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When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Rega Elex-R Amplifier
- Thread starter Happy_Listner
- Start date
personally not no, but if it anywhere between the Elicit R & Brio R then it is a lovely amp - you have a turntable so it is a very good candidate as the phono stage is superb in it.
Go and have a listen to one and report back here??
Go and have a listen to one and report back here??
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Should be well worth a listen. I've heard the Brio-R, Elicit-R and the Osiris and IMO they are all at the top of their respective classes, so I wouldn't expect the Elex-R to be any different. Rega make superb kit.
jonathanRD
Well-known member
I asked a similar question back in August http://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/new-rega-elex-r-amplifier?page=8#comment-849806
Only one reply from CREEPY who wrote;
'Yes, I demo'd the amp only a few weeks ago. I initally went to re-demo an all Rega system that I had heard a few months earlier but had failed to get on with (though this time, for some reason, I really liked it). Anyway I asked to listen to a few other options whilst I was there and an Elex-r was promptly wheeled out.
What can I say, if you like the Brio you will love the Elex. It is a truly excellent amp with noticeably better bass depth and definition and a truly 3D soundstage. I put on an Elbow track and Guy Garvey's voice was pushed forward of the rest of the band, lending the song real depth. The Brio R gave no indication of this depth at all even though I tried both amps with several speakers (RS1, RS3 and RS5). However, and here is the rub, I still bought the Brio because to really appreciate the brilliance of the amp, I needed to go with the RS5's (yep, not even the RS3's were good enough) and I could not quite afford to do this.
So go and demo it in full confidence that the Elex-R will easily better the Brio, as long as you invest in the appropiate speakers as well.'
So hopefully in a few weeks time I will arrange a demo and report back in due course.
Only one reply from CREEPY who wrote;
'Yes, I demo'd the amp only a few weeks ago. I initally went to re-demo an all Rega system that I had heard a few months earlier but had failed to get on with (though this time, for some reason, I really liked it). Anyway I asked to listen to a few other options whilst I was there and an Elex-r was promptly wheeled out.
What can I say, if you like the Brio you will love the Elex. It is a truly excellent amp with noticeably better bass depth and definition and a truly 3D soundstage. I put on an Elbow track and Guy Garvey's voice was pushed forward of the rest of the band, lending the song real depth. The Brio R gave no indication of this depth at all even though I tried both amps with several speakers (RS1, RS3 and RS5). However, and here is the rub, I still bought the Brio because to really appreciate the brilliance of the amp, I needed to go with the RS5's (yep, not even the RS3's were good enough) and I could not quite afford to do this.
So go and demo it in full confidence that the Elex-R will easily better the Brio, as long as you invest in the appropiate speakers as well.'
So hopefully in a few weeks time I will arrange a demo and report back in due course.
If it's as reliable as the Brio-R or Elicit-R, I'd steer clear from it.
For the same issues (humm, noise, circuitry failure) not to occur, the transformer needs to be shielded (or obscured from the PCB by a heatsink) and either install a massive toroid with large headroom or keep the quiescent current down (stressed toroid = humm). Looking at some photos I see the transformer is not shielded and the volume pot is only 1" away.
If Mr. Darwin is reading us, maybe he can tell us the quiscent current. I'm hoping under 100mA.
Soundwise I can't comment since I haven't auditioned it.
"Looks like our Naim Nait 5si finally has some competition and even though the Elex-R is a kind of hybrid love child of the Brio-R and Elicit-R, it's sound is more a kin to the Elicit-R."
http://blog.audiot.co.uk/manchester/2014/6/27/a-brief-encounterthe-rega-elex-r-pays-a-quick-visit-to-manch.html
For the same issues (humm, noise, circuitry failure) not to occur, the transformer needs to be shielded (or obscured from the PCB by a heatsink) and either install a massive toroid with large headroom or keep the quiescent current down (stressed toroid = humm). Looking at some photos I see the transformer is not shielded and the volume pot is only 1" away.
If Mr. Darwin is reading us, maybe he can tell us the quiscent current. I'm hoping under 100mA.
Soundwise I can't comment since I haven't auditioned it.
"Looks like our Naim Nait 5si finally has some competition and even though the Elex-R is a kind of hybrid love child of the Brio-R and Elicit-R, it's sound is more a kin to the Elicit-R."
http://blog.audiot.co.uk/manchester/2014/6/27/a-brief-encounterthe-rega-elex-r-pays-a-quick-visit-to-manch.html
Hi-FiOutlaw
Well-known member
All I can say is that I had a Brio R for one year and my unit never hummed or had any funny noise coming out of any channel!
We had some thread in this forum as well regarding this problem, and IMO it is from polluted mains, and not due any design configuration!
We had some thread in this forum as well regarding this problem, and IMO it is from polluted mains, and not due any design configuration!
Covenanter
Well-known member
Hi-FiOutlaw said:
If it is mains hum that is being heard, and 50Hz hum is quite easy to recognise (60Hz in the US), it can't really be from "polluted mains". You can't pollute something which is at 50Hz with 50Hz noise! Whilst I don't doubt that there was no hum from your amp that doesn't mean there isn't a design weakness. Transformers are very individual as they are basically just wires wound round a "former" and slight differences in geometry and the tightness of the windings can lead to different performances and noise characteristics. All transformers give off some level of electrical signals, impossible for them not to. All Vlad is saying, if I read him correctly, is that designs can mitigate the likelihood of this causing a problem and he thinks that this design does not.
Chris
PS If anyone doesn't know what mains hum sounds like they can just Google "Mains hum".
Hi-FiOutlaw
Well-known member
I don't think Rega engineers are a bunch of amators, other wise they could be unemployed! And I don't think that Rega would sell a amp with a disign problem!I'm not a engineer or a technician of any kind, but I do know what is a mains hum, i've heard it manny times in my parents old home, and not only from the amp, i could hear it also fromthe TV and some time from the radio. I've live in new homes for 25 years and my amps never hummed since. Coincidence, don't think so...
If the mains introduce DC making the transformer hum then its an external enviroment issues. That can be easily fixed with a voltage stabilzier and filter. Some would comment that even this is a design flaw and consumer should not further invest in additional power filters and stabilziers. But this is h-fi, anything goes.
The best way to do it, reference for all manufacturers, is how Marantz does it, IMO.
Naim Nait 5si
Rega Brio-R
Rega Elicit-R
Exposure 3010s2
Roksan Caspian M2
Arcam FMJ A-32
NAD C 375 BEE
Cambridge Audio 851A
The best way to do it, reference for all manufacturers, is how Marantz does it, IMO.
Naim Nait 5si
Rega Brio-R
Rega Elicit-R
Exposure 3010s2
Roksan Caspian M2
Arcam FMJ A-32
NAD C 375 BEE
Cambridge Audio 851A
radiorog
Well-known member
Not heard elex yet sorry to op, but am very interested. On the him topic, I had 3 (or was it 4) brio-rs. Two of them had noticeable hum that meant they could not be kept as him was simply too loud. One of them,the one I currently have, has no him at all. I totally agree with the poster (sorry,can't remember who) who stated that each toroidal thingy is unique, as I had this suspicion when going through my issues. As I used the same mains,it can't be a mains problem. Would I recommend one? Yes,but with caution. Only if I knew I could replace if any issues arouse,because there were many people on the internet complaining of hum. The brio is lovely sounding bit of kit for 50w, but yes, has very little 3d imaging or deep soundstage. I guess a few more watts are needed.
radiorog
Well-known member
radiorog
Well-known member
Not heard elex yet sorry to op, but am very interested. On the hum topic, I had 3 (or was it 4) brio-rs. Two of them had noticeable hum that meant they could not be kept as hum was simply too loud. One of them,the one I currently have, has no hum at all. I totally agree with the poster (sorry,can't remember who) who stated that each toroidal thingy is unique, as I had this suspicion when going through my issues. As I used the same mains,it can't be a mains problem. Would I recommend one? Yes,but with caution. Only if I knew I could replace if any issues arose,because there were many people on the internet complaining of hum. The brio is lovely sounding bit of kit for 50w, but yes, has very little 3d imaging or deep soundstage. I guess a few more watts are needed.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Nothing to worry about with Rega IMO. Excellent company, excellent products. Audition, and if you like it, enjoy it when you get it home.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
matthewpiano said:
Yup, that's the trick. Stuff reputation and reviews, if it sounds good in your own environment then you're home and dry.
Hey Vlad,
I have an old Creek 4330 I'm using and it hums quite a bit. Through the casework and through the speakers I can hear it. Putting my hand on top of the Creek I can even feel it vibrate. This is one of the main reasons it's time for me to upgrade. Do you think it's because it's old? Any chance of fire or meltdown?
Anyways, I have had more than dozen amps in my system over the years, in the same location, and none of them hummed. So I guess I can't blame my mains voltage can I?
Back to the shielded mains transformer, I noticed the Marantz has one but most of the other amps do not? Or are they using the heat sink to shield it?
Vald, you know way more about this than I do, Thanks.
I have an old Creek 4330 I'm using and it hums quite a bit. Through the casework and through the speakers I can hear it. Putting my hand on top of the Creek I can even feel it vibrate. This is one of the main reasons it's time for me to upgrade. Do you think it's because it's old? Any chance of fire or meltdown?
Anyways, I have had more than dozen amps in my system over the years, in the same location, and none of them hummed. So I guess I can't blame my mains voltage can I?
Back to the shielded mains transformer, I noticed the Marantz has one but most of the other amps do not? Or are they using the heat sink to shield it?
Vald, you know way more about this than I do, Thanks.
Vladimir said:
Interesting. Thanks!
Made me want to check what the inside of my RZ-1 looks like. Being an all in one unit, it looks like they've used the transport mechanism for that purpose.
Happy_Listner said:
The 4330 has absolutely no shielding. All of the magnetic flux bombards the naked electronics increasing noise and distortion (in the Linn & Naim ethos known as PRaT and foot tapping). But I'd imagine its not that bad since the transformer is small and at a distance. However, that means less PRaT, mind you. *ROFL*
Having no transformer shielding is not the reason for the hum. It might be mains DC filth, quiescent current out of calibration, cold solder joint, the transformer windings and core just loosened up and developed a hum due to age and use.
The Creek can be easily fixed. Most likely a squirt of Deoxit and small calibration of the quescent current is all ti needs. I personally would recap, clean and re-calibrate the unit, make it as good as new for the next 20 years. You can even change the transformer if it developed a hum due to age, they are not that expensive and the 4330 has modest needs.
A massive Noratel 1000VA-1500VA transformer with custom wound secondary rails costs under 200$ delivered. I'd imagine much much less than that for a standard stock Noratel at only 350VA for the Creek 4330. You can even buy a transformer with a metal shield dome and have less noise in your sound.
To clean and adjust the quiescent current, you can do this yourself. To recap and/or change a transformer maybe best leave it to a service tehnician if you haven't fixed electronics before. Why not ask for a quote for normal service maintanance from a local tech guy?
matthewpiano
Well-known member
To be honest, I think Mike Creek and Terry Bateman know how to design a good amplifier. Some of the best integrateds I've heard have come from Creek and Rega.
It's all relative Matt. If compared to Nelson Pass, Dan D'Agostino and John Curl, I would have to disagree.
nopiano
Well-known member
Not sure how to embed a pic, but mine is here:-
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/168204-take-picture-your-krell-kav-300i-please.html
Do I take it that the can around the transformer is shielding, Vlad?
I can appreciate Matthew's thinking, but I must say that back in the 80's most British gear was very much made to the most minimal standards. Even the much vaunted Quad used to blow up regularly. You needed heavyweight Jap gear to get really quiet electronics.
Back on topic, would the noisy Creek be improved simply by checking the transformer is actually bolted down securely?
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/168204-take-picture-your-krell-kav-300i-please.html
Do I take it that the can around the transformer is shielding, Vlad?
I can appreciate Matthew's thinking, but I must say that back in the 80's most British gear was very much made to the most minimal standards. Even the much vaunted Quad used to blow up regularly. You needed heavyweight Jap gear to get really quiet electronics.
Back on topic, would the noisy Creek be improved simply by checking the transformer is actually bolted down securely?
The metal can in which the transformer sits is shielding, together with the metal cap. Such stamped metal can costs next to nothing so budgeting by leaving naked transformers is just not an argument, IMO.
Building kits from Wireless World magazine in your shed was the way to start a UK Hi-Fi company in those days. Get a BBC tender gig and off you go. But that isn't really an excuse.
Here is a simple shed made Exposure IV, but it has compartments, simple steel bracket to separate the noisy PSU from the PCBs.
Here is a Naim NAP 250.
chebby
Well-known member
chebby said:
Looks absolutely beautiful. Double rectification on power stage AND pre-amp. Delicious.
How about a C-core transformer shielded sitting in a metal can and dipped in rubbery resin.
We can criticise British build quality all day. However, one has to take in consideration that cultures differ and the British mind is one of exploration, not perfecting the common. Japanes and German engineers far more value things being perfected ad infinitum. The British engineering mind explores, discovers and continues onwards. They get bored easily but can you blame them. They are stuck on an island where it blo*dy rains all the time.
-There you go, it sounds marvelous. Stop fiddling with it, that'll do. We need to catch a plane to go walk across Antarctica.
We can criticise British build quality all day. However, one has to take in consideration that cultures differ and the British mind is one of exploration, not perfecting the common. Japanes and German engineers far more value things being perfected ad infinitum. The British engineering mind explores, discovers and continues onwards. They get bored easily but can you blame them. They are stuck on an island where it blo*dy rains all the time.
-There you go, it sounds marvelous. Stop fiddling with it, that'll do. We need to catch a plane to go walk across Antarctica.
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