Running in a pair of cm6, had them playing for about 20hours and they are still no where near my old cm5 s1. Called bw and was told they need about 72 hours. Is that for real or they are having me on?
many thanks
many thanks
Running speakers.
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chebby
Well-known member
You are running in CM6s when you already have PMC Twenty 21s?
What went wrong? The Twenty 21s can only be about 2 years old at most.
What went wrong? The Twenty 21s can only be about 2 years old at most.
chebby
Well-known member
Animesh Ghose said:
Depends on the manufacturer what you get told. Some say get them to room temperature and play something fairly loud for a few minutes. (Harbeth.) Others seem to require weeks or months of 'running in' (depending on how often per day you listen).
If you listened for a couple of hours a day, 6 days per week and someone told you to wait for 72 hours ( = 6 weeks) then i'd tell them where to shove it because that exceeds the dealer's returns period leaving you without the option to take them back if you don't like them after they've 'burnt in'.
I suspect if you don't like them after 20 hours then you aren't going to like them full-stop. That is because I believe that 'burn-in' or 'run-in' are myths (or at least take only a small fraction of what we are told by manufacturers and dealers). The biggest part of the whole process is your brain getting used to a new sound and trying to forget it's own 'myths' about what the old pair sounded like.
**** around with positioning the new speakers and see if that helps. It can make a profoundly bigger difference than holding your breath until the speakers have 'run-in'
The OP didn't like the PMC's.
As to running them in ... I can't remember the last time I had to do that with speakers (my Usher's) but my Grado Headphone's certainly 'relaxed' in the first two or three days.
You say 'no where near' which is a little worrying. Whilst I would expect some slight changes it probably won't be drastic.
Perhaps they are different but better for it once you get used to it?
Hope they work out for you.
As to running them in ... I can't remember the last time I had to do that with speakers (my Usher's) but my Grado Headphone's certainly 'relaxed' in the first two or three days.
You say 'no where near' which is a little worrying. Whilst I would expect some slight changes it probably won't be drastic.
Perhaps they are different but better for it once you get used to it?
Hope they work out for you.
chebby said:
i had the 21s for about 9 months, kept getting haunted by the bw sounds so decided to went back to the bw.
Animesh Ghose said:
I found the CM5 S2 took less time to run in compared to the CM5 S1. My S2 played decent after 20 hours while the S1 took about 150 hours to run in.
drummerman said:
hi fi is indeed a very strange hobby. I am not changing any of my system, no matter how good or bad thay soung , for atleast another 6 months, lol
When was the last time you heard the CM5s? You loved them, then you loved the 21s more, now you went for a third different speaker which you hate while still referencing to the CM5. When people are lost they run in circles.
Vladimir said:
i heard the cm5s last time before i sold them which was just before xmas. I got nothing against the 21s they sounded great but i wanted to get back to bw and do 1 better hence the cm6. Hopefully they will be fine as thing stands i think 21s sounded more refined but with time cm6 with will get better.
Nothing gets better or worse . Either you like it or you wont in the first place.Like they said you get used to the sound. Its a placebo.If you miss something now you will miss it after 6 months also. Why not audition some more speakers now. Some Kefs Maybe. Food for thoughts..
Suspect this is a case of the rose tinted glasses effect.
Chances are if you went back to the CM5's you'd be disappointed.
Keep playing your music - I'm of the opinion burn in is real I've experienced it myself - the CM's have pretty exotic materials that make up their cones. They will take time to loosen.
Like new jeans ....
Chances are if you went back to the CM5's you'd be disappointed.
Keep playing your music - I'm of the opinion burn in is real I've experienced it myself - the CM's have pretty exotic materials that make up their cones. They will take time to loosen.
Like new jeans ....
I find that speakers do seem to need a bit of time, but every speaker I've owned has well and truly needed in after 10 hours or so. There may be some changes after that but after 30 hours my ears and brain have fully adjusted the new sound.
I agree that there may be rose tinted glasses involved and if you heard the two speakers side by side you'd realize that the old speakers weren't as good as you remember them to be. Then again, I find the S2 to have tighter bass and maybe you crave the slightly flabbier bass of the CM5 s1.
I agree that there may be rose tinted glasses involved and if you heard the two speakers side by side you'd realize that the old speakers weren't as good as you remember them to be. Then again, I find the S2 to have tighter bass and maybe you crave the slightly flabbier bass of the CM5 s1.
DocG
Well-known member
Al ears
Well-known member
chebby said:Animesh Ghose said:
Depends on the manufacturer what you get told. Some say get them to room temperature and play something fairly loud for a few minutes. (Harbeth.) Others seem to require weeks or months of 'running in' (depending on how often per day you listen).
If you listened for a couple of hours a day, 6 days per week and someone told you to wait for 72 hours ( = 6 weeks) then i'd tell them where to shove it because that exceeds the dealer's returns period leaving you without the option to take them back if you don't like them after they've 'burnt in'.
I suspect if you don't like them after 20 hours then you aren't going to like them full-stop. That is because I believe that 'burn-in' or 'run-in' are myths (or at least take only a small fraction of what we are told by manufacturers and dealers). The biggest part of the whole process is your brain getting used to a new sound and trying to forget it's own 'myths' about what the old pair sounded like.
**** around with positioning the new speakers and see if that helps. It can make a profoundly bigger difference than holding your breath until the speakers have 'run-in'
+1 Call me an old sceptic if you like but I too consider running-in to be very much overrated. If you don't like them after a day they are not suddenly going to show a massive improvement after 72 hours, and if you continue thinking that they will then that is what your brain will finally tell you.
With all of my speakers in the past I played one LP and, if they didn't really cut the mustard after that they were gone.
Unlike a lot of Hifi old wives tales, at least running-in speakers could have a grain of sense underlying it. I can just about imagine that the compliance of the elastomer cone surround and spider on high-excursion (bass) drivers might change over time with usage.
I can't imagine however that it will be a large change, or that there will be a 'night and day' difference. I have searched the web and I can't find a single frequency response test comparing speakers out of the box, with the same speaker after a period of use.
Back in the day when I used to do this sort of thing for a living, we never worried about 'running speakers in', nor did anyone I know refer to it.
I would really like to see some real data on this (it wouldn't be hard to test), but my best guess is that if there is any effect that it will be small and probably not audible.
I can't imagine however that it will be a large change, or that there will be a 'night and day' difference. I have searched the web and I can't find a single frequency response test comparing speakers out of the box, with the same speaker after a period of use.
Back in the day when I used to do this sort of thing for a living, we never worried about 'running speakers in', nor did anyone I know refer to it.
I would really like to see some real data on this (it wouldn't be hard to test), but my best guess is that if there is any effect that it will be small and probably not audible.
Frank Harvey
Well-known member
The CM5 model was improved with the S2 model which were cleaner in the bass (some components were swapped out, particularly one major one which is the same component as used in the 800 series). The CM6 is the same driver and cabinet as the CM5, but with the addition of the "bully" tweeter situated outside the cabinet, which brought pretty big gains in their HF detail, creation of acoustic space, and sound far less 'confined' than the CM5 did. This difference can also be heard between the CM9 and CM10.
If you like CM5 S1, I can't comprehend why you'd be disappointed with the CM6. Although I have known people in the past who don't like it when a system can produce space around instruments, and prefer everything "lumped in" together, so to speak.
If you like CM5 S1, I can't comprehend why you'd be disappointed with the CM6. Although I have known people in the past who don't like it when a system can produce space around instruments, and prefer everything "lumped in" together, so to speak.
There are measured differances after a speaker has run for say 50 hours. I have to play lots of new speaker to test them after I have built them, they always sound fantastic straight away. They do mellow a little but they are not going to suddenly sound good if you dont like them now!
iQ Speakers said:
IQ, can you link to a study? or if the measurements are your own, can you post so that we can see them?
It would be very interesting to see just what exactly changes and by how much.
Thanks every1, today being sunday i got a bit of time to play around the speakers and having played them at fairly high volume -35 db according to my amp, speakers have opened up rather nicely, specially the bass, it got a lot cleaner as oppose to muffled. Tweeter on top does make a huge differnce, it does presents a wider sound stage. This is the BW sound i have always enjoyed and this is the sound i was looking for.
Money well spent (a lot of it for my liking)
Money well spent (a lot of it for my liking)
iceman16
Well-known member
SteveR750
Well-known member
andyjm said:
I agree Andy, and some drivers seem to change more than others. For example, some of the new car stereo drivers have become smoother and more extended less distorted bass after a few hours of heavy use, whereas the ATC drivers don't appear to have changed at all. FWIW Ben Lilly of ATC doesn't think they're is any driver burn in that alters the sound. Maybe some (cheaper?) drivers might undergo bigger changes in mechanical properties than better designed and manufactured drivers.
On a slightly different topic, I'm not entirely convinced that our auditory memory is that poor. As an example we're able to recognise voices that we've not heard for several years, and probably can't them out in a crowd of other voices. Similarly, we're able to memorise harmony and pitch pretty well too, I don't have to think too hard when I pick the guitar up and improvise, though in that instance there is a strong visual guide so perhaps not a great example.
SteveR750 said:
Maybe if Ben Lilly didn't make ATC speakers with voice coils as big as sperm whale nipple rings he might think otherwise.
SteveR750
Well-known member
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