Re-post - Sound advice... Am I getting the best from my kit?

[admin_exported]

Hi all,

Woah, first ever forum post, ever... Nerves out the way, here goes...

I inherited a hi-fi system from a late friend last year. In his memory I wish to milk every last drop of quality from the kit. I understand that 'quality' is in some regards down to personal taste, but I'll try anyway... As follows..

Rega Mira amp, bought in 2004 I believe
Rega Planet CD Player
Dynaudio Audience 62 floor-standers
QED XT-350 speaker cable
Van den Hul, D-102 Mk III Hybrid interconnect
QED Qonduit mains power cable to the CD player, standard mains wire to the amp.

Room size - (WidthxLengthxHeight) 3.5m x 5.5m by 3m. Speakers sit 55cm from short wall (Width) and side walls.

I like the sound very much, especially at high volume, but sometimes I can't help but think the bass is not controlled enough, and mid-range can sometimes feel flat with rock music and complex arrangements.

Can anyone think of a place to investigate? Or am I nit-picking? Could more mains conditioning improve things? I have tried speaker positioning, whihc improves things a little.

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers,

 

[Tear Drop]

First thing to look at would be the amp - I doubt it is up to properly driving the Dynaudios, since they relish an amp which can supply plenty of current. After that (or at the same time) make sure you get a quality mains lead for your amp as that will improves things again, then look at mains filtering/conditioning to really make your system sing.

 

[Terryff]

.....If you believe that mains leads/conditioning make a jot of difference.

 

[Tear Drop]

Terryff:.....If you believe that mains leads/conditioning make a jot of difference.

It's not a question of belief I'm afraid.

 

[Anonymous]

Agree with Tear Drop, also clean the plugs, remove oxidization off everything, check / clean / replace fuses with 13A ones.

Plug the Amp into its own 13A socket with a decent Mains lead. (60 day money back trial)

Sit down and enjoy the music!

 

[Craig M.]

Tear Drop:Terryff:.....If you believe that mains leads/conditioning make a jot of difference.

It's not a question of belief I'm afraid.

i recently got a mains filter, can't hear any difference! maybe my mains isn't so bad. change your amp or speakers. i'd say speakers unless you want to spend quite a bit getting something to drive those dyn's properly.

 

[idc]

Hi Rusty. Did you get any change from ensuring ventilation about the amp? With regards to changing the mains cable, I found that with a Russ Andrews Yello mains cable (their cheapest and no longer available new) it made no difference at all. I did find a difference when I put the kit on a decent stand, the sound opened up more and was slightly less flat. If none of these tweeks work then you need to start auditioning new kit and although it pains me as I really liked the Mira amp, I would start there.

 

[Anonymous]

Trevor, I'm probably being thick here, but..... My amp has a power lead terminated by a 13A plug. The manufacturer tells me in the manual that if I need to replace the plug, it needs to have a 5A fuse installed in the replacement.

My questions is: Why change the 5A fuse for a 13A one? And what are the risks in doing so?

Thanks for your answer in advance.

 

[Anonymous]

Hi, it is down to how easy the current flows through the fuses. The smaller the value the slower the flow.
Fuses (along with other things) make music sound thin, woolly and harsh, I much prefer to use circuit breakers which don't restrict the flow wherever possible.

I use 13A fuses and not lower values as it gives a better flow rate through the plug. The fuse will blow anyway if there is a short in the Plug or wire, which is all that it is protecting.

It is regarded by many Audiophiles that the best plugs and sockets are the old round pin 15Amp ones which didn't have fuses in at all.

However they do not comply with today's regulations.

 

[Anonymous]

If there isn't enough bass control you need to upgrade the amp.

Dynaudio loudspeakers can be boomy. Try a Krell, Plinius, AVI Lab Series, MF KW, or similar.

A mains cable won't do anything... yawn.

 

[Anonymous]

The Rega Mira amp is well built and has a conservative rating of 60 wpc.

You have everything to gain and nothing to lose by auditioning some decent Mains cables on approval and cleaning Earth points and contacts etc.

Then let your Ears decide how pleasurable (or not) the music is.
I appreciate the attachment you have to this system by your 1st post.

 

[Craig M.]

trevor79:I appreciate the attachment you have to this system by your 1st post.

well noted trevor, i missed this somewhat. you've nothing to lose by auditioning some powerleads. would it be possible to turn your livingroom round 90 degrees? so you're listening down the length rather then the width? if your seat is against the rear wall, try pulling it out a foot or so. i don't know anything about your speaker cable, but apparently qed saxt(?) sounds a bit lean. my dyn's are 55cm from the rear wall but a lot further from side walls as even within a metre of the corner the bass starts getting boomy.

another thought would be some type of room treatment. broadband absorbers can be had quite cheap from GIK accoustics europe. these may help remove excess bass frequencies.

 

[Anonymous]

Don't waste your money on cables.

And no, Trev, a 60 watt amplifier cannot drive a 4ohm/86dB Dynaudio floorstander.

 

[Anonymous]

Eddie Pound:
Don't waste your money on cables.

And no, Trev, a 60 watt amplifier cannot drive a 4ohm/86dB Dynaudio floorstander.

I'd second that too. The Dyns are notorious for requiring lots of amplification and sadly the Mira doesn't have enough to make the most of these excellent speakers.

My experience with mains cables has been that they can improve on detail and background noise, mainly through being better shielded and introducing less interference to the rest of the system but I can't see any mains cable or fuse giving you well controlled bass.

 

[Anonymous]

How little you guys know.

Whilst I agree it would be nice to have more headroom driving the Dyns, it is more down to the size of the reservoir capacitors and the recharging rate of them.
Also the stability of the AC/DC supply will have huge sound implications on the speakers.

Given the system I would have no problems making it sing with a few tweaks.

Grimaldi, your system has great potential. Out of the box it is OK but it could be so much more!

 

[Anonymous]

I do use a basic Tacima mains conditioner as at £30 its a no brainer really. And each of my 6 boxes uses some home made mains leads (belden 19364 shielded, includes a drain wire + silver plated IEC connectors and silver plated toughplugs including fuses + TDK ferrite cores, all nicely finished with heat shrink).

I think these tweaks have their place but they are just that. I certainly enjoyed putting the leads together and sourcing the components and I now have custom made mains leads that are exactly the length I need them to be and no more to avoid cable clutter. In my system they have increased the level of detail and reduced background interference but they are not a replacement for the monos if you know what I mean.

I heard the Dyn Audience 42s with the Cyrus 8VS2 when I was auditioning speakers and the 8VS2 simply could not get a grip on the bass that the Dyns were capable of - it sounded unruly. I opted for the Spendors as these were easily driven by the 8VS2.

 

[Anonymous]

If I may make a few suggestions.

With your system the Tacima will strangle the current demands the PSX-R's needs to be fed when extended.
If you are able plug each unit into its own 13A socket on the 20a ring main, this will give it a more stable feed. Your PSX Transformer / Caps do a good job anyway of smoothing out the Mains supply.

Your Mono's will give a much more defined / detailed musical presentation and your cables certainly aid reducing the noise floor.

If you can lay your hands on a couple of BT 500va units you will be amazed at the approaching high end sound you will hear.

To go further you need to replace the poor quality diode bridges in the PSX's and by-pass the Caps with good polys, also replacing the internal wiring with Kimber wire and fitting circuit breakers will give an effortless musical power delivery.

The Spendors (excellent design) can be taken to much higher levels of musicality by fitting high end caps on the cross overs which will make them as good as probably anything you have ever heard.

Have done these mods many years ago on Cyrus/Rogers, it may surprise you that my current developed system sounds even better.

 

[Anonymous]

The Rega Mira amp goes well with Rega's R3 and R5 speakers where a little amp bass warmth works well to balance the sound. Dynaudios scare me. They have huge magnets that hold a lot of current. They need a rocket up them, just as stated earlier in this post. For those you're probably going to need something like the following to hear them work well:

Musical Fidelity A5 or A5.5
Musical Fidelity KW anything
AVI Lab Series Integrated
Quad 909 power
Leema Tucana

Think BIG toroidal PSU, think grip, think tight. You might find it cheaper to sell the Dyns and buy some Rega R5 speakers

 

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the advice, all of which is quite useful and has given me some ideas. But, as Trevor79 noted, I am not even considering parting with any of my current kit, due to sentimental reasons stated in my original post. I am asking what I can do to maximise what I have. I am not at all ungrateful, by any means, for any of the responses but for my requirements the advice may be mis-directed in some cases.

I have read that the Rega will output upwards of 90W p/c into 4ohm speakers, due to the reduced resistance?? At low volumes it struggles a little, I admit, but once the volume is up around '10pm' and beyond, things get much more enjoyable!

I'll try some room setup changes and moving speakers further from side walls. Then I may try to sample some mains power solutions. I did notice a big difference when I upgraded the mains cable to the CD player...

I haven't raised the amp off the shelf yet to give more air to the fins, will try soon though. The amp doesn't live on a dediacted hi-fi rack yet, either; it lives in a large and heavy TV stand, on a big glass shelf under my old CRT TV, and on another glass shelf under that is the CD-player. They are fairly well ventilated already.

Thanks again for all your advice, but please bear in mind I am not in the market for new equipment.

Many thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

I have found some of the advice about mains very useful. Whilst I haven't yet bitten the bullet and done something about mains cables, I have experimented with my Tacima.

I find my system sounds best if i put the CD player on the Tacima, as it appears to enhance the detail. However, the system sounds even better if I plug the amp directly into the wall. I replaced the plug on the amp lead with a surge plug I got for £7 or £8 from Farnell, for peace of mind.

 

[Anonymous]

Trevor79, I am reluctant to modify any expensive equipment as don't want to affect its resale values.

I also can't see how a PSX-R can ever get extended when its powering part of a pre-amp and part of a CD player - in both cases low and constant power demand.

re the OP perhaps some MF superchargers placed between the amp and the speakers could solve the low power problem without changing anything with the rest of the system - not a cheap solution though

 

[Anonymous]

I understand your point, however I don't really care about 2nd hand values as I have never ever sold anything on!

MF superchargers are doing a similar thing in so far as they are putting meat on and expanding a weaker source, like the PSX units do. Still a massive room for improvement to be had.

The current demands of music are not constant and are not low, in a ideal situation 500WPC with 60,000uf reservoir capacitance per channel, by passed with a pure mains feed will be getting on the money!

Read through the specs sheets and try to find anything at any price that comes close to that, then look at what your system puts out and weep.
HiFi is like wine in so far as very few people have experienced high end quality.

PS.. the Spendors fitted with decent crossovers are capable of taking on just about anything. Hairs on the back of your neck performance, especially with Opera and Classical (uncompressed music).

 

[Anonymous]

In my case the PSX-Rs are providing a constant DC current with minimum interference acting like a big reliable battery i.e. its nothing to do with current throughput or reserves of power for extra punch.

The current demands of music are not constant but are typically low (under 1W is the value typically quoted) so the extra power is only really needed to cope with peaks in the music which are not constant. I fail to see how my monos with 150W constant and 1500W burst power would make me weep.

And haven't you just contradicted yourself when you claimed that the Rega amp was fine to drive the Dyns because they were rated as 70W?

I also struggle to see how you know how to make the Spendors take on just about anything but Spendor themselves don't. Many companies cut back on certain components but for such a dramatic increase in performance I am sure they would sacrifice 2% of their margin! Spendor may use different caps in certain of their speakers to reduce colouration but I like the Spendors for their signature sound which marries well with Cyrus - if I wanted studio monitors I would have gotten some. I think my Spendors are limited more by their size and ability to go lower than the crossover - I wish I could have had a larger model but I have no room (or more accurately, SWMBO thinks anything bigger would be too big).

What is your system and what tweaks have you made?

 

[Anonymous]

It is not easy to explain the knowledge I have gained over the last 35 years without writing a book.

I am familiar with Cyrus having owned and modified, have various circuit diagrams on them. Had very good results, so much so that they were almost as musical as a re built / customized Quad 33/303!

The PSX units have 2 x 30,000uf caps per channel which on bass hungry music will quickly be depleted with detail, timing, sound staging disappearing out of the window.
What is key is the refresh rate which is governed by the speed and quality of the diode bridge, current feed. In addition to that the noise floor and purity, stability on both rails has great bearing on the pre-amp section.

My previous reply to a posters question Re the Rega/Dyns situation was based on him not wanting to change the combination due to the sentimental value he has for it, but look to get the best out of it.
The Rega Amps output is regarded as much higher than is stated, also they have a reputation of being able to drive difficult loads well. Whilst I haven't personally heard them I do know the clear benefits of introducing a clean, stable mains supply will bring. The suggestion of auditioning cables and cleaning contacts will help bring the best out of the system.

My current set up is in my signature, the mods made are extensive starting from the meter and going down the chain to the speaker crossovers and room acoustics.

What I have ended up with is a full class A 7x200w amp having no negative interaction with the Pre-Amp section, fully mapped, sending the music (signal) to speakers with custom crossover units.

Oh must give credit to the sub for its seamless duties it performs as well.

Am away now for a couple of days, will catch up with you later.

All the best.

 

[aliEnRIK]

Septicman:

I have found some of the advice about mains very useful. Whilst I haven't yet bitten the bullet and done something about mains cables, I have experimented with my Tacima.

I find my system sounds best if i put the CD player on the Tacima, as it appears to enhance the detail. However, the system sounds even better if I plug the amp directly into the wall. I replaced the plug on the amp lead with a surge plug I got for £7 or £8 from Farnell, for peace of mind.

Ive found the tacima is no good for amps too. But you really should look at upgrading the mains cable on your amp (And removing the surge plug)