lesson about auditioning equipment - dont go on first impressions!

Possibly - I think your best bet is to try another amp with those speakers, and other speakers with your existing amp, maybe see which direction you want to go.

 

[Anonymous]

Agreed, but do audition at home if possible.

 

[basshead]

could a decent sub add some warmth and bounce to the music as well as good deep bass? this way i could keep my current system, as i do still quite like the detail of the ms speakers.

 

[JoelSim]

If punchy, tight bass is your thing then I suggest you take your kit into a dealer and listen to some B&Ws.

ÿ

 

[matthewpiano]

I suspect its the amp thats at fault. MS speakers are superb. I had the 914is and there was no shortage of bass when run with an Azur 740A. The 540A isn't the best amp even at that price point. I had one here very briefly but found it annoying to listen to - no proper sense of balance and a tendency towards harshness with several different speakers.

 

[basshead]

any recommendations for an alternative amp to demo? bearing in mind i want a warmer sound for listening to electronic/dance music. i've read on here that NAD stuff is quite warm sounding?

 

[Anonymous]

I would suggest the marantz 7001 or the 7001ki amplifier. Marantz and Mordaunt short are a great match IMO. Also try the new pm7003. It is confirmed that there is a partnership between the companies.

 

[Anonymous]

igglebert:something like a Rotel RA03 or RA06. These have 70W of power and a good weight to their bass.
One of these will suit perfectly IMO.

 

[Anonymous]

Where are you speakers placed in the room?
I had a similar problem with my Azur 540a Mk2 when the speakers were placed as where the "X"s are:

___________
| X X |
| |
| |
| |___
| |
| |
| |
| |
| SOFA |
--------------------------

I simply could not believe how poor it sounded - massively dissapointed. I then moved the room around to:
___________
| |
| |
| |
| |___
| X |
| S |
| O |
| F |
| A X |
--------------------------

Although this diagram is crude, the speakers are now wider apart and closer to the listening position and the sound is just awesome. Bass weight, slam, imaging, it all slotted into place. I was astounded how different it sounded; and also astounded how much difference speaker positioning can make.

 

[d_a_n1979]

As above really; the Rotel amps would be a good mach as would either a NAD C352 integrated or the NAD C355BEE integrated.

An Arcam amp could be a good choice as well but depends on what yopur budget is. If youre happy with 2nd hand then take a look at the Arcam Alpha 10 integrated.

As for your speaker placement; the 2nd diagram would be my choice. The 1st diagram would offer too much bass boom IMO and wouldnt sound good at all.

 

[mikaeil]

Hi everybody,

first of all thanks everybody for their kind help.

my room size : 2.95 x 4.4 m

first setup: mini denon dm 39 + its own speakers

second : amp marantz pm6005 + Dali zensor 3 + Q Acoustics 3020 + samsung dvd player + QED silver anniversary Cables

I have tried any possible combination with denon and marantz with these three speakers with mp3 320 and also wrote an audio cd from flac files (this one sounded better) almost for more than 8 months!!!,

problem : lifeless and disturbing sound i cant listen to one album, there is no depth no musicality in sound, no bass note, i meen you cant hear bass, only hollow and disturbing huuuum sound that never ends...

I really appreciate someone help me, i dont have a chance to go to show rooms and listen there...!!!

waiting for your kind advise: I am really tired of this and thinking to buy a cheep logitech pc speaker and at least i can listen to music ....!!! very sad.....

Thanks.