. . . remove the 2mm . . . ?

[CJSF]

Well now, I was prepared to accept the Rega line on VTA . . . 'it ain't that important?' until I read the blurb on the Ortofon test record sleeve, there is a sweet spot, they say. I have been disappointed by one or two LP's from Proprius, they were OK but I remember better? Accepted it as a down grade thing comparing present equipment with my audiophile dream system of the 80's.

As Chebby says, the incurable tweaker that I am, I sat and mused . . . and mused . . . then a eureka moment . . . made a few test listening, sat hazel down, eyes closed and listen, don't open the eyes till I say. I played the same three 30 second snippets from the same track with changes. OK Hazel, which did you prefer? . . . with little hesitation, "the third one" she said . . . bingo! I was not kidding myself.

We have listened for the past 90 minutes to our favourite tracks with a new insight, image depth, image width, image height, all improved . . . instant leading edge dynamics, air around the image with easy perception of individual positioning and an ambiance on the live recordings I have 'never' heard before? An unexpected bonus the listening position was less critical, be off center and get the same sort of presentation as in an auditorium when off to the side, the image was still there.

Apart from the ambiance, all that we have heard to night is an 'improvement' of the developing vinyl system over the past couple of weeks. The heart of which is becoming the turntable cartridge. I thought we had reached the limit of a £150mm cartridge at the weekend . . . but it is still delivering more!

So what have I done? simple . . . removed the 2mm felt platter mat from the P5, record direct on the glass platter. Question; is it the direct contact of vinyl to glass that is making the difference or is it the effective 2mm change in VTA height? According to Ortofon it is the VTA . . . me, I'm on the fence, so, order a set of shims and do a proper job and see . . . ?

OK . . . Chebby, I'm an incurable tweaker, but I promise, I do stop when I get it right . . .

I dont think removing the platter mat is a new idea, but I did it for a 2mm VTA change.

CJSF

 

[chebby]

I'll say it again, you have the wrong turntable and arm for your kind of super-analytical listening.

There are some tonearms that allow arm height adjustment 'on the fly'. This would enable you to set the VTA for each album. You could then record the details on a card and pop it in the sleeve so that every subsequent play of that album would be 'perfect' for you after the necessary adjustment.

The reason for the felt mat is to allow LPs to be flipped over or changed without stopping and starting the motor every time.

I am not going to continue arguing the case for the Rega approach to vinyl replay that served me well for 26 years from the first RB300 equipped Planar 3 (in 1983) until my last Rega was sold a couple of years ago. Apart from some care over ensuring a rigid, light, level platform - and siting away from speakers - they were the opposite of 'needy' or 'tweaky' decks and I always loved the plain A3 instruction sheet, packed with common sense, that always erred on the side of...

"leave the b####y thing alone and play records instead"

 

[MajorFubar]

I'm just in the process of filling-in some forms to nominate Hazel for sainthood.

 

[The_Lhc]

I'm just in the process of filling-in some forms to nominate Hazel for sainthood.

That seems a little harsh...

 

[MajorFubar]

I guess humour doesn't work well on internet forums.

 

[The_Lhc]

I guess humour doesn't work well on internet forums.

Clearly not as you've missed my joke completely...

 

[John Duncan]

I guess humour doesn't work well on internet forums.

This is The_LHC we're talking about here...

 

[CJSF]

I'll say it again, you have the wrong turntable and arm for your kind of super-analytical listening.

There are some tonearms that allow arm height adjustment 'on the fly'. This would enable you to set the VTA for each album. You could then record the details on a card and pop it in the sleeve so that every subsequent play of that album would be 'perfect' for you after the necessary adjustment.

The reason for the felt mat is to allow LPs to be flipped over or changed without stopping and starting the motor every time.

I am not going to continue arguing the case for the Rega approach to vinyl replay that served me well for 26 years from the first RB300 equipped Planar 3 (in 1983) until my last Rega was sold a couple of years ago. Apart from some care over ensuring a rigid, light, level platform - and siting away from speakers - they were the opposite of 'needy' or 'tweaky' decks and I always loved the plain A3 instruction sheet, packed with common sense, that always erred on the side of...

"leave the b####y thing alone and play records instead"

Chebby I think you have it all wrong . . . When I get things right I leave well alone, but am a bit of a terrier, I dont stop until right is achieved. You dont have to fight any one's corner, Rega have my respect, and they acknowledge the need for some VTA adjustment with the shims and sleeved bolt. As for the mat, I will see if it has any sonic affect, fit shims, replace mat, listen, and decide . . . be interesting to see what the outcome will be, I have the feeling there will be a halfway house . . . ??

One wonders if the CD era has rather dulled the old enthusiasm and necessity of adjustment, in the days when vinyl ruled? . . . I would rather put a CD on these days when I feel like relaxing, after or during a meal for instance, I need to be in the mood for vinyl, all that jumping up and down every 15 minutes!

I gnawed away at speaker cable for a while, now happy, K20, running in the revers direction to how I was told, it works for me, job don, forget. You were happy with the Rega as supplied . . . but you wanted better, upgrade on stylus? We all want more, for me its simply to get the best out of what I have paid 'hard earned' for . . . half measures are not good enough. Having finally tracked down a way through to better presentation from the Rega, half proved the point? its a fairly simple job to take it through to the end result, whatever that might eventually be? But for sure, I'm heading for a stunning presentation, from a modest system, that Hazel and I can enjoy listening to music with. Incidentally, we have not needed to touch the CD side of our system since the broken bell boards and granite slabs, its doing a really nice job as far as CD's go . . . just getting into the collection, got a long way to go:dance:

I'm just in the process of filling-in some forms to nominate Hazel for sainthood.

Hazel is a Saint already Major-Fubar, she has put up with my moods for many years, lets hope thats a thing of the past, I'm moving on to a new life, positive thought . . . unfortunately it seems, the positive side of my personality has dragged with it, the perfectionist in me. A good thing in some cases, but one must be carfull to keep it under control, potential disappointment, and one heads for depresions'vile!

She enjoys listening to music with me, its a new part of here life, she might be naive hifi wise. but musically she has a good ear.

CJSF

 

[The_Lhc]

I guess humour doesn't work well on internet forums.

This is The_LHC we're talking about here...

Yes, my humour is way over the heads of mere mortals...

 

[chebby]

One more thing, do you have the small tungsten counterweight or the larger steel counterweight on your arm? The small, denser, tungsten one is best. They used to be standard on the Planar 3/RB300. Not sure which one is standard on your RB700.

If you have the larger (steel) counterweight, the tungsten one is a worthwhile upgrade (order it from your Rega dealer for about £60 I think.)

However, I know you will probably end up, one-day, with the RB700 in a bench vice trying to remove the counterweight stub in order to fit one of a selection of alternative devices from Michell or Origin Live (or when re-wiring the arm yourself which will also - inevitably - happen )

Remember that GrooveTracer make acrylic platters for the P5 and so does a German company called Tizo in Germany.

Inspire Hifi here in the UK have loads of mods for Regas too.

 

[the record spot]

Have to agree with Chebby; Rega decks and tweaking are at opposite ends of the spectrum. I bought a 2mm spacer for the Audio Technica AT440MLa a couple of years ago and while it went on without a hitch, it's not something I'd especially want to do all the time.

 

[MajorFubar]

unfortunately it seems, the positive side of my personality has dragged with it, the perfectionist in me.

lol I can relate to that . My OCD's so bad I've purposefully stripped my hifi of nearly everything I can adjust and fiddle wth :rofl:

 

[CJSF]

unfortunately it seems, the positive side of my personality has dragged with it, the perfectionist in me.

lol I can relate to that . My OCD's so bad I've purposefully stripped my hifi of nearly everything I can adjust and fiddle wth :rofl:

Ah . . . but does it sound better now it denuded . . . ? 8)

CJSF

 

[CJSF]

One more thing, do you have the small tungsten counterweight or the larger steel counterweight on your arm? The small, denser, tungsten one is best. They used to be standard on the Planar 3/RB300. Not sure which one is standard on your RB700.

If you have the larger (steel) counterweight, the tungsten one is a worthwhile upgrade (order it from your Rega dealer for about £60 I think.)

However, I know you will probably end up, one-day, with the RB700 in a bench vice trying to remove the counterweight stub in order to fit one of a selection of alternative devices from Michell or Origin Live (or when re-wiring the arm yourself which will also - inevitably - happen )

Remember that GrooveTracer make acrylic platters for the P5 and so does a German company called Tizo in Germany.

Inspire Hifi here in the UK have loads of mods for Regas too.

Chebby, I was told it was the heavy counter weight . . .

Further upgrades are not really of interest, but maximising what I have spent money on is important to me. The sort of major musical improvement I experienced Sunday night, cost me nothing . . . although in the end, I will make an out lay of £25 for the shims to do the job properly, no great problem. Its about keeping it simple and cost effective in my mind, ever was, although in those days, it was relative, I could justify the expense. My recent cable experiments cost me less than £100 and I had to buy new longer cable anyway, so in truth, it actually cost half that.

I can see me settling for the way things are shaping, sitting back and enjoying the music with my Hazel. If I won the lottery, (I wont cos I rarely do it), but if I did, then would probably mirror the system I had back in the 80's, the heart of that system was; Townsend Rock with Merlin power supply, Excaliber tone arm with silicon trough and a fully denuded Ortofon SPU Gold, stepped up into an EAR MC transformer. The preamp was our own valve design, and a pair of EAR 509's, into LS35a's, later replace by the PMC LB1's.

That system stayed vertualy un-tweaked for 5 years, I did try a couple of times but it was obvious it had grown as a unit, changes only produced generaly unsatisfying sideways moves. In my humble opinion, the real engine of the system was the SPU Gold/EAR MC transformer, when have you ever seen an SPU cartridge in a conventional arm and therefore heard its true potential . . . believe me it is awsom.

So, I know where I'm going, I know where its unlikly I will ever go again? and I know the changes that are worthwhile and work. Most audiophile options are mega expensive, offer minute improvements, making cost efactiveness very low, in relation to pleasure given in return.

I'm nearly there, cost, £20-30? I'm not saying I wont upgrade the system???? . . . but, I am very happy with the musicality and presentation of my simple 'vinyl/CD' 2 channel music player for the forseable future.

. . . 'never say never' . . . :dance: CJSF

 

[chebby]

... into LS35a's, later replace by the PMC LB1's.

Back when you first joined us, you mentioned you still had those Rogers LS3/5As and that they were in A1 condition and finished in white Ash veneer.

Have you sold them yet? As described, they should net you a small fortune from some collector on ebay. (A 'reserve' of £1000 would not be out of order.)

Just for interest, a list of recently completed sales of BBC LS3/5A speakers.

 

[CJSF]

... into LS35a's, later replace by the PMC LB1's.

Back when you first joined us, you mentioned you still had those Rogers LS3/5As and that they were in A1 condition and finished in white Ash veneer.

Have you sold them yet? As described, they should net you a small fortune from some collector on ebay. (A 'reserve' of £1000 would not be out of order.)

Just for interest, a list of recently completed sales of BBC LS3/5A speakers.

Never come to light Chebby, . . . although there are two areas of the present house, one, a shed and two, an out house, that I have not sorted since I moved her 10 years ago . . . As you have probably gathered by now, my health and memory of the period from 1995 to the end of last year is very hazy, I may have sold them when I sold the amplifiers and deck . . . I'm also missing (mislaid?) a pair of SL600's and SL6's?

If I did, gutted I am, if not, I have a pleasant surprise to come? Never the less, I'm glad I hung on to the LB1's

CJSF