I'm NOT doubting the quality of the NAD C545BEE CDP (I think it's sound is superb and it works very well in my system) BUT... I'm toying with the idea of having a Rega Apollo on home demo so that I can demo them both side by side and see how they go! Sounds daft but in my last system (Arcam Alpha 10 integrated and M/A RS6 speakers); I had an Arcam CD72 AND and Arcam Alpha 7SE CDP as the 7SE was superb for vocal music or older music (i.e. Jethro Tull, Bonzo Dog, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin et al) and the CD72 was brilliant for modern Electronica and heavier, harder music (Massive Attack, Fischerspooner, Layo & Bushwacka and the likes) I had heard both the Apollo and C545BEE with the NAD amp and the M/A RX2's and RX6's but on seperate occasions at different shops so couldnt really get a full idea of the difference in the same room. Hence why I think having the Apollo on a home demo may be a kill or cure (i.e. keep the C545BEE CDP as it was the right choice OR sell the C545BEE and take the Apollo on) Any thoughts?
-
When should you upgrade your hi-fi? How to control ‘upgradeitis’
Rega Apollo - Am I crazy?
- Thread starter d_a_n1979
- Start date
matthewpiano
Well-known member
plastic penguin
Well-known member
Buy a Dacmagic, and connect it to the NAD. Gives you the option of streaming in the future and doesn't waste money on what some think is redundant technology.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
d_a_n1979:plastic penguin:(pp is walking around shaking his head)
What now?!?!?!
I have long arms...
The point I'm trying to make is: if I was to buy a Exposure 2010S it would be a decent improvement on the 73T. Then again, if I used a 192 that would be a decent improvement on the Exposure. But if I was buy a 192, the CDP would benefit from a better amp, like Leema Pulse. Yet for another £200 I could get top of the range Cyrus + built-in DAC.....
That's the problem with hi-fi and upgrading, it CAN spiral out of control and the sensible side turns into a sham, because you listen to so many different systems you become almost punch-drunk - more often than not reverting back to your original choices.
Best advice, rather testing and buying a plethora of brands, wait a year and with the money you could save, go out and buy a real stonker...instead, you could end up with a stinker (and a big headache).
I have long arms...
The point I'm trying to make is: if I was to buy a Exposure 2010S it would be a decent improvement on the 73T. Then again, if I used a 192 that would be a decent improvement on the Exposure. But if I was buy a 192, the CDP would benefit from a better amp, like Leema Pulse. Yet for another £200 I could get top of the range Cyrus + built-in DAC.....
That's the problem with hi-fi and upgrading, it CAN spiral out of control and the sensible side turns into a sham, because you listen to so many different systems you become almost punch-drunk - more often than not reverting back to your original choices.
Best advice, rather testing and buying a plethora of brands, wait a year and with the money you could save, go out and buy a real stonker...instead, you could end up with a stinker (and a big headache).
Can you stretch to the Saturn? The change would be a step up in my opinion, as opposed to a sideways step.
d_a_n1979:I'm NOT doubting the quality of the NAD C545BEE CDP (I think it's sound is superb and it works very well in my system) BUT... I'm toying with the idea of having a Rega Apollo on home demo so that I can demo them both side by side and see how they go! Sounds daft but in my last system (Arcam Alpha 10 integrated and M/A RS6 speakers); I had an Arcam CD72 AND and Arcam Alpha 7SE CDP as the 7SE was superb for vocal music or older music (i.e. Jethro Tull, Bonzo Dog, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin et al) and the CD72 was brilliant for modern Electronica and heavier, harder music (Massive Attack, Fischerspooner, Layo & Bushwacka and the likes) I had heard both the Apollo and C545BEE with the NAD amp and the M/A RX2's and RX6's but on seperate occasions at different shops so couldnt really get a full idea of the difference in the same room. Hence why I think having the Apollo on a home demo may be a kill or cure (i.e. keep the C545BEE CDP as it was the right choice OR sell the C545BEE and take the Apollo on) Any thoughts?
I think ... what an utterly pointless exercise.
'Superb' '... works very well ... ' - your own words. Why change for the sake of it and why change for something thats hardly going to be that much better?
I think ... what an utterly pointless exercise.
'Superb' '... works very well ... ' - your own words. Why change for the sake of it and why change for something thats hardly going to be that much better?
igglebert:Can you stretch to the Saturn? The change would be a step up in my opinion, as opposed to a sideways step.
I rember comparing the two with different rega amplification. It is quite a different player.
I rember comparing the two with different rega amplification. It is quite a different player.
each time I hear the Rx range the more I think they are a bit confused in portraying instruments in different layers.the rx2 might be better than the Rx6 in this.
plastic penguin
Well-known member
drummerman:
d_a_n1979:I'm NOT doubting the quality of the NAD C545BEE CDP (I think it's sound is superb and it works very well in my system) BUT... I'm toying with the idea of having a Rega Apollo on home demo so that I can demo them both side by side and see how they go! Sounds daft but in my last system (Arcam Alpha 10 integrated and M/A RS6 speakers); I had an Arcam CD72 AND and Arcam Alpha 7SE CDP as the 7SE was superb for vocal music or older music (i.e. Jethro Tull, Bonzo Dog, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin et al) and the CD72 was brilliant for modern Electronica and heavier, harder music (Massive Attack, Fischerspooner, Layo & Bushwacka and the likes) I had heard both the Apollo and C545BEE with the NAD amp and the M/A RX2's and RX6's but on seperate occasions at different shops so couldnt really get a full idea of the difference in the same room. Hence why I think having the Apollo on a home demo may be a kill or cure (i.e. keep the C545BEE CDP as it was the right choice OR sell the C545BEE and take the Apollo on) Any thoughts?
I think ... what an utterly pointless exercise.
'Superb' '... works very well ... ' - your own words. Why change for the sake of it and why change for something thats hardly going to be that much better?
Agreed: blimey, that's a first...
d_a_n1979:I'm NOT doubting the quality of the NAD C545BEE CDP (I think it's sound is superb and it works very well in my system) BUT... I'm toying with the idea of having a Rega Apollo on home demo so that I can demo them both side by side and see how they go! Sounds daft but in my last system (Arcam Alpha 10 integrated and M/A RS6 speakers); I had an Arcam CD72 AND and Arcam Alpha 7SE CDP as the 7SE was superb for vocal music or older music (i.e. Jethro Tull, Bonzo Dog, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin et al) and the CD72 was brilliant for modern Electronica and heavier, harder music (Massive Attack, Fischerspooner, Layo & Bushwacka and the likes) I had heard both the Apollo and C545BEE with the NAD amp and the M/A RX2's and RX6's but on seperate occasions at different shops so couldnt really get a full idea of the difference in the same room. Hence why I think having the Apollo on a home demo may be a kill or cure (i.e. keep the C545BEE CDP as it was the right choice OR sell the C545BEE and take the Apollo on) Any thoughts?
I think ... what an utterly pointless exercise.
'Superb' '... works very well ... ' - your own words. Why change for the sake of it and why change for something thats hardly going to be that much better?
Agreed: blimey, that's a first...
I feel your pain!
I've been at the doors of audio nirvana (my idea of it, occupied by me) and had them shut in my face. The 717 amp in the signature line below now is tainted by my thoughts of it being in need of repair work. So I hooked up the trusty - and rather brilliant, but lower down the ladder - AU-217 amp.
But it's brilliant. Just listening to Barry Diament's remaster for The Eagles "Desperado" album and it's superb. Okay, the bottom end isn't as deep as you might ask for, but what is there is articulate, and you don't feel like you're being shortchanged...acoustic guitar sounds wondferful, the piano on the title track is to die for. This amp cost me £33 all in, what am I missing here...?
The NAD kit is good, no question, for the money you hand over, you get - and always have - performance over and above the call of duty.
The Rega's no doubt also very good. Would it be the sea change you're hoping for? I would echo PP's earlier comments - about getting something for the extra cash that really represents a step up (and which Igglebert alluded to in his post).
But ultimately, it's about what we want from this stuff; are we buying with an objective, or an dream that can never be achieved. "Better" I'm not convinced of. I see the Leema Pulse and I'm sure it's magnificent, but I'm sitting listening to a tremendous little set-up that's delivering in spades.
Much of the time, I think the kit does deliver - it's the stuff that's played on it that lets it down. Diament's "Desperado" is testament to that, God knows, it's superb, you couldn't ask for a whole lot more to this. That and our expectations of it, of course. We always want "that little bit more".
Perhaps the solution is in understanding the questions we're asking before trying to assume we already know the answer.
I've been at the doors of audio nirvana (my idea of it, occupied by me) and had them shut in my face. The 717 amp in the signature line below now is tainted by my thoughts of it being in need of repair work. So I hooked up the trusty - and rather brilliant, but lower down the ladder - AU-217 amp.
But it's brilliant. Just listening to Barry Diament's remaster for The Eagles "Desperado" album and it's superb. Okay, the bottom end isn't as deep as you might ask for, but what is there is articulate, and you don't feel like you're being shortchanged...acoustic guitar sounds wondferful, the piano on the title track is to die for. This amp cost me £33 all in, what am I missing here...?
The NAD kit is good, no question, for the money you hand over, you get - and always have - performance over and above the call of duty.
The Rega's no doubt also very good. Would it be the sea change you're hoping for? I would echo PP's earlier comments - about getting something for the extra cash that really represents a step up (and which Igglebert alluded to in his post).
But ultimately, it's about what we want from this stuff; are we buying with an objective, or an dream that can never be achieved. "Better" I'm not convinced of. I see the Leema Pulse and I'm sure it's magnificent, but I'm sitting listening to a tremendous little set-up that's delivering in spades.
Much of the time, I think the kit does deliver - it's the stuff that's played on it that lets it down. Diament's "Desperado" is testament to that, God knows, it's superb, you couldn't ask for a whole lot more to this. That and our expectations of it, of course. We always want "that little bit more".
Perhaps the solution is in understanding the questions we're asking before trying to assume we already know the answer.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
What a good post RS.
I think all this does need a sense of measure. It really is easy to develop unrealistic expectations of what 'other' kit might be capable of.
I think all this does need a sense of measure. It really is easy to develop unrealistic expectations of what 'other' kit might be capable of.
Good post Mr Spot. Ultimaltely it's a cost benefit change that has to fit your wallet. I have doubts that even the Rega Saturn is going to wow enough to motivate the Visa to make a payment. It, might, just manage to tweak that little annoyance though...not that I think Dan has any of those in his set up.
jaxwired
Well-known member
Hi Dan,
I think I can chime in here. I've had the NAD 545 for over a year now. I also home demoed the Rega Apollo at one point when I was curious about an upgrade. I liked the NAD better. The Apollo is a really sweet machine and the top loading mechanism is very sexy and I loved it, but ultimately, the Apollo sounded much warmer in my system than the NAD. Your amp leans to the warm side so the lean, detailed, attacking sound of the 545 is perfect synergy to balance your amp. The NAD 545 is very underrated in my opinion. Extremely high VFM. By all means, demo the Apollo, but the NAD is great and your not likely to improve on it without substantial outlay.
I think I can chime in here. I've had the NAD 545 for over a year now. I also home demoed the Rega Apollo at one point when I was curious about an upgrade. I liked the NAD better. The Apollo is a really sweet machine and the top loading mechanism is very sexy and I loved it, but ultimately, the Apollo sounded much warmer in my system than the NAD. Your amp leans to the warm side so the lean, detailed, attacking sound of the 545 is perfect synergy to balance your amp. The NAD 545 is very underrated in my opinion. Extremely high VFM. By all means, demo the Apollo, but the NAD is great and your not likely to improve on it without substantial outlay.
RS, this is where hifi and I part company. "Desperado" is a good album irrespective of whether someone has tinkered with the electronics or not. Incidentally, I have an early pressing on vinyl plus the CD, both of which aren't big on bass so I assume that was the intention of the production.
Sounds like at heart you really want to keep the Sansui by the way
Sounds like at heart you really want to keep the Sansui by the way
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Agree Tarquinh, on all counts.
RS - be careful you don't persuade yourself to buy something more expensive if what you really want is the sound the little Sansui AU217 is making. I've done that too many times.
RS - be careful you don't persuade yourself to buy something more expensive if what you really want is the sound the little Sansui AU217 is making. I've done that too many times.
i think a lot of us regulars on the forum have these thoughts about whether what we have is better than what else is out there - matthewpiano is good example which we have all quite enjoyed following. i have a few points on this :-
1 - i once phoned a good retailer to ask about the new Musical Fidelity M6CD player and was asked pointedly what didnt i like about my Arcam and after a good think i said nothing really - and so he suggested unless i was unhappy then picking other items to try isnt going to help too much or even end nessarily well.
2 - these is a lot to be said for same make synergy of cd and amp which shouldnt be underestimated
3 - this is more contraversial but i think its worth mentioning - you may be able to get more out of the NAD for less than spending on a new player. by this i mean look at your mains cables etc as i have found that this gave me a good 25%+ improvement on my system so far and i only just started getting serious here
read my post called experimenting which has some developments on my sytem and see what you think
1 - i once phoned a good retailer to ask about the new Musical Fidelity M6CD player and was asked pointedly what didnt i like about my Arcam and after a good think i said nothing really - and so he suggested unless i was unhappy then picking other items to try isnt going to help too much or even end nessarily well.
2 - these is a lot to be said for same make synergy of cd and amp which shouldnt be underestimated
3 - this is more contraversial but i think its worth mentioning - you may be able to get more out of the NAD for less than spending on a new player. by this i mean look at your mains cables etc as i have found that this gave me a good 25%+ improvement on my system so far and i only just started getting serious here
read my post called experimenting which has some developments on my sytem and see what you think
jaxwired
Well-known member
crusaderlord:1 - i once phoned a good retailer to ask about the new Musical Fidelity M6CD player and was asked pointedly what didnt i like about my Arcam and after a good think i said nothing really - and so he suggested unless i was unhappy then picking other items to try isnt going to help too much or even end nessarily well.
I gotta say, I don't really agree with this stance. You shouldn't change or upgrade your equipment unless you are trying to address some deficiency with your existing gear? Isn't it possible that although your current setup is making you happy that an upgrade will make you even happier? Of course it is...
I do agree that upgrades can go bad. No doubt about it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to never upgrade. This is a hobby. Were talking about hifi here, not socks and underwear....
I gotta say, I don't really agree with this stance. You shouldn't change or upgrade your equipment unless you are trying to address some deficiency with your existing gear? Isn't it possible that although your current setup is making you happy that an upgrade will make you even happier? Of course it is...
I do agree that upgrades can go bad. No doubt about it, but I don't think that's a good enough reason to never upgrade. This is a hobby. Were talking about hifi here, not socks and underwear....
jax - i dont necessarily agree with this either but what it did was make me put my foot on the ball and consider better what and why i was doing it. i could have splashed out £2k on a new player which was fuelled more by a perceived need to see if something was better than a real disire to move on from my Arcam set up.
my point is more to take your time and consider other options - i decided to get more from what i had already and i beleive this was much more cost effective for me - my Arcams are now performing a good deal above what they were for a mere fraction of the Musical Fidelity outlay.
is it certainly a hobby for me and i do love upgrading and one day will i am sure get a new brand, but not just yet and i wont get into debt to do it either
my point is more to take your time and consider other options - i decided to get more from what i had already and i beleive this was much more cost effective for me - my Arcams are now performing a good deal above what they were for a mere fraction of the Musical Fidelity outlay.
is it certainly a hobby for me and i do love upgrading and one day will i am sure get a new brand, but not just yet and i wont get into debt to do it either
Try the apollo, as if you deem it much better, then you can sell your nad and buy it.
We are all wanting better sound and always looking at upgrades, so why not try it.
The apollo is a fantastic player for the money, but as I have never heard the nad, cannot tell you what it is like side to side.
Get a home demo if you can, then you can see what it REALLY sounds like with your kit in the room.
We are all wanting better sound and always looking at upgrades, so why not try it.
The apollo is a fantastic player for the money, but as I have never heard the nad, cannot tell you what it is like side to side.
Get a home demo if you can, then you can see what it REALLY sounds like with your kit in the room.
matthewpiano:Agree Tarquinh, on all counts.
RS - be careful you don't persuade yourself to buy something more expensive if what you really want is the sound the little Sansui AU217 is making. I've done that too many times.
Without wishing to derail the thread (I've got my own on this issue elsewhere on this page), the 217 delivers on many counts, but body and scale can sometimes be lacking - big orchestral works are present, but not quite correct. Bruckner's 7th needs more dynamic range to get the full scale from the lower tones present in the recording (we've got a few...!).
Plus, the Diament Desperado wins on midrange, vocals and guitar are just sublime. The earlier comment was really just to highlight that it does some elements incredibly well, but lacks elsewhere.
Hence, shortlisting, local dealers and trying to get as good a price as possible. Might be the 650A delivers all I need, might be it's something else I hadn't thought of. Either way, it won't be coming off Ebay and it won't be vintage.
RS - be careful you don't persuade yourself to buy something more expensive if what you really want is the sound the little Sansui AU217 is making. I've done that too many times.
Without wishing to derail the thread (I've got my own on this issue elsewhere on this page), the 217 delivers on many counts, but body and scale can sometimes be lacking - big orchestral works are present, but not quite correct. Bruckner's 7th needs more dynamic range to get the full scale from the lower tones present in the recording (we've got a few...!).
Plus, the Diament Desperado wins on midrange, vocals and guitar are just sublime. The earlier comment was really just to highlight that it does some elements incredibly well, but lacks elsewhere.
Hence, shortlisting, local dealers and trying to get as good a price as possible. Might be the 650A delivers all I need, might be it's something else I hadn't thought of. Either way, it won't be coming off Ebay and it won't be vintage.
Cheers for all the comments folks...
I think I've just got a little itch that needs scratching but it's not too bad yet
I AM going to upgrade the mains cables and will do that before I do anything else.
I WILL get the Apollo and/or the Saturn on a home demo but I feel the Saturn will be overkill for the rest of the system.
I WONT be bothering with a DAC as I like CD's and hate PC/streaming music
I DO need to let my system run in! It's only 2 weeks old tomorrow and it's no where near yet run in (speakers) and burnt in (cables) but I feel that the mains cables will make a difference as they have done in prior systems!
I think I've just got a little itch that needs scratching but it's not too bad yet
I AM going to upgrade the mains cables and will do that before I do anything else.
I WILL get the Apollo and/or the Saturn on a home demo but I feel the Saturn will be overkill for the rest of the system.
I WONT be bothering with a DAC as I like CD's and hate PC/streaming music
I DO need to let my system run in! It's only 2 weeks old tomorrow and it's no where near yet run in (speakers) and burnt in (cables) but I feel that the mains cables will make a difference as they have done in prior systems!
plastic penguin
Well-known member
d_a_n1979:Cheers for all the comments folks... I think I've just got a little itch that needs scratching but it's not too bad yet
I AM going to upgrade the mains cables and will do that before I do anything else. I WILL get the Apollo and/or the Saturn on a home demo but I feel the Saturn will be overkill for the rest of the system. I WONT be bothering with a DAC as I like CD's and hate PC/streaming music
I DO need to let my system run in! It's only 2 weeks old tomorrow and it's no where near yet run in (speakers) and burnt in (cables) but I feel that the mains cables will make a difference as they have done in prior systems!
Given the fact you've only had the Nads for two weeks (your own words) and already thinking of upgrading is, to me, unthinkable. At least give yourself time - two to three months at least - before thinking about upgrading.
The longer I'm on this forum the more I believe either I'm one of the most contented with my system or...crazy?....
Given the fact you've only had the Nads for two weeks (your own words) and already thinking of upgrading is, to me, unthinkable. At least give yourself time - two to three months at least - before thinking about upgrading.
The longer I'm on this forum the more I believe either I'm one of the most contented with my system or...crazy?....
plastic penguin:
d_a_n1979:Cheers for all the comments folks... I think I've just got a little itch that needs scratching but it's not too bad yet
I AM going to upgrade the mains cables and will do that before I do anything else. I WILL get the Apollo and/or the Saturn on a home demo but I feel the Saturn will be overkill for the rest of the system. I WONT be bothering with a DAC as I like CD's and hate PC/streaming music
I DO need to let my system run in! It's only 2 weeks old tomorrow and it's no where near yet run in (speakers) and burnt in (cables) but I feel that the mains cables will make a difference as they have done in prior systems!
Given the fact you've only had the Nads for two weeks (your own words) and already thinking of upgrading is, to me, unthinkable. At least give yourself time - two to three months at least - before thinking about upgrading.
The longer I'm on this forum the more I believe either I'm one of the most contented with my system or...crazy?....
Makes two of us. Even after a recent re-aquaintace with an expensive system which, in my place at least, was not really a great improvement. Constantly listening to/buying new music and am puzzled too sometimes by the issues some members have ...
d_a_n1979:Cheers for all the comments folks... I think I've just got a little itch that needs scratching but it's not too bad yet
Given the fact you've only had the Nads for two weeks (your own words) and already thinking of upgrading is, to me, unthinkable. At least give yourself time - two to three months at least - before thinking about upgrading.
The longer I'm on this forum the more I believe either I'm one of the most contented with my system or...crazy?....
Makes two of us. Even after a recent re-aquaintace with an expensive system which, in my place at least, was not really a great improvement. Constantly listening to/buying new music and am puzzled too sometimes by the issues some members have ...
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram