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SACD

cse

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2008
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18,545
I recently purchased a Marantz Pearl Lite SACD player. I bought this primarily because I wanted to take advantage of the growing number of classical CD's that I own that are in the Hybrid format. However, when I listen to an SACD in SACD format and then instantly again to the same CD in CD playback, I can't tell any discernable difference. This of course is very disappointing. Could it be because I have a 2-channel stereo setup and that SACD's ony realise their true potential, through a multi-channel surround sound setup? Any thiughts?
 

Inter_Voice

New member
Oct 5, 2010
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It is strange to hear that you cannot spot the differences. For me I owned a lot of SACDs and my ears tell me that they are a hell lot better than CDs. More space, dynamics and cleaner sound.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Cirrus Logic CS4398 high-performance 24-Bit, 192 kHz D/A converter

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/cs43122-2.pdf

The above is the DAC of your player. No wonder the CD playback is as good as SACD. 8) Actually, almost - You should still be able to spot a difference - it will be audiable mostly in the low and high freq's where the dynamic range of the SACD extends better.

And the rest of system has to have the ability to take advantage of the better source - what amp and speaks do you use? How deep in the bass the speaks can go.

I am listening right now to the album "The World Is Out" of Jaco Pastorius in SACD and no doubt there is a difference.

:dance:
 

Overdose

New member
Feb 8, 2008
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cse said:
I recently purchased a Marantz Pearl Lite SACD player. I bought this primarily because I wanted to take advantage of the growing number of classical CD's that I own that are in the Hybrid format. However, when I listen to an SACD in SACD format and then instantly again to the same CD in CD playback, I can't tell any discernable difference. This of course is very disappointing. Could it be because I have a 2-channel stereo setup and that SACD's ony realise their true potential, through a multi-channel surround sound setup? Any thiughts?
I found this too, but only after buying a couple of SACDs to try. I stopped buying the SACDs as they seem to me to be a waste of money. This also applies to DVD-A.

Any differences seem to be down to remastering, so the high res discs are in some cases, from different masters than the CD versions.
 

cse

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2008
97
5
18,545
quote - The above is the DAC of your player. No wonder the CD playback is as good as SACD. 8) Actually, almost - You should still be able to spot a difference - it will be audiable mostly in the low and high freq's where the dynamic range of the SACD extends better.

And the rest of system has to have the ability to take advantage of the better source - what amp and speaks do you use? How deep in the bass the speaks can go.

:

The speakers are Neat Petit SX and the amp a MK1 Roksan Caspian. Please note that I am comparing like for like ie the sacd and cd against each other on the same cd disc.
 

cse

Well-known member
Mar 3, 2008
97
5
18,545
techeteri said:
Cirrus Logic CS4398 high-performance 24-Bit, 192 kHz D/A converter

http://www.cirrus.com/en/pubs/proDatasheet/cs43122-2.pdf

The above is the DAC of your player. No wonder the CD playback is as good as SACD. 8) Actually, almost - You should still be able to spot a difference - it will be audiable mostly in the low and high freq's where the dynamic range of the SACD extends better.

Thanks for that. Unfortunately, I didn't understand a word of it!
 

Mooly

New member
Jun 10, 2011
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That pretty much mirrors my findings. I too have a Pearl-Lite and listen mainly to classical.

What I can say is that the Marantz does a wonderful job at extracting the "music" from any disc, and the finding that CD and SACD seem to have little difference between them (on this player) really does highlight the fact that the original format was entirely adequate for audio when correctly deployed.
 

stevieg330

New member
May 6, 2005
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Hi,

Yes, pretty much what I have found as well. I bought an SACD player a while back, admittedly an old one, just to see what differences there were between the SACD discs and redbook cd. I also came to the conclusion that the difference is more in the mastering than the format itself.

Cheers

Steve
 
T

the record spot

Guest
The mastering of the recording to hand more than the very fact that it just happens to be on an SACD disc has more influence. Simply being an SACD disc is no guarantee of anything.

Anyone who heard the butchered effort that the Genesis 1976-1982 SACD boxset will be more than aware of this, particularly if they'd already heard the wonderful Barry Diament masters for Trick of the Tail or Wind and Wuthering on the Atco label. Wouldn't have made any difference labelling SACD all over the box; they crucified that one. Give me a great mastering anyday, irrespective of the digital format.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
The idea behind SACD as I understand it is that when you decide to step up in your audio system it gives you more headroom. So it is for more ambitious audiophiles I think. The format will not be the limiting factor for resolution, range and dynamic.

Now, what is paradoxal is that the best players are the ones which come equipped with the best CD converters and there the difference is actually much smaller 8)

I listen to my music with Sony XA-5400ES CD/SACD player, the chip is the Burr-Brown 1796

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1796.pdf

the quality of CD sound is incredible and CD vs. SACD difference is not so big I think in comparson to my other Sony Cd player where CD playback is not as good. SACD is very good on both but I have never made any tests or compared.
 

Craig M.

New member
Mar 20, 2008
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the dynamic range of the humble cd is FAR greater than ANY audio system, and, where you ever to hear that full dynamic range, it would probably deafen you. when a sacd sounds better than the equivalent cd, it is because more care has been taken with the mastering. same thing with 'high res' downloads. just like high res downloads though, worth having if enough of your favourite music is available in that format, but only because there is the potential for a better, or more pleasing, master - nothing to do with the format itself.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
It is quite a big statement to say that SACD doesn't have a reason to sound different from CD. :exmark:

Firstly because it does and secondly because there's a good reason why it does. :read:

There is also a good reason why both SACD and DVD-audio formats were designed instead of using the old CD format in DVD's for example. :poke:

The SACD format and the DVD-audio format are vastly superior to the CD to respond to more demanding customers with correspondin level of hi-fi equipment and needs. :rant:

You dont care? Your ears not to the point of hearing it? Audio system quality too low to make a difference? :shhh:

If you are color-blind it does it mean the color TV's don't make difference. :doh:

Please....
 

Craig M.

New member
Mar 20, 2008
127
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0
techeteri said:
It is quite a big statement to say that SACD doesn't have a reason to sound different from CD. :exmark:

Firstly because it does and secondly because there's a good reason why it does. :read:

There is also a good reason why both SACD and DVD-audio formats were designed instead of using the old CD format in DVD's for example. :poke:

The SACD format and the DVD-audio format are vastly superior to the CD to respond to more demanding customers with correspondin level of hi-fi equipment and needs. :rant:

You dont care? Your ears not to the point of hearing it? Audio system quality too low to make a difference? :shhh:

If you are color-blind it does it mean the color TV's don't make difference. :doh:

Please....
i'm sorry, but do some research before spouting nonsense.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Yep, so the 44 kHz sampling rate is sufficient to good playback. No need for SACD 2.8 gHz :clap: :clap: :clap:

But why those modern DAC do all that up-sampling, oh my... what a scam!!! :help:

So everybody got it backwards, all those great engineers who do DAC's and CD players and it's just you and Fidel Castro who nailed it :?

:grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

If the discussion degrades further to the point of exchanging medical diagnoses, at least I would be able to recommend a doctor too - otologist or neurologist. Best case would be just psychiatrist :grin: :grin: :grin:

Have nice day, I'll have a listen to some favorite SACD's today and enjoy myself as well

:cheers:
 

Craig M.

New member
Mar 20, 2008
127
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i think you are getting confused, to put it politely. upsampling? what on earth has that got to do with it? like i said, do some research, the aes (audio engineering society) link i provided would be a good place to start...
 

Al ears

Moderator
cse said:
I recently purchased a Marantz Pearl Lite SACD player. I bought this primarily because I wanted to take advantage of the growing number of classical CD's that I own that are in the Hybrid format. However, when I listen to an SACD in SACD format and then instantly again to the same CD in CD playback, I can't tell any discernable difference. This of course is very disappointing. Could it be because I have a 2-channel stereo setup and that SACD's ony realise their true potential, through a multi-channel surround sound setup? Any thiughts?
Basically no. There should be no discernable difference in a SACD mastered as a stereo disc to that of one specifically designed to play back as multichannel. Hybrid discs are just that and I am not too sure about the quality of these. I do have a few and I personally can tell the difference between the layers. Pure SACD discs are another matter altogether.
That said it all comes down to your system and your ears.
If you cannot hear any difference stick to CD's as the Marantz is a great player. (and save a few quid in long run) :)
 

Craig M.

New member
Mar 20, 2008
127
0
0
Alears said:
cse said:
I recently purchased a Marantz Pearl Lite SACD player. I bought this primarily because I wanted to take advantage of the growing number of classical CD's that I own that are in the Hybrid format. However, when I listen to an SACD in SACD format and then instantly again to the same CD in CD playback, I can't tell any discernable difference. This of course is very disappointing. Could it be because I have a 2-channel stereo setup and that SACD's ony realise their true potential, through a multi-channel surround sound setup? Any thiughts?
Basically no. There should be no discernable difference in a SACD mastered as a stereo disc to that of one specifically designed to play back as multichannel. Hybrid discs are just that and I am not too sure about the quality of these. I do have a few and I personally can tell the difference between the layers. Pure SACD discs are another matter altogether. That said it all comes down to your system and your ears. If you cannot hear any difference stick to CD's as the Marantz is a great player. (and save a few quid in long run) :)
but, how do you know they are from the same master? not that i actually care. god, i think i'm turning into the_lhc. :silenced:
 

Al ears

Moderator
Craig M. said:
Alears said:
cse said:
I recently purchased a Marantz Pearl Lite SACD player. I bought this primarily because I wanted to take advantage of the growing number of classical CD's that I own that are in the Hybrid format. However, when I listen to an SACD in SACD format and then instantly again to the same CD in CD playback, I can't tell any discernable difference. This of course is very disappointing. Could it be because I have a 2-channel stereo setup and that SACD's ony realise their true potential, through a multi-channel surround sound setup? Any thiughts?
Basically no. There should be no discernable difference in a SACD mastered as a stereo disc to that of one specifically designed to play back as multichannel. Hybrid discs are just that and I am not too sure about the quality of these. I do have a few and I personally can tell the difference between the layers. Pure SACD discs are another matter altogether. That said it all comes down to your system and your ears. If you cannot hear any difference stick to CD's as the Marantz is a great player. (and save a few quid in long run) :)
but, how do you know they are from the same master? not that i actually care. god, i think i'm turning into the_lhc. :silenced:
Re the-lhc, I hope not!
Re the layers, you don't know but I would find it hard to believe they would go through the bother of finding a different master to record one layer.
 

crumpet

New member
Apr 24, 2012
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I have a Marantz 8003 which is similar to your Pearl Lite (aka SA 8004) ... yours is the newer model and likely the better machine.

Given a decent hi-rez recording, I find the natural clean sound of SACD easily superior to listening to the CD layer of the same recording. It is like listening to a really good turntable with chamber music, but without the pops and squeaks and hiss, or to orchestral music with a wider dynamic range than LP can offer, but without the digital harshness of CD. But you do need to make sure that you start with a recording that was actually recorded in hi-rez, preferably as a pure DSD recording.

This is actually one of many mistakes that that rather embarrassing AES paper made (referenced above) ... the authors let people bring any discs they wanted, and a whole bunch of the test discs were not even hi-rez recordings ... sometimes just 1970s and 1980s CD recordings that only existed on SACD (like Dark Side of the Moon or Alan Parsons etc) because of multi-channel content.

Make sure the box says what the recording resolution is (or check the label's web site). If they don't state the recording resolution, just buy something else.
 

crumpet

New member
Apr 24, 2012
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0
Oh yes - one more thing. It is also quite plausible that some people are sensitive to these things and others are not. Some people like (or even prefer the sound of MP3s), or can't tell the difference between them and CDs. Some people can.

Some people can tell the difference between Canadian and American accents, and others can't. Some people pay lots of money for French wines ... to other people it is just plonk. Such is life.
 

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