Shall I Upgrade?

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gasolin

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I would also audition the new Arcam A5 amp. And get a wiim mini pro for streaming duties, since it's cheap, has good software, and you can add a dac later should you feel the need to upgrade. A Bluesound Node is also a good option if it can fit your budget.


Bad advice, a Arcam A5 has a dac

For what the amp costs you can get a Denon PMA-900HNE or yamaha R-N600a with streaming capability with a built in dac and stil have some left for cables,feet or a better power cable for the Denon amp, with a discount im shure you can get the Yamaha R-N800A with detachable power cord and ypao sound optimization software (aut adjustments with a mic) for further optimization than the Yamaha R-N600A
 

WayneKerr

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Jan 21, 2022
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Many Thanks mate for the offer, I moved up from North Kent just over the water to Scotland 4 years ago! Was thinking of just adding the Wiim Pro, and as you say Once it goes bang then upgrade. I will see if I can get s listen to a new amp in Richer Sounds. I also have a Pioneer N50 DAC which is also probably adding to the sound quality I'm currently hearing, and if I was to upgrade would then be using the internal DAC of the new Amp therefore may be that won't be as good as my current set up....
Your eventual decision will be based on what your requirements are. Do you want a one-box solution - amp/DAC/streamer, or a three-box solution - keeping things separate. Personally, I've opted for the latter as I don't trust manufacturers with firmware support for older products, (e.g. I bought a smart TV that went dumb after 8 years). Wiim is a good call as it's cheap and you don't have to use the internal DAC if you don't like it.
 

ScubaCollie

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Dec 4, 2020
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Correct no intention of replacing any interconnects.

Although I've been thinking this afternoon, even though my main requirement is to add streaming capabilities to my system, ive been thinking regarding also upgrading the Pioneer N50 DAC? As it's from 2012, and it is ultimately this that is determining the sound quality right?

Even though I'm happy with the sound quality as it is now, if upgrading the DAC will improve it even more (as mine is from.2012?) then will be worth it.....

And retain my Marantz PM-50 Amp?

And purchase a separate Streamer WIIM Pro or possibly even combine the streamer and DAC into a better branded item? (Although I have noted above re best to keep the items separate)
 
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rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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Bad advice, a Arcam A5 has a dac

For what the amp costs you can get a Denon PMA-900HNE or yamaha R-N600a with streaming capability with a built in dac and stil have some left for cables,feet or a better power cable for the Denon amp, with a discount im shure you can get the Yamaha R-N800A with detachable power cord and ypao sound optimization software (aut adjustments with a mic) for further optimization than the Yamaha R-N600A
Just because it has a DAC it doesn't mean you get more amp from other companies that make amps without one. For instance, I wouldn't touch a Yamaha amp with a 10foot pole, I dislike how they sound THAT much. Especially paired with speakers like MA. So no, I don't consider it bad advice at all, it's a brand that has always matched MA speakers very well, and they don't make an amp without a DAC currently (anyway a DAC is really cheap to implement, I don't think theres a huge production cost going into that).
 

ScubaCollie

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Your speakers are an easy load but do dip down to 3ohms. MA specs for your speaker suggest an amp with 80-250 watts output, so 70 watts isn't miles away. If you really want a decent upgrade but want to stay with Marantz then look at the Model 30... depending on how deep your pockets are :)

Edit: Maybe ignore this as you want a streaming amp.
Hi I've been watching you tube reviews of the Model 30 and 40 this evening.

The 40 is apparently the better sounding Amp, however it's still only 70WPC (the same as my existing Marantz PM50 from 1991), and I'm hung up on two things as below.

1. I can't get out if my head that Minitor Audio Spec an Amp requirement of at least 80Wpc - 250Wpc....

2. I already have 70Wpc therefore would this amp be an improvement over my existing PM50?

I've also noticed that Marantz have the Signature PM-12 SE which is 100Wpc which would be great, but on looking it up I can't find ANY reviews on it, all I can find is it was originally intended for the Japanese Market and now available Internationally, and also its purely Analogue, therefore would definitely need to go down the streamer/Dac route with that one.....what's your thoughts on this one?
 

rainsoothe

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Apr 30, 2012
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Hi I've been watching you tube reviews of the Model 30 and 40 this evening.

The 40 is apparently the better sounding Amp, however it's still only 70WPC (the same as my existing Marantz PM50 from 1991), and I'm hung up on two things as below.

1. I can't get out if my head that Minitor Audio Spec an Amp requirement of at least 80Wpc - 250Wpc....

2. I already have 70Wpc therefore would this amp be an improvement over my existing PM50?

I've also noticed that Marantz have the Signature PM-12 SE which is 100Wpc which would be great, but on looking it up I can't find ANY reviews on it, all I can find is it was originally intended for the Japanese Market and now available Internationally, and also its purely Analogue, therefore would definitely need to go down the streamer/Dac route with that one.....what's your thoughts on this one?
I have an easy cure for your w/ch bias - go audition any gutsy amp that's at around 50 w/ch and hear for yourself. Go audition a Naim Nait 5si (or Nait XS3 or Supernait 3 or whatever) and tell me they sound underpowered :))))

Also, I bet that most any high current design with 4-50 w/ch will sound gutsier than a mediocre class D amp that rates their power at 100 w/ch.

And 2 - yes, it will - but only you can decide if the improvement is worth it, so go audition, don't go by the spec sheet.

-----------------------
If you don't mind SH and have the space and cash for it, you can always look for a used Arcam A39 or A49 :p But do yourself a favor and audition stuff.
 
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twinkletoes

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Nov 16, 2021
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If it were me I’d be looking at Roksan, Ma now own them and I suspect it’s the brand they used to develop the speakers. I’d then also have on the list

Musical fidelity ms6i proper power at “affordable” prices
Hegal same as above maybe better
Technics they do some very clever things with there amps and certainly worth a look
Rotel old school thinking that stand the test of time

Modern marantz are bit blah for me and I think you owe it to yourself to audition other options. And options that cost around the same as you speakers.

You’re speakers seem pretty easy to drive spec wise but I’d hazard a guess they have some large ohm swings (though there spec suggest other wise), hence them stating a 80 watt rating minimum. Ie they need to be controlled as they get bit boisterous.

Though I largely agree that watts really mean nothing in the grand scheme of things, after all there is only so much you can pull from the wall! Its more about current and storage of that said current. Having said that Wattage is still good gauge of intention.

I’d certainly look to high powered options especially if MA are stating it they”ll be a reason for it
 
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WayneKerr

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Jan 21, 2022
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Hi I've been watching you tube reviews of the Model 30 and 40 this evening.

The 40 is apparently the better sounding Amp, however it's still only 70WPC (the same as my existing Marantz PM50 from 1991), and I'm hung up on two things as below.

1. I can't get out if my head that Minitor Audio Spec an Amp requirement of at least 80Wpc - 250Wpc....

2. I already have 70Wpc therefore would this amp be an improvement over my existing PM50?

I've also noticed that Marantz have the Signature PM-12 SE which is 100Wpc which would be great, but on looking it up I can't find ANY reviews on it, all I can find is it was originally intended for the Japanese Market and now available Internationally, and also its purely Analogue, therefore would definitely need to go down the streamer/Dac route with that one.....what's your thoughts on this one?
As others have said, audition is the only way to categorically choose your next amp, a home loan is the best way to do this.
As for your thoughts on these Marantz amps - a simple comparison:
The Ruby was an anniversary model and is basically half a PM10.
The PM12SE is basically a Ruby without the snazzy casework and some of the attributes of the Ruby.
The Model 30 is a slightly downgraded version of the PM12SE sporting the new Marantz casework design.
All these models are Class D amps, you'll either like the way they sound or you won't. Personally, I like these Class D amps very much, they sound very analogue to me and I think Marantz have done a cracking job on these. I would not class any of these as mediocre - I actually own one so I'm not speculating.

It's all down to taste and what sounds good to your ears. All we can do is suggest, your ears will give the final verdict. The other question is do you want a streaming amp or a pure analogue only amp... again only you can decide.

Footnote: I went from a Pearl Lite Class AB amp, (PM8000 series), to a Ruby Class D amp, the only difference between them was a noticeable improvement in clarity, detail, heft, and control, apart from this they sounded the same. Another member on here, JDL, moved from a PM8000 series to a Model 30 and he seems very happy with it. You will always have your brand/amp class lovers and haters.
 
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ScubaCollie

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Hi Guys, just an update, I went to demo an amp yesterday, a Roxan Anthessa.....

The shop didn't have the MA Silver 500s, but had what they said were similar priced (a little more at 3k) Linn? Floorstanders.

They left me in the sound room to my own, and I listened to various tunes that I'm used ti listening to on my system, but I was shocked at how bad it was? I'm no expert in sound/Hifi therefore may not use the correct terms to explain, but I know what I like and it wasn't that.

To me there was no separation, there was no sparkle, and the bass and mids sounded fuzzy and dull, everything was too soft, and there was no richness or warmth.

I then noticed they had an Arcam on the rack and asked what one that was, they said the 20? I had a 30 on my list to demo, and thought would have a listen to that whilst I was there.

I much preferred the Arcam over the Antessa but even though the Arcam sounded better, I still wouldn't trade what I've got for that, to me it sounded like a definite step back.....

Anyway below is a video that I uploaded tonight (but don't know if you will be able to view) just taken with the mic on my phone therefore not the best of recordings. (Volume know on amp only set low at 7 oclock)

I've therefore taken a bit of a gamble.....I've decided to go ahead and have ordered the Marantz PM12SE.........and a WIIM PRO PLUS streamer to connect into my Pioneer N50 to give me WiFi streaming instead of having to hook up my laptop every time I want to listen to my music!!

View: https://youtu.be/mJH0JGgxA80?si=NsvSbOI1YJi8DkRV
 

WayneKerr

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Jan 21, 2022
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Hi Guys, just an update, I went to demo an amp yesterday, a Roxan Anthessa.....

The shop didn't have the MA Silver 500s, but had what they said were similar priced (a little more at 3k) Linn? Floorstanders.

They left me in the sound room to my own, and I listened to various tunes that I'm used ti listening to on my system, but I was shocked at how bad it was? I'm no expert in sound/Hifi therefore may not use the correct terms to explain, but I know what I like and it wasn't that.

To me there was no separation, there was no sparkle, and the bass and mids sounded fuzzy and dull, everything was too soft, and there was no richness or warmth.

I then noticed they had an Arcam on the rack and asked what one that was, they said the 20? I had a 30 on my list to demo, and thought would have a listen to that whilst I was there.

I much preferred the Arcam over the Antessa but even though the Arcam sounded better, I still wouldn't trade what I've got for that, to me it sounded like a definite step back.....

Anyway below is a video that I uploaded tonight (but don't know if you will be able to view) just taken with the mic on my phone therefore not the best of recordings. (Volume know on amp only set low at 7 oclock)

I've therefore taken a bit of a gamble.....I've decided to go ahead and have ordered the Marantz PM12SE.........and a WIIM PRO PLUS streamer to connect into my Pioneer N50 to give me WiFi streaming instead of having to hook up my laptop every time I want to listen to my music!!

View: https://youtu.be/mJH0JGgxA80?si=NsvSbOI1YJi8DkRV
Sometimes gambles work and at least you've tried a couple of other amps. I've never auditioned a single piece of kit I've ever owned, but it's always sounded good to my ears :) I think the PM12 will sound different to your current PM50 but don't give up as I'm sure once you get used to it it will repay you in spades. My amp confused me big time until I got my head around what I was hearing.

Nice video(y)It also gives us a chance to look at your room and speaker placement and there a some factors which immediately look wrong. Appreciate, like all of us, you need a functioning room but those speakers stuck in the corners are doing them no favours whatsoever. This will also be a very 'bright' room with hard flooring. If you get issues with the new amp I would suggest looking at speaker placement and at least a rug on the floor.

Please come back with your initial thoughts when the new amp is hooked up and I'm sure we can assist with any issues you may encounter. Well done though, top marks, sir(y)
 

JDL

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Jun 13, 2023
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I'll second what "nopiano" just asked you.
Please do come back and tell us your thoughts/feelings on the PM12 SE after you've set it up and had a good listen. I'm guessing and hoping that it ticks your boxes.
I'd very much have liked one myself but slightly beyond my budget and they very rarely seem to appear on eBay, so I settled for the less expensive Model 30.
I have to say I was slightly concerned about the longevity of Class D in comparison to Class AB but not overly concerned.
I felt and trust that Marantz wouldn't use it if it's likely to be unreliable.
I've been quite surprised and impressed with how cool the Model 30 runs even when pushed hard for several hours. It never gets beyond slightly warm.
Anyway best of luck with the new amp. I'm sure we're all hoping that you'll be very happy with it.
 

WayneKerr

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Jan 21, 2022
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I'll second what "nopiano" just asked you.
Please do come back and tell us your thoughts/feelings on the PM12 SE after you've set it up and had a good listen. I'm guessing and hoping that it ticks your boxes.
I'd very much have liked one myself but slightly beyond my budget and they very rarely seem to appear on eBay, so I settled for the less expensive Model 30.
I have to say I was slightly concerned about the longevity of Class D in comparison to Class AB but not overly concerned.
I felt and trust that Marantz wouldn't use it if it's likely to be unreliable.
I've been quite surprised and impressed with how cool the Model 30 runs even when pushed hard for several hours. It never gets beyond slightly warm.
Anyway best of luck with the new amp. I'm sure we're all hoping that you'll be very happy with it.
I would concur, John. I think Marantz have demonstrated their faith in Class D as it's only used in their higher spec products. I'm certain they know what they're doing by now. I have absolutely no issues or regrets with my kit.
 

nopiano

Well-known member
I've also noticed that Marantz have the Signature PM-12 SE which is 100Wpc which would be great, but on looking it up I can't find ANY reviews on it
I’m not sure about the Signature prefix, but this is the PM-12SE…

 
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