Record players are getting better, it just isn't obvious

[What Hi-Fi?]

Record players are getting better all the time, it is just hard to notice.

Record players are getting better, it just isn't obvious : Read more

 

[mr_sneff]

"The extremes of this approach take a standard LP12 package from something that starts below £4000 to a top-end variant that costs more than six times as much, with a performance increase to match." Six times as good.......really?

 

[Ian AV]

There's one thing that has clearly changed about the LP12 since the seventies, the price. In 1974 the LP12 was £80, that would be less than £750 today. I'd love to see a strip down of a 1974 version and 2024 to see where the extra cost has gone.

 

[Rui]

i´ve tested some turntables but not that much under 3.000€ ,Linn used to have good turntables but some over 4.000€ are good but i have to say that older turntables such as Technics and Thorens ,
70´s and 90´s were very good ,

in my opinion superior to the P10 from Rega with the Alpheta 3 ,with a improved cartridge from Hana ,the Umami red (maybe one of the best i heard at this price range) it reveals a deeper sound keping high´s to a very good level, this compared to the SL-1000MKII and the TD-2001 with original MC cartridges first from technics MC type and Ortofon MC type, that in reality are above in sound quality

also the REGA P10 is for sure a great turntable but not above older expensive models ,also heard the Pro-ject Xtension 10 with a Sumiko pearwood celebration III(new cartridge assembled), and it sure sounds very good .

In lower ranges i don´t know any that can be considered a good turntable for many reasons ,mainly it´s sound quality and functions very simple as it is possible, this never using a pre-amplifier as phono inputs are very good , in older integrated ampfiers with capability of having the correct specifications in it´s inputs already improved to MC type cartridges.

There were very good turntables in the price range of what today is 3.000€ before the 2000´s , i can´t refer many other models as i can´t compare them with older ones or from a point up they are very good,
but in average quality i found them weak and i would never buy them for me .

In a early 90´s Technics sold very cheap turntables for prices that today are less than a 100€ not just one model but also belt-driven with stroboscope and very good AT cartridges cheap but superior by a lot compared to knew ones from AT at a lower reference .

I have to say they are far superior to any Pro-Ject at 1.000€ level or around it(i refer a lot the Pro-Ject brand as i have access to most of it´s models.

All my life i heard music using old turntables since late 60´s models , fromThorens , Pioneer and Dual, they still are very good in sound quality also still using old cartridges as i have many still to open , stylus from AT , Shure and Pioneer, for the older the older turntables and cartridges.

I have as an example a M70B from shure that i never liked it but compared to the 2Mred from Ortofon is for sure a lot better ,

even the PC-30 /PN-30 from Pioneer sounds a lot better, not equal to the PN-50 stylus as they if used with a PC-30 cartridge they end up destroying the cartridge as it size is a litle bigger than the PC-30 in a Pioneer PL-ES from 74,
i thought it was a starter turntable but recentelly having access to a brochure made at the time ,it shows how better it is in construction and sound quality compared to the PL-15D(same arm) , but i have a late 60´s model the PL-43, that using it´s original cartridge and stylus sounds very good also, and never needed a pre-amplifier

In the past MM cartridges had a loud sound ,only MC type ones had the need of a pre-amplifier , but today the MM high output have incredible low volume, such as the 2M Black and the Grado prsteige III Gold

Bought also a Cadenza BLack (mc) for a Pioneer P3 from late 70´s which sounds very good but either than the MC pre-amplifier i have to use the tape monitor with a cassette deck or MD deck both high-end from Pioneer in source to use also the rec level knob as volume to put it in a regular aceptable level, but sounds amazing good with it

About the still sold Technics SL-1200 , having bought two 79 MKII , i can say that all models that came after were worst built and new ones today are not half the quality in sound to the old MKII, as the SL-1000R who was advertised as being a improving model from the SL-1000MKII also 79 released ,

isn´t better but while comparing both with new and old amplifier and speakers the SL-1000 MKII is so much better that no matter how you heard them the 79 one is far superior,

also have to say that a turntable doesn´t only spin records but i understand it as some already expensive turntables around 1.000€ are ridiculous cheap built and reduced to bits of plastic if not assembled or MDF as it doesn´t seem what i know as being MDF material, that i have worked a lot with it for other reasons than audio hi-fi, in substitution of compressed wood bits, sheets or plaques.

To end i want to refer that no new model sounds better than old good turntables at the same price range,

also not refer desiners turntables as they are good but very expensive ,50.000€ with a good cartridge are not the most expensive as there are good ones at lower prices like 15.000€

 

[Jasonovich]

"The extremes of this approach take a standard LP12 package from something that starts below £4000 to a top-end variant that costs more than six times as much, with a performance increase to match." Six times as good.......really?

There is quite a bit of vapour and clever marketing, having got the rant out of the way, it is a great turntable that has etched into our psyche, it was the benchmark for others to follow until they became almost irrelevant. The sponsors had new toys to promote.

It's still a turntable though, can't walk across the surface of the water or turn rock into bread. It has the same physical demands as cheaper turntables, it cuts into the groove and makes a lot of noise.

I wouldn't pay the asking price, I rather settle for the cheaper Rega or Project or one of the other alternatives, it's perceived sonic advantages are possibly lost to the average listener.

 

[Rui]

There is quite a bit of vapour and clever marketing, having got the rant out of the way, it is a great turntable that has etched into our psyche, it was the benchmark for others to follow until they became almost irrelevant. The sponsors had new toys to promote.

It's still a turntable though, can't walk across the surface of the water or turn rock into bread. It has the same physical demands as cheaper turntables, it cuts into the groove and makes a lot of noise.

I wouldn't pay the asking price, I rather settle for the cheaper Rega or Project or one of the other alternatives, it's perceived sonic advantages are possibly lost to the average listener.

i just want to say that the projects till 2000€ including a better cartridge are at a very old turntables level and cheaper ones only instead of made with good materials seem only bit´s of plastic joined like a Lego,

so new are from somewhere in the past that i can´t refer the year as i haven´t seen at this price range a so badly built turntable,

Flunace is maybe the best of this new wave of vinyl readers as they are far from being a turntable, Rega there are good but expensive,

there´s Linn but also expensive, and so on,

well everybody when starting should buy a less expensive turntable from the 80´s or 70´s in preference, than after some years buy a new one but compare them first,

now also every one needs a pre-amp for any new device i even heard headphones amplifiers are being sold , what is the matter with modern amplifiers that they can´t give power to a set of headphones, here in what hi-fi i notice some components that do have a good quality but the price is not for all ,

as some ELAC speakers that sound great also some Marantz amplifiers , Technics receivers(technics tower speakers do sound very good if not the cheapest ones) or even Burmester amplifiers if expensive is what is looked for,

as the B&W 803 new model and Yamaha receivers seemed very good and the SL-1500C is for sure a good turntable from Technics if with a improved cartridge,

even a new very simple turntable the Vertere Acoustics MG-1 MKII that sings perfect, as the Rega Naia or P10 are excelent but price wise are too expensive, it should cost much less to justify it´s quality .

i think it´s this way because they have not the production of big brands like Sony or Pioneer if it still exists, i´m in doubt